# Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 17, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527 "2007-04-17T21:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 120
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2381 "2007-06-17T15:57:29Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] (snip) When I realised I couldn’t get you directly as you will ignore arguments you can’t answer, and had carefully managed to get the town to assume I was recruited using Lemur866’s logic, I decided that a one for one trade was fair enough. (snip) [/QUOTE] Two points: 1. I am not aware of “ignoring arguments I can’t answer”. I tried (yesterDay, no less), to be as thorough with direct questions as I could with **nesta** , for instance. I know you won’t, but maybe, just maybe, you could list them? And frankly, I have been stating and re-stating one burning question: **Why did you take quotes of mine out of context to make points I hadn’t made? How can you reconcile that behavior with that of an honest townie?** You have completely ignored that question. 2. I didn’t use “ **Lemur866** ’s logic”. I brought up your possible recruitment in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8567415&postcount=1420) . > [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Well, I probably shouldn’t say this but, anyway, here goes nothing: > > I think I know what happened: > > 1. Scum tried to kill (yesterday) and were blocked > 2. Scum failed to kill. > 3. During the last day we discussed all possibilities > > There it should have ended. However, there was one post (no, I’m not going to point it out yet). And thus the list continues: > > 1. Scum noticed said post and concluded (probably correctly) that the doctor had unwittingly exposed him/herself > 2. Scum took their chance and recruited said poster > > Having said that, I can only hope I guessed incorrectly as to the identity of our ex-doctor (and/or that the mafia made the same guess I made and failed) It was, is, and will remain my logic. Maybe \*\*Lemur866 \*\* borrowed it, maybe **Idle Thoughts** used it, but that makes it no less my logic. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2382 "2007-06-17T17:57:00Z")
Nesta? Hal? Are you out there? ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2383 "2007-06-17T19:30:29Z")
Sorta…just popping in quickly between Father’s Day activities, so I gotta make this quick. I’m still torn between **tirial** and **nesta** , but will keep my vote where it lies. I’m still pretty sure of **Diggit** ’s townliness, and that feeling make me more comfortable with my vote… **tirial** is gunning hard for someone I suspect is town. Hope this falls the right way. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2384 "2007-06-18T05:27:39Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Sorta…just popping in quickly between Father’s Day activities, so I gotta make this quick. I’m still torn between **tirial** and **nesta** , but will keep my vote where it lies. I’m still pretty sure of **Diggit** ’s townliness, and that feeling make me more comfortable with my vote… **tirial** is gunning hard for someone I suspect is town. Hope this falls the right way. [/QUOTE] Hal, when I turn out town for heaven’s sake vote Diggit. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2385 "2007-06-18T05:41:02Z")
Right the recruit - if it happened on the three night no kill streak it was probably **Diggit**. Diggit keeps insisting it must have happened on the three-night-stretch, not the last no-kill night, and only the scum would know if that no kill night was a block not a recruit. However his insistence could be based on the backwards logic that I was recruited and therefore must have been recruited during this period. If it happened on the no-kill night, it strongly looks like **Hal** but he hasn’t posted enough to check this - I have no idea if that could be scummy in itself. I very much doubt it is Cookies or nesta. They tend to follow the flow, and although this may put them under the radar it does mean that the mafia don’t know how they will react when the pressure is turned on, and they don;t have much weight given to them by the town. I’ve got a lot more on Diggit than Hal, but for Diggit to be the recruit he’d have had to be recruited on the three-night-streak, because he’s looked scummy since then. Hal is the most likely recruit or kill target on the no-kill night, as he suddenly started coming off as a leader (and yes I do think the Blastermaster lynch could have been a setup - what better way to establish a new scum as townie?). So I am going to ask one question - if you factor me out as the recruit, what would you think of the choice of these two? ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2386 "2007-06-18T05:49:44Z")
And for f’s sake Cookies Vote me. Unvote Diggit …\*_… **bbbzztt…** _… tap…tap…Is this thing on? This is a party political broadcast on behalf of the Tirial party, the “Doctor you just don’t trust”. Well now you too can have the answers: Have you ever wondered if your Doctor might be a bit scummy? Vote Tirial! Ever wondered how to get a pointer to the last remaining scum in your town? Vote Tirial! Are you scum or mason and want to get rid of that pesky annoyance on the way to world domination? Vote Tirial! Do you dislike outsiders who are late joiners to the game? Vote Tirial! Do you remember who suggested creating a Housing Association? Vote Tirial! And remember kids - every vote matters! So get out there, have your say and VOTE TIRIAL That was the end of the Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the Tirial party. – Of course, if you don’t follow this up by lynching Hal or Diggit I will crawl out of my grave and haunt you. I am beginning to think this town really is too stupid to live. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2387 "2007-06-18T06:22:39Z")
You could’ve still gotten your coin toss if you’d left your vote on Diggit. But if you insist. **Vote tirial**. If I have enough braincells left for another Day, I’ll see what I can make of your death if you turn out to be town. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2388 "2007-06-18T06:23:50Z")
Diggit I am sorry. It appears I may have been wrong. There was one other interesting change in the game, after the last no-kill night. I spent last night re-reading the posts. Hal is suddenly playing with perfect knowledge: > [@](#): > > “if I’m wrong, I’ll personally walk headlong right into that noose tomorrow. No arguements, no fighting…I feel so strongly about this one, that I’ll happily lay my own neck on the line here.” What a risk if he knew that Blastermaster was scum. Sacrifice Blastermaster, establish himself. > [@](#): > > “I’m still pretty sure of Diggit’s townliness, and that feeling make me more comfortable with my vote…tirial is gunning hard for someone I suspect is town. Hope this falls the right way.” Echoes his comment above. Defending another player was an early method of getting a scum off the hook. “Falls the right way” - nicely double edged? > [@](#): > > "My brain says the recruit is tirial, " This at the point when we’ve just had the second no-kill night and both Diggit and I are under heavy suspicion - no allowance for the fact that scum aren’t stupid (and since it was Blastermaster making the pick, scum were actually pretty smart). He’d know he needs to void both masons and someone under suspicion. Diggit and I are under heavy suspicion, so there’s no point in recruiting us. nesta and Cookies, I think are masons, for reasoning that Blastermaster would also have seen - and if he recruits a mason the scum loose. That leaves Hal, who was nicely establishing himself as a town leader at the same time. Now I could be wrong, and he could be a mason who can do the same math, which is why he insists Diggit is town. Otherwise, how does he know? Care to roleclaim Hal? Diggit > [@](#): > > “For my part, I’m quite sure the first recruiting moment was chosen. Yesterday’s “out of context” quotes would have cinched the deal, but this post gave me, even at the time, a strong feeling that tirial thought Millit was a mason.” That’s because she hinted at it repeatedly and I think named the other two…look for the post and you will find it. > [@](#): > > “Millit’s vote was the second against Blaster Master” Yes I knew Millet was a mason - I didn’t say I thought she was a great player, or I trusted her logic. Now I may be overthinking this, but its either you or Hal. You’ve looked like scum from the Night 5, but there isn’t very much motive for the mafia to recruit you then. Hal has looked slightly odd since the last no-kill night and there’s a very strong motive for the mafia the recruit him then. However, that said: There are two potential Doctor tells in your posts the days before, and Night 5 was the shortest Night - it was also right after that night that the mafia started saying they would kill the Doctor if I roleclaimed - an act you got straight in on (probably because you didn’t have a chance to plan with the scum the night you were recruited). I think they went for the Doctor and recruited the wrong person. I am also not certain that your “Oh look I spotted the doctor” post was anything other than a fishing expedition to get everyone looking and hopefully posting hints or clues the mafia could use. A townie would keep their mouths shut about power-roles. You seem to be the only person who doesn’t follow the logic that if there are two possible recruit nights (Night 5 and the last no kill night) and logically all the reasons point to it occurring on the second night, for someone to insist it happened on the first is odd unless they have extra knowledge. I do - I’m the Doctor and I know there was a chance that second night was a block. The only other person who knows that is the scum if it was a failed kill. You are the only person who insisted the recruit occurred earlier, even when everyone else built a case against it. Either you are scum, or so convinced I am the recruit that you are ignoring basic logic. Therefore I would strongly suggest that Cookies and nesta vote for me, and then whichever of them survives strings Diggit up the next day. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2389 "2007-06-18T06:25:50Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] You could’ve still gotten your coin toss if you’d left your vote on Diggit. But if you insist. **Vote tirial**. If I have enough braincells left for another Day, I’ll see what I can make of your death if you turn out to be town. [/QUOTE] Actually no, I couldn’t have. When you unvoted him, it cost me that option. My only option now is to go route B. I get lynched, the town loses a mason tonight, and we kill Diggit tomorrow. If the final recruit is Hal then we’ve lost. And I’m sick of having the rules changed on me. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2390 "2007-06-18T06:29:34Z")
> [@](#): > > My finger is on the trigger for tirial, but I would like to hear from nesta and Hal if possible first. Yeah, that’s really going to result in a coin toss… nesta’s unlikely to post and Hal is dead certain I am scum (opr just wants to get me killed). (And since Gad thinks that voting for myself at the end of a day is bad sportsmanship:) Unvote Tirial Vote Diggit ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2391 "2007-06-18T06:30:47Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] \(And since Gad thinks that voting for myself at the end of a day is bad sportsmanship: ) [/Quote] Have I mentioned I hate automated smilies its a : and a ). ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2392 "2007-06-18T06:38:47Z")
And anyone with sense will vote Diggit today. The rest of you can apologise and kill him tomorrow. Metagame: And you don’t think that Gad granting the first extension in this game so far might be one hell of a clue that its one or the other of us? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2393 "2007-06-18T06:50:56Z")
I shouldn’t have exercised my discretion to extend the Day. I was in a big hurry, and I didn’t think people would want an endgame lynch decided by [random.org](http://random.org) if it was possibly avoidable. I accept full responsibility for fucking this game up even more than it already was. However, this: > [@](#): > > Metagame: And you don’t think that Gad granting the first extension in this game so far might be one hell of a clue that its one or the other of us? Is completely unfounded. My choosing to extend the Day had absolutely nothing to do with whether one, none, or both of the two of you might be any particular role. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2394 "2007-06-18T06:55:16Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] I shouldn’t have exercised my discretion to extend the Day. I was in a big hurry, and I didn’t think people would want an endgame lynch decided by [random.org](http://random.org) if it was possibly avoidable. I accept full responsibility for fucking this game up even more than it already was. However, this: Is completely unfounded. My choosing to extend the Day had absolutely nothing to do with whether one, none, or both of the two of you might be any particular role. [/QUOTE] Whatever. You want to take this to the Pit, because I do. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2395 "2007-06-18T14:24:55Z")
\*The town lynches **tirial**. **tirial** , the Doctor, is dead.\* Please submit your night instructions by 10:30 a.m. my time on Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2396 "2007-06-18T14:41:01Z")
Well, crap. I had little time, but I took a minute to skim the thread this morning. As I was dropping my daughter off at day care, I kept thinking that perhaps I was wrong about **tirial** , and hopefully the sun wouldn’t set before I got back. SOL. If it isn’t looked at as overly strategizing, I’m sure it’ll be my blood spilt tonight, and after yesterday, I can accept that. Damn. As for the flaring tempers – remember, just a game, people. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2397 "2007-06-18T14:52:02Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Well, crap. I had little time, but I took a minute to skim the thread this morning. As I was dropping my daughter off at day care, I kept thinking that perhaps I was wrong about **tirial** , and hopefully the sun wouldn’t set before I got back. SOL. If it isn’t looked at as overly strategizing, I’m sure it’ll be my blood spilt tonight, and after yesterday, I can accept that. Damn. [/QUOTE] Told you. Sick of telling you. You know what you have to do. Now try and get it right. [QUOTE=Hal Briston] As for the flaring tempers – remember, just a game, people. [/QUOTE] Read the forbidden thread afterwards and you might join me in roasting our GM… ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2398 "2007-06-18T14:56:58Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] (snip) As for the flaring tempers – remember, just a game, people. [/QUOTE] Seconded. But it’s not like it hasn’t happened before. **Brewha** pretty much provided the template for a flameout like this one. How can a theory feel so right, yet be so wrong? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2399 "2007-06-18T15:04:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Read the forbidden thread afterwards and you might join me in roasting our GM… I deserve it. My GMing won’t be happening again. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2007, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2400 "2007-06-18T15:10:37Z")
Well, what a crappy way to start a Monday morning. . [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=119) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=121)