# Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 17, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527 "2007-04-17T21:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 113
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2241 "2007-06-07T00:53:05Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] **BlasterMaster** ’s vote oddly stands out, since he picks [the flimsiest of possible explanations](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8597331&postcount=1738) (given other reasoning) to vote for **Lemur866** [/QUOTE] It’s little slips like that that matter the most. Obviously, I wason’t the first to point that out. However, I did notice it as I was reading through and catching up. When I see things like that that I want to respond to, I open a response in a new tab, and keep going. By the time I had caught up and was ready to call him out on it, tirial had already done so, and thus it was pointless. I had spent a large amount of the day defending myself against **tirial** ’s ludicrous onslaught and had lost track that I had not yet voted. Also at that point, while I was very suspicious of **SCL** , I was beginning to think it was a town vs. town thing between her and **Idle** and, hence, I voted where I felt was a safer vote in what I viewed as a massive slip (akin to what got **nesta** killed in M2). Still, I don’t understand this idea that all scum must have voted for scum. As I told **Hal** , this is running on the assumption that the scum are stupid and aren’t aware of such an obvious pattern. ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2242 "2007-06-07T02:16:33Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] Wonderful. 2200+ posts, and I’m getting thrown up for a lynch on “gut feeling”. Seriously, what I have done that’s drawing so much suspicion? [/QUOTE] It’s not just a gut feeling, it’s your voting record. Those two factors, together. Unfortunately, voting record is not enough to go on on its own. Hours of creating and studying the spreadsheet have taught me that. But gut feelings have taken me down the wrong road too. When it really comes down to it, I have yet to be right about anyone except for\*\* fluiddruid\*\*. And that vote was pretty much a bandwagon. I’m going to be right sooner or later, and I have to use both intuition **and** fact. This is the closest I’ve come so far, and it’s pointed me to you. Also, I want you to do one thing for me, if you want to show me you’re helping the town: Who do you think should be lynched today? Give me a sincere answer, not a strategic one. (What I mean by that is that, for example, you can say **Diggit** , but you can’t say him just because he’s the most likely other candidate right now.) Be transparent. Tell us who you think the real enemy is. Let us pick you brain a little. That will help us a whole lot right now. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2243 "2007-06-07T02:20:47Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] **It’s little slips like that that matter the most**. Obviously, I wason’t the first to point that out. However, I did notice it as I was reading through and catching up. When I see things like that that I want to respond to, I open a response in a new tab, and keep going. By the time I had caught up and was ready to call him out on it, tirial had already done so, and thus it was pointless. I had spent a large amount of the day defending myself against **tirial** ’s ludicrous onslaught and had lost track that I had not yet voted. Also at that point, while I was very suspicious of **SCL** , I was beginning to think it was a town vs. town thing between her and **Idle** and, hence, I voted where I felt was a safer vote in what I viewed as a massive slip (akin to what got **nesta** killed in M2). Still, I don’t understand this idea that all scum must have voted for scum. As I told **Hal** , this is running on the assumption that the scum are stupid and aren’t aware of such an obvious pattern. [/QUOTE] (bolding mine). Sure about that? Just about everyone else isn’t. When CaerieD (one of Mafia2, by the way, pointed out a similar instance, during this very [game](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8527888&postcount=969))… and just about everyone and their children jumped down her throat for that (last, but not least, the infractor during Mafia 2 [himself](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8528834&postcount=977) ) Second: Have you looked at day 6? Not only did \*\*Rachm \*\*(_known scum_ ™) vote for his teammate **Lemur866** at a stage where it made no sense to do so, but of the 7 people still in the game, 4 voted for him. Granted, both remaining scum might conceivably be among those 3 ( **Hal** , **Millit** and **Cookies** ) but it’s odds on that at least 1 scum is hiding are hiding among the lynchers of **Lemur866**. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2244 "2007-06-07T02:23:01Z")
Let me correct my last post: Sure about that? Just about everyone else isn’t. When CaerieD (one of Mafia2, by the way), pointed out a similar instance, during this very game…just about everyone and their children jumped down her throat for that (last, but not least, the infractor during Mafia 2 himself ) ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2245 "2007-06-07T03:22:23Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Let me correct my last post: Sure about that? Just about everyone else isn’t. When CaerieD (one of Mafia2, by the way), pointed out a similar instance, during this very game…just about everyone and their children jumped down her throat for that (last, but not least, the infractor during Mafia 2 himself ) [/QUOTE] And if memory serves, at least one person called out that it was “interesting” or "suspicios " (or something like that) of me to suggest that trying to pawn such use of slang as compelling evidence was assanine. So it has been going both ways. My perspective on the issue hasn’t really changed since then, for the record ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2246 "2007-06-07T05:47:29Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] And I asked you a question yesterday which you haven’t answered yet: Why didn’t you disclose your identity to town far earlier? \ And, like I said from Day One: The main advantage scum has over town is knowledge. By not breaking your already flimsy cover you were helping scum, since you were concealing information from (some? few?) townies. [/QUOTE] And if I had disclosed it you and Lemur866 would have made a very strong attempt to lynch me instantly simply for being the doctor. You made it impossible for me to roleclaim on two grounds: a) I knew I hadn’t been recruited, so the lynch would have been wasted. b) The other advantage the town has is that in practice one townie can’t be nightkilled. Should I have ignored both of these so that two players I thought were scum could have got me lynched? If I had, would we have got **Rachm Qoch** and **lemur866**? (The answer is that it seems unlikely). ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2247 "2007-06-07T15:08:52Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] (snipped) Should I have ignored both of these so that two players I thought were scum could have got me lynched? If I had, would we have got **Rachm Qoch** and **lemur866**? (The answer is that it seems unlikely). [/QUOTE] Let me get this straight: you don’t believe the **lemur866** was a setup? I’d love to hear your take on lynch. Also: for the record, I don’t think you had me on your suspicion list before my disclosure of your role yesterday > [@tirial](#): > > Idle Thoughts sorry to see you go - you definitely made the game more interesting. and alas zuma we hardly knew you. > > **Great. My top two suspects for today gone, and both were town.** I need to do some reading. There are cases against everyone here: > > Hal Briston, nesta and Millet have stayed somewhat under the radar. nesta and Hal had a set-to, but as no one else seemed to get involved it didn’t go anywhere. Millet’s spreadsheet could be a trick by a scum to look town, but if so she’s been remarkably honest (and it would be a brilliant play if you are). > > Blastermaster could still be scum, on the grounds I mentioned before (Day one and three vote for a start). Rachm could have been scum using CaerieD as cover. > Diggit would have looked like scum, if SCl had been scum as he defended her. However, this also works in reverse: a scum could defend a townie knowing that it would make him look more like town. I spent yesterday going after Idle Thoughts because I thought he’d been recruited, but he’s now confirmed town which makes me look scummy. (bolding mine) so I don’t think your rationalization applies. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2248 "2007-06-07T17:40:14Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Let me get this straight: you don’t believe the **lemur866** was a setup? I’d love to hear your take on lynch. [/QUOTE] Not really - I think rachm wasn’t expecting so many people to agree, but once they did changing his vote would be suicide. However if it was, then as Millet says it would get _“Rachm off the hook (this worked on me), and possibly also Diggit, nesta and tirial”_. Oh look. Your name is there, Blastermaster’s isn’t. As for you not being on my scum list, please re-read the part of my post you quoted (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > Diggit would have looked like scum, if SCL had been scum as he defended her. However, this also works in reverse: **a scum could defend a townie knowing that it would make him look more like town.** Now spot what I thought occurred. Scum (you) defended townie (SCL). And note the three I named, \*\*Rachm, Diggit and Blastermaster \*\* - guess what my second tier suspect list was? By the way, I didn’t notice you saying anything about my role - I noticed **Blastermaster** being reasonable, and Millet who needed information (although I thought she’d guessed). Now my notes are too long to post easily, but in summary of major points: Now against **blastermaster** I have[ul] [li]Voted percypercy Day One[/li][li]Voted projammer day 3 getting fluiddruid off[/li][li]Thought I was recuited[/li][/ul] In his favour [li] was nearly lynched instead of Rachm. As the mafia knew I wouldn’t drop the case against them, it makes little sense at this late stage to try and get a different mafia lynched.[/li] Against you I have: [ul] [li]worked with Lemur866 to try to convince the town to lynch the doctor if they claimed.[/li][li]Voted against Rachm Qoch being lynched yesterday.[/li][li]Voted Blastermaster with Rachm.[/li][li]Misrepresented an Idle-tirial-Diggit exchange that never happened.[/li][li]coin toss comment.[/li][/ul] Pointers: If the Lemur866 vote was a setup, then you just added another pointer to yourself. If the analysis of my list and Idle’s post I posted earlier was correct, you and possbliy Blastermaster come off as somewhat scummy. My current scum suspects are 1. Diggit 2. Blastermaster So I have voted for my number one suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2249 "2007-06-07T17:40:53Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] I’m not going to bother defending myself to you anymore,… [/QUOTE] Ohhh, _there’s_ where the confusion lies – I’m not asking you to _defend yourself_, I’m asking help build your own scaffolding. I mean if I was in your position, and I said something like “The sentence after you accuse me, you contradict yourself”, well, I guess I wouldn’t be happy about being called on it either. 'Cause really, it should be such a simple thing – a contradiction is pretty black and white – either I contradicted myself or I didn’t. Hell, it’s certainly no secret that I’m good for making a few mistakes in these games, so for the sake of argument let’s say I _did_ contradict myself. All I’m asking for here is for you to point out where I did so… ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2007, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2250 "2007-06-07T18:11:11Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] Not really - I think rachm wasn’t expecting so many people to agree, but once they did changing his vote would be suicide. However if it was, then as Millet says it would get _“Rachm off the hook (this worked on me), and possibly also Diggit, nesta and tirial”_. Oh look. Your name is there, Blastermaster’s isn’t. [/quote] … and in the next comment I called her on it, and in the next comment she corrected that… > [@tirial](#): > > As for you not being on my scum list, please re-read the part of my post you quoted (bolding mine): > > Now spot what I thought occurred. Scum (you) defended townie (SCL). And note the three I named, \*\*Rachm, Diggit and Blastermaster \*\* - guess what my second tier suspect list was? Why do you think I bolded the part I did? Before that night, your top two suspects were, apparently, **zuma** and **Idle Thoughts**. And I wasn’t questioning the origin of your suspicions about me. I was questioning the moment where you started suspecting me. Because you used it to justify your role-non-disclosure. > [@tirial](#): > > Against you I have: > [ul] > [li]worked with Lemur866 to try to convince the town to lynch the doctor if they claimed.[/li][li]Voted against Rachm Qoch being lynched yesterday.[/li][li]Voted Blastermaster with Rachm.[/li][li]Misrepresented an Idle-tirial-Diggit exchange that never happened.[/li][li]coin toss comment.[/li][/ul] > Pointers: > If the Lemur866 vote was a setup, then you just added another pointer to yourself. > (snip) I have asked you before, and I’ll ask you again: how would you have reacted in the position of a townie not only spotting the Doctor because of one of her posts but also catching a double no-kill-night? The second point… it’s true. I didn’t catch **Rachm** ’s scumminess. And I’m not the only one who didn’t. The third one. Look. I conflated in my mind two separate conversations. I make mistakes. I’m sure you make them too. The last one. Look. I make mistakes. I’m sure you make them too. What kind of strategy would that “coin toss comment” make, anyhow? Try to confuse \*\*Gadarene \*\* so he did what… exactly? Since this is a game, I was trying to prevent an apparent mistake on the side of the ref. ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2251 "2007-06-08T13:08:07Z")
This needs a bump. We have about 32 hours to go–any new votes? ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2252 "2007-06-08T14:10:56Z")
Yeah, gotta get this moving again. Just to bring us up to date, the (unofficial) vote count stands at: 2 – **Blaster Master** (Hal Briston, Millit the Frail) 1 – **DiggitCamara** (tirial) ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2253 "2007-06-08T16:58:31Z")
Well, I didn’t want to vote this early, already, but it seems we won’t get much participation out of **nesta** , for now. So, maybe this will stir things up again a bit. I’ll vote for **Blaster Master**. **Hal** ’s reasoning resonates quite a bit with mine (I had been putting him on my suspicious people list for a couple of days now, after all). ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2254 "2007-06-08T17:11:37Z")
It’s been awhile since I’ve checked how we handle it – four votes would end the day, after a grace period of some sort, right? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2255 "2007-06-08T17:12:30Z")
Yup. Of eight hours, I believe. Something y’all haven’t come within shouting distance of all game. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2256 "2007-06-08T17:13:45Z")
Never mind, found it…after four votes, the target gets a 12-hour defense period. If still the leader at that time, then they’re lynched. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2257 "2007-06-08T17:14:47Z")
Bwuh? Eight? My rule sheet printout says 12. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2258 "2007-06-08T17:26:53Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Bwuh? Eight? My rule sheet printout says 12. [/QUOTE] He probably saw how stubborn we are and decided we didn’t need 12 hours, since nothing was going to change our collective minds anyway. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2259 "2007-06-08T17:40:01Z")
'Eh, 12, 8, whichever…_(on preview – heh, too true…of course, changing at least one mind is the main point of the rest of my post)_… Anyway… So, that’s three against **Blaster** , one against **Diggit** , with three votes left uncast. Assuming that neither **Diggit** , **Millet** nor myself switch, that would mean that **Blaster** , **Cookies** and **nesta** would have to unanimously vote for **Diggit** in order to save **Blaster**. It’s safe to say that **Blaster** would prefer the latter plan, meaning **Cookies** and **nesta** (both of whom have made known their suspicions of **Diggit** ) would have to go along with with that to prevent **Blaster** ’s lynching. I’ll do all the digging I need to in order to try and find something that may convince one of you two ( **Cookies** or **nesta** ) of either **Blaster** ’s guilt or **Diggit** ’s innocence, but let me start by offering up this one – help with this, and if I’m wrong, I’ll personally walk headlong right into that noose tomorrow. No arguements, no fighting…I feel so strongly about this one, that I’ll happily lay my own neck on the line here. ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2260 "2007-06-08T19:09:49Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] I’ll do all the digging I need to in order to try and find something that may convince one of you two ( **Cookies** or **nesta** ) of either **Blaster** ’s guilt or **Diggit** ’s innocence, but let me start by offering up this one – help with this, and if I’m wrong, I’ll personally walk headlong right into that noose tomorrow. No arguements, no fighting…I feel so strongly about this one, that I’ll happily lay my own neck on the line here. [/QUOTE] That’s pretty bold. I don’t know that I’d be willing to go so far, but I can offer up my analysis of **Blaster** from a few days ago. [Link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8593212&postcount=1686) Since then, **Blaster** has: –Not voted on the day of the **SCL** lynch –Voted very late in the day yesterday, for\*\* Rachm Qoch\*\*. Now, not voting is considered a shady thing to do, but on the other side, our repeat non-voting offender turned up town. As for yesterday’s vote…we have so far established that scum will vote for scum sometimes, especially later in the game. Yesterday, if **Blaster** _hadn’t_ voted for \*\*Rachm \*\*after his head had been called for, it would have been a really bad move for him. It might have been a “scared townie” thing, but it also might have been a “Mafia preservation” thing. I really forced him to get his decision in under the wire, no? Let’s look at yesterday. I was in an un-enviable position, not feeling the scum vibe from any of the candidates but being kind of a crucial voter. I decided to take the hard road and vote for **Blaster** because I felt more strongly about him than **Cookies**. I also didn’t see the kind of support for a **Cookies** switch that I did for a **Blaster** switch. (For the record, I’m not feeling the scum vibe from **Cookies** any more.) Also for the record, I now feel like I made a very smart move, though at the time it felt really damn risky and kind of stupid. The vote count was: 3 - Rachm (Hal, Cookies, tirial) 1 - Diggit (nesta) 2 - tirial (Diggit, Rachm) I had voted/unvoted tirial. Only Blaster had yet to make a single vote. I had heard I could possibly count on **Hal** or **nesta** to switch votes to **Blaster,** or **Diggit** to **Cookies**. I figured I could probably get **Rachm** to vote for anyone who might have a chance of taking his place. (This was before I knew he was Mafia, of course.) That would have been 4 of us, enough to seal the deal. Three, however, would not. it was a long shot, as **Blaster** would probably also vote for anyone who seriously opposed him. If either **Blaster** or **Rachm** was Mafia, I figured, they would certainly vote for the other, even if they were both Mafia. (Perhaps especially if they were both Mafia.\*) A head-to-head between them could really teach us something. I voted **Blaster** in Post 2143. The progression: 3 - Rachm (Hal, Cookies, tirial) 1 - Diggit (nesta) 2 - tirial (Diggit, Rachm) 1 - Blaster (Millit) had not voted - Blaster Post 2149 - Diggit doesn’t think he can get tirial to the guillotine, so… 3 - Rachm (Hal, Cookies, tirial) 1 - Diggit (nesta) 1 - tirial (Rachm) 2 - Blaster (Millit, Diggit) had not voted - Blaster That surprised me, because I didn’t see \*\*Diggit \*\*switching ahead of time. It probably surprised **Blaster** too. Before this crucial vote, he likely didn’t think he had a shot at being lynched. Blaster does say he had internet trouble. Fair enough, I won’t accuse anyone of using that as a ploy–that would be waaaaay filthy. 4 - Rachm (Hal, Cookies, tirial, Blaster) 1 - Diggit (nesta) 1 - tirial (Rachm) 2 - Blaster (Millit, Diggit) Post 2160 - Rachm gives no explanation whatsoever–there are only four words in this post. His last, and he pretty much knows it. It’s deadline. 4 - Rachm (Hal, Cookies, tirial, Blaster) 1 - Diggit (nesta) 3 - Blaster (Millit, Diggit, Rachm) It really looks like scum voting for scum to try to throw us off. Back to the point with the (\*): If either of them were on the line but _didn’t_ vote the other, it would look like an attempted save. And who else would they vote for? If they piled on **Diggit** , who had one vote, they might be able to lynch him. However, if they knew **Diggit** would turn up town, it would look really bad…and I now think they both knew that he would. **Blaster** wouldn’t want to vote **tirial** –that whole situation was very messy, and we were all of mixed minds about the underlying motives of anyone casting stones at our doctor-possibly-turned-Mafia. And **Rachm** got his vote off of\*\* tirial \*\*very quickly. Trying to make a save play at the last minute? Nah, blowing a bunch of smoke, trying to have the last word. And if either of them tried to make a case for someone else altogether, so late in the day, well… 1) I already did that. Too late. 2) It looks really, really scummy. And neither of them knew which one would be lynched…but they knew one of them would be, so they couldn’t afford to leave the other one hanging with a last-minute vote that was both in league with a Mafia _and_ for someone who didnt look scummy to anyone else. \*\*Blaster and Rachm \*\*both knew a Mafia was going to die late yesterday. The votes are there. Read them and weep! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=112) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=114)