# Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 17, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527 "2007-04-17T21:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 125
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2481 "2007-06-22T19:02:09Z")
Sure thing. Let me make the group public. One sec. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2482 "2007-06-22T19:03:36Z")
Can you view the group here? [Mafia Board](http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sdmbmafia/) ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2483 "2007-06-22T19:04:19Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] Can you view the group here? [Mafia Board](http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sdmbmafia/) [/QUOTE] Seems so. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2484 "2007-06-22T19:58:22Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Bingo – that was one of the most frustrating things to me. The two days that Masons were killed were both days that a Mason _had_ to be killed. If the scum didn’t make the exact right calls on both of those days, the game would’ve ended with a Mason win. Damn you, scum! [/QUOTE] Looking at the Mafia board, Millit drew suspicion very early on. We never had a chance for a Mason win. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2485 "2007-06-22T20:40:43Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Looking at the Mafia board, Millit drew suspicion very early on. We never had a chance for a Mason win. [/QUOTE] Haven’t gotten that far yet. I’m just reading about how fricking close I came to taking NAF’s place as the first one whacked. Eep! ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2486 "2007-06-22T21:01:24Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Another reason I’d love to look at the Mafia thread. Both of you were killed by **nesta** and that makes the question: **nesta** did **Blaster Master** give you instructions? Or did you figure out **Millit** was a Mason by yourself? Did **tirial** ’s post help you find her? [/QUOTE] It’s there in the Mafia board now so you can see first hand. Honestly I only skimmed the older posts on the Mafia board and didn’t read them very closely. I don’t remember them being onto **Millit** , but it was pretty obvious who the masons were as soon as **Blaster Mater** was ruled out and **Hal** all but screamed that you two were masons. I was holding a very small sliver of hope that I was wrong about you being a mason and that it was **Cookies** at the end, or that there were two masons, because then I think I would have won. With you and **Hal** the last two masons, though, I don’t think I had a chance once **tirial** was lynched. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2487 "2007-06-22T21:33:39Z")
Reading over the mafia board…it’s a good thing **Gad** caught his mistake when he did. Because that Night I see the mafia chose to kill **zuma** at the Railroad Tracks, which I had chosen again (that Night) for the second Night in a row. So it would have been another zombie NW block (as per **nesta** ). Guess that goes to show that no matter how messed up you think something has gotten…it’s really not that bad and could always be/been worse. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2488 "2007-06-22T21:38:46Z")
Yay us! It was fun, but it was actually better for me that I was out early. School is kicking my butt. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2489 "2007-06-22T21:54:25Z")
I’m still building on my post. But boy, did I overstimate them! ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2490 "2007-06-22T22:18:08Z")
[QUOTE=Projammer] Yay us! It was fun, but it was actually better for me that I was out early. School is kicking my butt. [/QUOTE] I’d just like to note that whenever I see the word “bandwagon” any more, my brain always throws “Projammerwagon” in the backgound. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2491 "2007-06-22T22:30:15Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Actually, **Cookies** preempted that option by noting I was a mason. And baffled me since she voted for me in spite of that insight. Luckily, I was able to convince her of my non-recruitness. [/QUOTE] That would be a prime example of that consistenty inconsistent cluelessness I referring to. Due to my particular hodge-podge of (short) attention span, (lack of) skill, and (limited) deductive reasoning ability, I seem to have pretty much arbitrary moments of clarity as a town player, arbitrary moments of scummy-looking behavior, and arbitrary moments of completely perplexing behavior. In Game 1, it all led to my being lynched in the first third of the game. Here it contributed to me lasting to the bitter end. _shrug_ All I know is that I have fun. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2492 "2007-06-22T22:46:59Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] I’m still building on my post. But boy, did I overstimate them! [/QUOTE] Now that I have “perfect information” (heh), there are some very lucky brakes for us town: 1. At the very beginning there was some talk of contingency plans, etc. And then dropped. Which, for Mafia, was a Very Bad Thing. Why? 2. Because on Day 3 the Very Thing Scum Should Fear happened. One of them got under pressure. And, this is the important part, they had no plans in place for that contingency. 3. In retrospect, actually, Day 3 was the Day Scum Lost. They managed to save **fluiddruid**. For a Day. 4. Even _they_ knew **fluiddruid** was pretty much lost. (Heh. In-game that was my first theory: they knew **fluiddruid** was a goner). But all of them congratulated her on having dodged the bullet. 5. And didn’t look at who had dropped cover (both \*\*Blaster \*\*and \*\*Lemur \*\*had, briefly, tried to “protect” her). (Both of them would be spotted). 6. **Lemur866** ’s lynch not only came as a surprise, but they made no effort to really analyze how it happened. 7. Even outside I’ve read that it was “careless wording” that got him. Look at the Day again. Neither **tirial** nor I (arguably the architects of **Lemur** ’s lynch) really built our case around that slip. I looked at Day 3’s events and spotted the tepid defense that I brought up again in my case against **nesta**. Why? Simple: when you see your teammate under pressure you will both try to defend them and not implicate yourself. Resulting in similar posts (and pretty obvious ones, once you look at them). **tirial** , on the other hand, used the “slip” only as a starting point to further investigate **Lemur**. 8. **SnakesCatLady** ’s vote against **Lemur** was a defensive one (her neck was on the line). 3 out of the first 4 votes against \*\*Lemur866 \*\*_had little to do with his so-called slip_ 9. And yet, \*\*Rachm \*\*accelerated the move against \*\*Lemur \*\*by joining it (with the infamous 3rd. vote). 10. And here, again, a contingency plan would have helped. (A phrase, agreed on by all during each Night, would trigger one of several contingency plans). In this case it could mean, for instance, “find a scapegoat”. And **Blaster Master** (for instance) could have voted against a pre-arranged target ( **SnakesCatLady** would have been ideal at the time) 11. I was amazed at the lack of analysis of trends in the game (who was on shared target lists, who needed to post more, which general distrust could/should be exploited). 12. In particular, the “Mason Problem” was overlooked until it was a palpable danger. And that even though **Millit** was often referred to as a probable power role (which, once the Doctor and NightWatchMan were identified, left just the Masons) and just as often forgotten. There are some more which I probably have overlooked, but I must say: lucky for us that **tirial** wasn’t scum. We’d have been slaughtered. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2493 "2007-06-22T22:48:30Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] That would be a prime example of that consistenty inconsistent cluelessness I referring to. Due to my particular hodge-podge of (short) attention span, (lack of) skill, and (limited) deductive reasoning ability, I seem to have pretty much arbitrary moments of clarity as a town player, arbitrary moments of scummy-looking behavior, and arbitrary moments of completely perplexing behavior. In Game 1, it all led to my being lynched in the first third of the game. Here it contributed to me lasting to the bitter end. _shrug_ All I know is that I have fun. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I had fun too. And, by the way, your suspicion that there was scum hidden in **Lightnin** ’s lynching? As a deduction: horrible! As a prediction? Spot on! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2007, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2494 "2007-06-23T03:58:37Z")
Bah, Humbug! So, so close, only to be beaten by that meddling DiggitCamara! ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2495 "2007-06-25T02:22:21Z")
Ooo..almost forgot – before this thread fades into the history books, I just wanted to make mention of my favorite “Masonic Inside Joke” moment: [The evening after we have our first townie swing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8496858&postcount=529) (Bolding not in the original post): [QUOTE=Hal Briston] I repeat – Damn. Well, **there’s a table in the back with my name on it**. I’ll be back there pounding brews and trying to work out the chemical formula for _Scum-B-Gone_ spray on a bar napkin. [/QUOTE] Aaaand, here’s the relevant portion of the starting PM I received from **Gad** : _Congratulations, you are a Mason! If you’re ever in any doubt about your role, you just look on the sturdy oak table in the back of the tavern, where the three of you, in a fit of drunkenness, carved the message “DiggitCamara, Millit the Frail, and Hal Briston: Best Friends 4 Ever” into the wood with a pocketknife._ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2496 "2007-06-25T02:37:30Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Ooo..almost forgot – before this thread fades into the history books, I just wanted to make mention of my favorite “Masonic Inside Joke” moment: [The evening after we have our first townie swing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8496858&postcount=529) (Bolding not in the original post): Aaaand, here’s the relevant portion of the starting PM I received from **Gad** : _Congratulations, you are a Mason! If you’re ever in any doubt about your role, you just look on the sturdy oak table in the back of the tavern, where the three of you, in a fit of drunkenness, carved the message “DiggitCamara, Millit the Frail, and Hal Briston: Best Friends 4 Ever” into the wood with a pocketknife._ 😃 [/QUOTE] Hal, this cracks me up. I actually didn’t get the reference until now, even though I thought of the “Best Friends 4 Ever” quote all the time. So many of your posts made me smile. I had a dream, during the very beginning of the endgame, that Diggit double-crossed us, and it really upset me! (In the dream, of course.) It was pretty cool to be a Mason and have a couple of allies in this whole thing. By the way, you’re all part of a “special group” on the Dope now, for me. I don’t think I’ve seen any of you in the NYC Dopefest thread, but this game has actually made me think I should go meet some Dopers in person. If any of you out there could make it (though obviously, most of you are very far away and can’t), I’d be so happy to see you there! ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2497 "2007-06-25T14:34:56Z")
[QUOTE=nesta] I told you I was town! Er, what? Did I miss a PM or something? 😉 First, I’d like to apologize for dumping on the game with the stress I am having in real life. I think it was in bad form, and only put a damper on the end-game. **Cookies** (I hope you don’t mind if I call you that, it’s just that your username is so long) was right to call me out on that. It was more of a preemptive apology to both the mafia and the town on why I didn’t bring my A-game. I should have just said I have been busy, or just not said anything, and let it play out. So, sorry about that everyone. That said, I really did have fun playing. A little more before I was recruited, but it was fun all around. I hope I had at least a few spectators fooled. Probably not, but I at least had myself fooled. 😉 **Gadarene** , I think you did a good job moderating the game. Mistakes happen, and I think you recovered from the **Idle** /watchman mix-up as well as you could. I was impressed with how on the ball you were with answering questions and the days ending and starting, and with votecounts etc. I think it’s telling that of the three games hosted on the SDMB so far I think all three moderators have said they won’t moderate again due to how hard it is. I wouldn’t mind at all if you decide to do another and wouldn’t hesitate to play in another game you moderate. You set up a very interesting game that was obviously well balanced since it came down to just the three of us. Thank you very much for setting up the game and keeping it going. I think both the town and mafia as a whole played a really good game. I still can’t believe **Rachm Qoch** was mafia – he was so below my scum radar. Great job **Diggit** for catching me. I made my mistakes once I was recruited and you picked up on them. I don’t think I had any chance of changing your mind. **Cookies** , I want to thank you. I felt you went out of your way to play this game in the spirit it was intended, and I really appreciated the way you handled things at the end. That said, I had a townie read on you from the very beginning, and in the end that same ability of yours to project towniness was my downfall. Very good job. God help us if you are ever mafia. 🙂 As **Blaster Master** mentioned, there were some interesting things revealed in the mafia board. They killed me night 5 (I think it was) because I was onto a few of them. That was actually a little gratifying to read. And as **Blaster Master** said, he thought I was a mason, which I really didn’t get because I thought I was being very transparent that I wasn’t a mason. Now I get to go read the forbidden thread and see if anyone at all thought **Cookies** was the recruit. I’m guessing no. Sorry mafia that I didn’t pull it off. Thanks everyone for the great game. [/QUOTE] Aww. You’re very sweet. I don’t know how I missed this post in the after-game chaos, but I didn’t see it till just now. A few folks on the forbidden thread had their fingers on me. I think it is safe to say that I and any other scum would have more need of divine intervention than the town would, should I ever end up mafia. There’s so much to keep track of and anticipate, neither of which is my forte. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2498 "2007-06-25T15:00:56Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Ooo..almost forgot – before this thread fades into the history books, I just wanted to make mention of my favorite “Masonic Inside Joke” moment: (snip) 😃 [/QUOTE] It was so inside only the joke-maker got it! :smack: 🆒 Actually, just a couple of Days I was afraid I had blown our cover. We (me and **Hal** ) were discussing Masonic win conditions and alignments (should one be recruited). And to strengthen my argument I said something like “this-and-that would be bad _for townies_”. Once I made that post I wanted to erase it immediately. It seems nobody caught on, however :o 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2499 "2007-06-25T15:03:48Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] It was so inside only the joke-maker got it! :smack: 🆒 [/QUOTE] Close…our observant game moderator sent me a “Ha! I geddit!” PM a short time later. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/2500 "2007-06-25T15:07:25Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Bah, Humbug! So, so close, only to be beaten by that meddling DiggitCamara! [/QUOTE] Funny, though: on the MafiaThread on the Night previous to your lynching you said something like “Diggit seems to be catching on. Let’s lynch him” and nobody else picked up your idea. Luckily for me. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=124) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=126)