# Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 17, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527 "2007-04-17T21:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/601 "2007-04-24T23:26:04Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Hmm. How about a list of people who didn’t get fingered by anyone? If a player is so far under the radar that they were never FOSed or voted against, isn’t THAT a bit suspicious? [/QUOTE] Is there anyone who fits that description? I’m already spending more time than I should on this, while I’m at work, but I’d like to see that list as well. I’m half tempted to FOS Gadarene. I swear, that guy knows _everything_. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/602 "2007-04-24T23:28:03Z")
Damn. Can anyone check the links in my last post? They are supposed to go to the 422, 477 and 508th posts and then the 488th. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/603 "2007-04-24T23:30:58Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] Hmm. How about a list of people who didn’t get fingered by anyone? If a player is so far under the radar that they were never FOSed or voted against, isn’t THAT a bit suspicious? [/QUOTE] Not at all. Anyone who gets fingered is, in my book, all right: as long as their participations are truthful and give information to the town (hey, we all have dissenting ideas and it’s our job to get a consensus). However, anyone who seems to spread suspicion lightly and/or give false information gets an automatic FOS in my book. ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/604 "2007-04-24T23:36:33Z")
[QUOTE=dnooman] No mafia _ever_ would be dumb enough to kill off all the people that voted for one of them like that. It would only point the finger right at the Mafioso. [/QUOTE] Unless that’s what they knew we would think. 😉 I’m still very suspicious of **Projammer** , and haven’t had time to fully think over what it means that the Mafia were willing to off **NAF1388** even though he shared my suspicions of him. It’s a bit of a wine-in-front-of-me situation, and I don’t like those. If the Mafia did have a hand in the **percypercy** bandwagon, then I think it was because she was a target of opportunity. [QUOTE=dnooman] Keep in mind that town had no idea who was or wasn’t town (with the exception of the Masons). It is entirely possible for a townie to have been responsible for the death of **percypercy**. I thought the **Projammer** bandwagon was going a bit fast, and I also voted for **percypercy** who turned out to be town. Does that make me Mafia? Of course not. [/QUOTE] No, it doesn’t make you Mafia. I voiced suspicion of **percypercy** after the **Projammer** mini-wagon started up (in which I was the first vote), so I understand exactly why pro-town players might also have been suspicious of her. I think scum had a hand in the bandwagon, though. [QUOTE=dnooman] **Projammer** may be Mafia, he may not, but I don’t think your reasoning makes any sense at all. I thought you made some very good arguments on the first day, and I think this one seems pretty flimsy. To me that is a reversal of behavior. FOS **nesta**. [/QUOTE] I can understand why you think an argument that **Projammer** is scum just because two people on his bandwagon are dead is flimsy. That’s not the only reason I suspect him, though. I’m assuming that the very good arguments you say I made the first day include my suspicion of **Projammer**. I’m not sure how my continuing that suspicion now that I know the other two who shared it were town is a reversal. If I’m right about **Projammer** being scum, then it would make sense that other scum might have tried to derail his bandwagon. As for taking a serious look at the **percypercy** bandwagon, that’s just good common sense. We had a townie lynched yesterday, so let’s look at all those who had a hand it in, including me, and including you. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/605 "2007-04-24T23:48:44Z")
[QUOTE=nesta] We had a townie lynched yesterday, so let’s look at all those who had a hand it in, including me, and including you. [/QUOTE] You got something you want to get off your chest, nesta? ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/606 "2007-04-24T23:50:29Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Actually, I’d like to point out that percypercy didn’t get lynched because a \*\*Projammer \*\*“bandwagon” got derailed but because the **Lightnin’** factor ceased to be. [/QUOTE] Good point. The **Lightnin’** bandwagon and then un-bandwagon was central to what happened at the end of yesterday. Maybe even more so than the **Projammer** bandwagon. I think we should be looking closely at this as well. ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/607 "2007-04-24T23:52:33Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] You got something you want to get off your chest, nesta? [/QUOTE] I can’t tell if you’re joking or not, so I’ll answer as if you were serious: Just that I had voiced suspicions about **percypercy** myself, as I admitted in the post you quoted. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/608 "2007-04-25T00:28:14Z")
[QUOTE=nesta] Unless that’s what they knew we would think. 😉 I’m still very suspicious of **Projammer** , and haven’t had time to fully think over what it means that the Mafia were willing to off **NAF1388** even though he shared my suspicions of him. It’s a bit of a wine-in-front-of-me situation, and I don’t like those. If the Mafia did have a hand in the **percypercy** bandwagon, then I think it was because she was a target of opportunity. No, it doesn’t make you Mafia. I voiced suspicion of **percypercy** after the **Projammer** mini-wagon started up (in which I was the first vote), so I understand exactly why pro-town players might also have been suspicious of her. I think scum had a hand in the bandwagon, though. I can understand why you think an argument that **Projammer** is scum just because two people on his bandwagon are dead is flimsy. That’s not the only reason I suspect him, though. I’m assuming that the very good arguments you say I made the first day include my suspicion of **Projammer**. I’m not sure how my continuing that suspicion now that I know the other two who shared it were town is a reversal. If I’m right about **Projammer** being scum, then it would make sense that other scum might have tried to derail his bandwagon. As for taking a serious look at the **percypercy** bandwagon, that’s just good common sense. We had a townie lynched yesterday, so let’s look at all those who had a hand it in, including me, and including you. [/QUOTE] I think I can agree with this. With 6 people being involved in **percypercy’s** death, there is a decent chance that scum was involved. At the moment, I’m less suspicious of the latter voters because there didn’t seem to be a need for scum to pile on too many votes in order to get a lynch. As unfortunate as it was that **percypercy** turned out to be town, I can’t really regret my vote because a quiet townie is bad for the town. I think we can all agree to that. If scum were influencing her demise, they picked a good target because her posting methods were not pro town. If there were no scum involved, the townies still made the “right” move by getting rid of either a) a lurking scum, or b) a townie that really isn’t advancing our knowledge base. So, are we being led around by the nose by the Mafia, or are we just killing ourselves off blindly without their influence? I think that we can potentially glean the most information from day one, the Mafia knew who each other were, but hadn’t been able to discuss a strategy in private yet. In addition to rereading the thread, I’m still going to keep my eye on the people accused on day one. Only four people received 0 votes on day one, **Hal Briston, tirial, Blaster Master, and Rachm Qoch**. That means that there is a **very** good chance that a scum or even more than one scum has been voted for and possibly dodged a bullet. If any of those people are masons, then the other masons would **know** that a mafia was voted for at least once. Who? That’s the big question. I really don’t want to see us get led around by the scum and have our votes and suspicions scattershot. IMO that will lead us down the road to destruction, constantly juggling candidates and killing each other off. We have to assume that the scum have picked up a trick or two from the previous games so we need to bring our A game today. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/609 "2007-04-25T00:42:21Z")
[QUOTE=dnooman] I think I can agree with this. With 6 people being involved in **percypercy’s** death, there is a decent chance that scum was involved. At the moment, I’m less suspicious of the latter voters because there didn’t seem to be a need for scum to pile on too many votes in order to get a lynch. As unfortunate as it was that **percypercy** turned out to be town, I can’t really regret my vote because a quiet townie is bad for the town. I think we can all agree to that. [/QUOTE] I disagree. I’m really suspicious of the sudden turnaround that swung the lynching toward [**percypercy**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8495204&postcount=495) from [**Lightnin’**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8494500&postcount=488). In my last post on sunday I refrained from unvoting percypercy (whom I still suspected, albeit ontly in the 3rd position) because my number one spot ( **Lightnin’** ) seemed to head for the gallows ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/610 "2007-04-25T00:47:56Z")
Well crap. You’ll be missed. Badly. And they’ve accomplished two things. First, they’ve deprived us of a skilled player. Second, they’ve hung a big red flag over me. On the other hand, that flag is too big and too red. They won’t bring that much attention to one of their own. Time to go review posts some more. ---
**Author:** ![CaerieD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@CaerieD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaerieD)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/611 "2007-04-25T00:49:58Z")
**DiggitCamara** - I’m not sure if I’m reading your last post correctly. Are you saying you’re suspicious of **dnooman** because of **percypercy** ’s lynching? ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/612 "2007-04-25T00:59:26Z")
[QUOTE=CaerieD] **DiggitCamara** - I’m not sure if I’m reading your last post correctly. Are you saying you’re suspicious of **dnooman** because of **percypercy** ’s lynching? [/QUOTE] Not exactly. He wasn’t the only one who voted and/or swung his vote towards **percypercy**. However, since daybreak he’s been trying to get us to examine **Projammer** ’s “lynching bandwagon”, when **Lightnin’** was really the one close get hanged (there were at least 2 different posts by people who “felt uncomfortable being the deciding vote”. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/613 "2007-04-25T00:59:27Z")
[QUOTE=dnooman] \ At the moment, I’m less suspicious of the latter voters because there didn’t seem to be a need for scum to pile on too many votes in order to get a lynch. [/quote] Really? This is interesting. I’m more suspicious of the latter people instead as it seemed that most were piling on **percypercy** already and it’d be smart to get in at least one scum vote while everyone else is doing the same. So I think that one of the latter ones would be MORE apt to be scum if any would. I also would think everyone else would think that more probable too, which surprises me that you’d think otherwise. This brings me back around again to **CaerieD** who jumped on not one but TWO seeming bandwagons in the making. **percypercy’s** and [earlier](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8490954&postcount=423) she not only jumped on the mini **Omi No Kami** bandwagon but also started it. At that time I had just thought it was a common mistake between two townies but with her changing her vote to be the sixth (and last) nail in **percypercy’s** coffin, it looks weird. That being said, she wasn’t the only one who was on two bandwagons at the time. One other person was, that person being you. You [were the third person to vote for Lightnin’ after I did](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8489709&postcount=378) but when many others starting piling on him you (just like I did), changed your vote. However, you (very unlike myself) just hopped on another pile-on [with percypercy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8495204&postcount=495). And THIS just a mere **seven posts** after you made [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8494500&postcount=488) where you all of say you’re happy with your vote (even if **Lightnin’** is town (!!) ) and also “aim” your FOS at **Projammer**. So, uh, whatever happened to **Projammer** then? Did, when you made post #495, he just completely slip your mind even though you had a FOS on him? Seems that way since you instead voted for **percy**. And yeah, you did mention previous suspicions of **percy** (your post # 461). I even referred to this when I, myself, said **percy** was starting to look odd. But in between all of that saying things like you’re happy with your vote even in the case **Lightnin’** is town (but oh so “sadly”) and seemingly to forget all about **Projammer** when you seemed so suspicious of him in the first place makes it all seem really shady. So, all in all, I don’t think that the first or last half of voting has anything to do with who might be scum or not. I think there’s the possibility either half could have scummy votes, but in my opinion it’d be more apt to be the last and final votes then any. > [@](#): > > As unfortunate as it was that **percypercy** turned out to be town, I can’t really regret my vote because a quiet townie is bad for the town. I think we can all agree to that. **Lightnin’** was anything but quiet and you also said you were “happy” with your vote for him too. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/614 "2007-04-25T01:08:00Z")
I disagree that the later votes against **percypercy** are likely to be scum votes. She was lynched with 6 votes, and a record that didn’t stand out in any particular way. So the main scum goal in the first round was simply to avoid a scum lynch, and avoid giving off scum vibes. Unless **Lightning** or **Projammer** is scum and the percypercy bandwagon was a way to deflect attention, the scum won’t care that much. And there’s a pretty simple way for us to tell if either is scum…it will only take a minute to string them up and examine their juicy centers. I don’t understand what a late vote against **percypercy** accomplishes for a late scum voter. It’s a vote against a townsman that can only look bad. It seems more likely for a late scum vote to be a scum voting against another scum, knowing that percy was destined to swing there would be no danger of the voted against scum getting the noose, and it establishes an alibi later if we discover a scum. So. Late votes against low vote count players are more suspicious than late votes against Percy. ---
**Author:** ![Rachm\_Qoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Rachm\_Qoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachm_Qoch)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/615 "2007-04-25T01:14:33Z")
[QUOTE=dnooman] I think I can agree with this. With 6 people being involved in **percypercy’s** death, there is a decent chance that scum was involved. At the moment, I’m less suspicious of the latter voters because there didn’t seem to be a need for scum to pile on too many votes in order to get a lynch. As unfortunate as it was that **percypercy** turned out to be town, I can’t really regret my vote because a quiet townie is bad for the town. I think we can all agree to that. [/QUOTE] I disagree as well. A townie death is bad for the town, _PERIOD_. It could be (especially if we flat out tell them!) that the mafia _expects_ us to lynch our less vocal friends early on – no doubt if they expect us to focus on the likes of **percypercy** during daytime, they’ll simply knock off the social butterflies at night and let us do half of their job for them. That might very well be what cost **NAF** his life. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/616 "2007-04-25T01:18:46Z")
[QUOTE=dnooman] So, are we being led around by the nose by the Mafia, or are we just killing ourselves off blindly without their influence? I really don’t want to see us get led around by the scum and have our votes and suspicions scattershot. IMO that will lead us down the road to destruction, constantly juggling candidates and killing each other off. We have to assume that the scum have picked up a trick or two from the previous games so we need to bring our A game today. [/QUOTE] **PercyPercy** I suspect was mostly a target of opportunity. Her lack of input pretty much just set her up and they didn’t have to do anything to let her fall. Just pitch a vote or two in the ring. Odds were that we would catch a townie the first day without any firm evidence to take down anyone else. **Lightnin** is still high on my list. But like everyone else, I’ll be reviewing posts to see who else comes up on radar. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/617 "2007-04-25T01:19:05Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Not at all. Anyone who gets fingered is, in my book, all right: as long as their participations are truthful and give information to the town (hey, we all have dissenting ideas and it’s our job to get a consensus). However, anyone who seems to spread suspicion lightly and/or give false information gets an automatic FOS in my book. [/QUOTE] I am suspicious of you because you seem so determined to be suspicious of me. And as you said above: “anyone who seems to spread suspicion lightly…” I am also very suspicious of **Projammer**. Both of our dearly departed _townies_ had voted for him, and I think much more highly of **NAF1138** ’s abilities in this game than I do of my own. I think that is why he was killed off so fast. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/618 "2007-04-25T01:20:16Z")
Would **DiggitCamara** and **Rachm Qoch** please state explicitly what they don’t agree with me about? Explicitly. ---
**Author:** ![CaerieD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@CaerieD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaerieD)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/619 "2007-04-25T01:34:32Z")
[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts] This brings me back around again to **CaerieD** who jumped on not one but TWO seeming bandwagons in the making. **percypercy’s** and [earlier](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8490954&postcount=423) she not only jumped on the mini **Omi No Kami** bandwagon but also started it. [/QUOTE] While I did give the last vote against **percypercy** and I regret that, I can’t see how I could have both jumped on a bandwagon and _started_ it. I either started it or I jumped onto the bandwagon. Those are mutually exclusive claims. This is the same odd distortion of posts that you gave before that had me looking at you suspiciously. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2007, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/620 "2007-04-25T01:34:38Z")
[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts] I’m more suspicious of the latter people instead as it seemed that most were piling on **percypercy** already and it’d be smart to get in at least one scum vote while everyone else is doing the same. So I think that one of the latter ones would be MORE apt to be scum if any would. [/quote] Get in at least one scum vote? Scum that see a sinking ship are not likely to add their name to the list of people who helped sink it. All of the scum **knew** that **percypercy** was town, why would they want to be associated with killing a known townie when it was clear he was going to die anyways? > [@](#): > > **Lightnin’** was anything but quiet and you also said you were “happy” with your vote for him too. Yes I did, and I would have stayed happy with it had I not thought that he might be a mason and that his fellow masons were the ones defending him. Was I over thinking that potential scenario, probably. In retrospect, I think that if he were a mason headed for the gallows the other Masons would know enough to keep quiet until he was forced to claim. It never got that far, so we’ll see how that situation plays out. **Lightnin’s** defenders were either a) townies that just thought he was making rookie blunders, b) masons foolishly outing themselves as a group unnecessarily, c) Mafia not wanting us to get one of their own killed before they had a chance to strategize, or d) a combination of the aforementioned people. Scenarios c and d make the most sense to me. Did I leave out a possible scenario? Besides one of them being a doc, detective, NW, etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=32)