# Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 17, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527 "2007-04-17T21:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![CaerieD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@CaerieD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaerieD)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/721 "2007-04-26T15:53:27Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] I know I’m not convincing anyone but myself, but, since you’ve already brought up the “Contradictions are an important scum tell”-meme, let’s look at two posts from **dnooman** : post #243: “We should only refer to ourselves as town, never anything more specific unless absolutely necessary. We don’t need to narrow down the possible pool of power roles for the Mafia.” post #495:“Bloody hell. The thought that **Lightnin** ’ might be a mason occurred to me. If he is, and the other masons were those that were defending him, we’re in deep shit.” So: to justify the crucial vote swing against **percypercy** , he contradicted his earlier post by guessing that **Lightnin’** is a mason. There are other posts that just serve to increase my suspicions against him, like for instance: #401: while keeping his vote against \*\*Lightnin’ \*\*he calms him down (at the time, **Lightnin’** was freaking out and speaking about not enjoying the game) And, finally, post #643. In it he gives the masons “advice” to vote at least one tima against each other to delay identification by scum. However scum could read it as “vote at least once against scum to delay identification by town”… [/QUOTE] And, it should be noted, in post [#645](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8504906&postcount=654) after **dnooman** gave that advice **Lightnin’** voted for… **dnooman**! If we assume Lightnin’ was taking dnooman’s advice, then we have two possibilities here: 1. They’re both scum and dnooman was giving his teammate a hint during the day when they can’t speak freely. 2. They’re both Masons. Or, it’s simply a coincidence and one or both are town. But it’s a pretty striking coincidence, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/722 "2007-04-26T15:57:25Z")
Note that the trouble I’m having is that I’ve got a couple of people who I’m NOT suspicious of, but none of the other people not on that list stand out. But, I’m pretty sure that at least one scum has voted for Projammer. I’m not feeling the Projammer scum vibe. He’s no more suspicious to me than any of you all. So, on the theory that at least one scum has hopped on Projammer, that gives me a short list: SnakesCatLady, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, nesta, Millit the Frail, CaerieD. I voted for CaerieD first round, but not out of any deep conviction, just as a prod to get her to be more active. I agree that the definition of a lurker isn’t the person who posted least, since that means we’ll always have a lurkingest player, no matter how much people contribute. And raw numbers of posts don’t mean much either. I agree that most people are contributing. Except…SnakesCatLady. It’s not that she doesn’t post, it’s that she doesn’t contribute. Of course there’s not much to contribute, but wild speculation is all we have now. And she’s voting with the herd for Projammer while none of the other suspects on the list are very suspicious. And since we’re getting down to it and it would be dishonorable to avoid voting, I’m going to vote SnakesCatLady. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/723 "2007-04-26T16:02:44Z")
[gameface off] Does anyone else think that choice exchanges from this game (or either of the other two) would be awesome dialog for _Stick Figure Theater_? [gameface on] ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/724 "2007-04-26T16:04:29Z")
Just because I have cast a vote doesn’t mean I am not paying attention. I have a very strong feeling that **Projammer** is scum. The fact that others have voted for him tells me that others feel the same way. If people waited until dusk to vote, it might make me wonder why they were jumping on the “bandwagon” so late. This question may make me look like scum, but I hope it will be taken in the spirit in which it is asked; lack of knowledge of the strategy of the game. If a player about to go under the noose claims Mason, is it in the best interests of the Masons for one of them to defend him? Or would that depend on how far along the game is? I can see that Masons would not want a fellow Mason lynched, but defending him would out him as definitely town (therefore an easy fit for concrete shoes) and would also out the defending player as town (if he/she is believed) and and make it more likely for the defender to get a one way trip to the bottom of the bay with no scuba gear. (Does this town have a bay?) ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/725 "2007-04-26T16:10:39Z")
Because I’m around and I feel like it: **Updated Vote Count** 5 – **Projammer** (SnakesCatLady, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, nesta, Millit the Frail, CaerieD) 2 – **dnooman** (Lightnin’, DiggitCamara) 1 – **Lightnin’** (Projammer) 1 – **CaerieD** (Blaster Master) 1 – **Kyrie Eleison** (fluiddruid) 1 – **SnakesCatLady** (Lemur866) ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/726 "2007-04-26T16:11:57Z")
[QUOTE=CaerieD] 1. They’re both scum and dnooman was giving his teammate a hint during the day when they can’t speak freely. 2. They’re both Masons. Or, it’s simply a coincidence and one or both are town. But it’s a pretty striking coincidence, isn’t it? [/QUOTE] Of course, that’s discounting the fact that I had, a few posts earlier, listed him among the three I thought had suspicious bandwagon affinities. The fact that he then made the first vote of the day, and it was against me (who is arguably the easiest target) convinced me that he was the scummiest. I’m curious, though- you’re very willing to finger me, but not **dnooman** … since as near as I can tell, none of your posited scenarios would have him be Mafia. Any particular reason? ---
**Author:** ![CaerieD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@CaerieD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaerieD)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/727 "2007-04-26T16:12:03Z")
All right, after **DiggitCamara** ’s post, I did a search of every instance of **dnooman** ’s name in the thread, just to get a feel for what else has been said. [#655](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8504936&postcount=655) really stood out to me. **Hal Briston** made some pretty good observations here that I completely missed the first time through. We’ve got questions of interest to scum just before night falls and a seeming awareness of how many scum there are. If this is the case and dnooman turns up Mafia, then I firmly suggest **Lightnin’** goes next, since it does look like they were trying to communicate strategy to one another during the day. When the day started, I’d been feeling that **Projammer** was a better target, but looking at it this way I feel like it’d be foolish to turn a blind eye on **dnooman**. If they’re Masons trying to work together, fine, they can role claim we’ll see if anyone else backs them up, but the thought that they’re just vanilla townies is seeming less and less likely. So, for now I’m going to unvote Projammer, though my FOS remains in place, and vote dnooman. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/728 "2007-04-26T16:13:01Z")
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady] This question may make me look like scum, but I hope it will be taken in the spirit in which it is asked; lack of knowledge of the strategy of the game. If a player about to go under the noose claims Mason, is it in the best interests of the Masons for one of them to defend him? Or would that depend on how far along the game is? I can see that Masons would not want a fellow Mason lynched, but defending him would out him as definitely town (therefore an easy fit for concrete shoes) and would also out the defending player as town (if he/she is believed) and and make it more likely for the defender to get a one way trip to the bottom of the bay with no scuba gear. (Does this town have a bay?) [/QUOTE] My take on this: 1. Mason about to be lynched. Should definitely claim (after all, it’s the loss of a towny) 2. If scum counterclaims, it’s their loss: at this point of the game any one-to-one exchange would benefit town. No other mason should confirm (at this stage of the game). If, by mistake, a mason IS lynched in this scenario, the scum would be easily identifiable and should be lynched on the next day. Even better, if the scum start the scenario, and for some reason a second scum decides to counterclaim the mason’s claim, two mafia would be identified. Of course, all this changes, depending on how far the game has gotten. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/729 "2007-04-26T16:19:06Z")
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady] Just because I have cast a vote doesn’t mean I am not paying attention. I have a very strong feeling that **Projammer** is scum. The fact that others have voted for him tells me that others feel the same way. If people waited until dusk to vote, it might make me wonder why they were jumping on the “bandwagon” so late. This question may make me look like scum, but I hope it will be taken in the spirit in which it is asked; lack of knowledge of the strategy of the game. If a player about to go under the noose claims Mason, is it in the best interests of the Masons for one of them to defend him? Or would that depend on how far along the game is? I can see that Masons would not want a fellow Mason lynched, but defending him would out him as definitely town (therefore an easy fit for concrete shoes) and would also out the defending player as town (if he/she is believed) and and make it more likely for the defender to get a one way trip to the bottom of the bay with no scuba gear. (Does this town have a bay?) [/QUOTE] Well, the way it worked in Werewolf I, somebody going to the gallows claimed mason. None of the other masons openly defended him, but no one challenged him. And that was taken as evidence that he was either scum or mason. Since if he was scum the real masons could all band together and vote against him, without revealing mason status, the fact that his mason status was unchallenged was taken as evidence that he really was mason. So, masons don’t need to openly defend a mason claim, or openly vouch for another mason by claiming mason status too. The absence of denounciations against the mason claimer is a pretty good indication that they’re telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![CaerieD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@CaerieD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaerieD)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/730 "2007-04-26T16:19:24Z")
Missed your response on preview, **Lightnin’**. I do think **dnooman** is Mafia, as evidenced by my vote just now. It’s possible he isn’t, of course, since we won’t know anything for sure until the player is out of the game, but I’m comfortable with my vote for the moment. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/731 "2007-04-26T16:34:48Z")
[QUOTE=Lemur866] I agree that most people are contributing. Except…SnakesCatLady. It’s not that she doesn’t post, it’s that she doesn’t contribute. Of course there’s not much to contribute, but wild speculation is all we have now. And she’s voting with the herd for Projammer while none of the other suspects on the list are very suspicious. And since we’re getting down to it and it would be dishonorable to avoid voting, I’m going to vote SnakesCatLady. [/QUOTE] (snipped and color removed) If I am not mistaken, I was the first to vote for **Projammer** today (game day), and I listed my reasons for doing so. So I can hardly be seen as “voting with the herd”. I am also suspicious of some others; I am less suspicious of **Lightnin’** than I once was but he has not completely cleared my scumdar. **dnooman** and **fluiddruid** are also on my list (consults notes) as are you, **Lemur866**. If it turns out **Lightnin’** is scum, you are next on my list to lynch due to your defense of him in post 486. I’m sure that lack of contribution may be seen as a scum tell, but since I am new to the game and haven’t had a lot to contribute I haven’t seen the point in posting a lot. As I get ideas, I post them. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/732 "2007-04-26T16:50:58Z")
I don’t want to harp and harp on the lynch lurkers thing. It’s just one thing to consider, that scum have more to gain by lurking than town. I agree that I’m pretty curious about what’s behind door #Lightning and door #dnooman. When one of them bites it that’s going to release a lot of information. But unfortunately my suspicion is that the information revealed will be that both are town, and if one is mafia, it’s more likely to be Lightning that dnooman, and I just can’t see how both could be mafia, their squabble is way to clumsy. Since IMHO the most likely answer is that both are town I can’t vote for either of them, curious though I am. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/733 "2007-04-26T16:53:37Z")
By the way, I agree that if Lighting turns out to be mafia, I’m going to look like a big jerk. ---
**Author:** ![Rachm\_Qoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Rachm\_Qoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachm_Qoch)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/734 "2007-04-26T18:10:43Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] I keep coming back to this post. I see only one similar aspect to the current vote count compared to yester-game-day’s early counts, and that similarity is simply an early bandwagon. I have not picked up on any other situational similarities between **Lightnin’** and **Projammer** , and the attempt to correlate them makes me :dubious:. Bandwagons happen a lot, at many different times of the day. With a sample size of 2, I simply cannot swallow such a correlation with any confidence. As for who my target is, that would be the player I have voted for. [/QUOTE] Well, we’ll find out soon enough if things play out the same way. I’ve got my suspicions, but I can’t say he’s probably Mafia and I can’t say he’s probably town. From my perspective he’s not such a slam-dunk that half the votes should be on him, so I’m betting there’s some scum in the mix. If a sizable portion of **Projammer** ’s votes happen to switch off resulting in another town lynch, that’s something we should look at. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/735 "2007-04-26T18:19:38Z")
[QUOTE=CaerieD] And, it should be noted, in post [#645](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8504906&postcount=654) after **dnooman** gave that advice **Lightnin’** voted for… **dnooman**! If we assume Lightnin’ was taking dnooman’s advice, then we have two possibilities here: 1. They’re both scum and dnooman was giving his teammate a hint during the day when they can’t speak freely. 2. They’re both Masons. Or, it’s simply a coincidence and one or both are town. But it’s a pretty striking coincidence, isn’t it? [/QUOTE] I think your second option is impossible, that is, I think between the two, the only one that could be a mason is **Lightnin’** , and even that is slim. Assuming that **dnooman** knows from his experience that defending a fellow mason is silly because it outs TWO masons, then if he is a mason, he either would have known **Lightnin’** was and let him claim, or he would have known that he was not, and that would have made his reasoning for changing his vote…odd. I’m not inclined to believe **Lightnin’** is a mason either because I’m thinking he was getting to the point where he would have had to have devulged all if he was going to save his skin, except that **dnooman** did it for him. Thus, I’m inclined to believe, based on how the events unfolded, that both are non-mason townies, but one or both being scum is still possible. That said, if either is scum, because of **dnooman** ’s odd move, and for previously stated reasons with regards to **Lightnin’** , I’m more inclined to believe if there is scumminess in there, it is with the first rather than the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Rachm\_Qoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Rachm\_Qoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachm_Qoch)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/736 "2007-04-26T18:30:37Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] > [@Rachm Qoch](#): > > percypercy’s guilt only became evident right before sunset – the question is, who will the votes shift to at the last minute? Two questions here: 1) guilt? percypercy was a townie who didn’t post to defend themselves, that doesn’t make her guilty of anything. It makes her lynching a mistake or a deliberate bandwagon - I think the latter. 2) presumably, the votes will shift to whoever the town chooses as we get more evidence. The problem is its easy to make a case and defend it, but unless we get a lot of posters looking at things from different POVs we don’t get enough info to make a good decision. [/QUOTE] I think we’re saying the same thing – it seems like a deliberate wagon sparked at the last moment, before reason could prevail. Maybe they figured that if they cemented **percypercy** ’s supposed “guilt” of being “Mafia” shortly before the vote count, as a lurker she wouldn’t be back in time to defend herself. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/737 "2007-04-26T18:49:46Z")
I don’t have time to look it up right now - real life calls, damn it - but has anyone noted who the middle to last people to vote for **percypercy** were? My notes aren’t figured in such a way as to make it easy to tell. If no one has it already I will work on it when I get home tonight. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/738 "2007-04-26T18:54:58Z")
[QUOTE=Rachm Qoch] I think we’re saying the same thing – it seems like a deliberate wagon sparked at the last moment, before reason could prevail. Maybe they figured that if they cemented **percypercy** ’s supposed “guilt” of being “Mafia” shortly before the vote count, as a lurker she wouldn’t be back in time to defend herself. [/QUOTE] I said much the same in [Post 638](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8503987&postcount=638). > [@](#): > > On the other hand, percypercy had two days to defend Diggit’s vote and didn’t, and a day and a half to defend against mine, and didn’t. So even with twelve hours (approx) for her to defend against a bandwagon, later voters could be fairly certain that she wouldn’t defend herself, so the mafia a) knew she was town and b) knew from her previous behaviour she probably wouldn’t defend. An ideal target to take the pressure off one of your own. Unfortunately, that again circles back to the later voters for **percypercy**. [QUOTE=SnakesCatLady] has anyone noted who the middle to last people to vote for percypercy were? [/QUOTE] **SnakescatLady** I did a breakdown of the votes for **percypercy** in [Post 638](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8503987&postcount=638), including times of votes, if that’s any use. In summary its **Diggit** and me, then a break, then\*\* fluiddruid, dnooman, Blastermaster \*\* and **CaerieD**. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/739 "2007-04-26T18:55:19Z")
[QUOTE=Rachm Qoch] I think we’re saying the same thing – it seems like a deliberate wagon sparked at the last moment, before reason could prevail. Maybe they figured that if they cemented **percypercy** ’s supposed “guilt” of being “Mafia” shortly before the vote count, as a lurker she wouldn’t be back in time to defend herself. [/QUOTE] Well, here’s hoping that we can learn from that, and get a defense/role-claim out of the leading vote getter with, say, 24 hours to go so we don’t end up in the same situation. That is, if people may be convinced to change their votes, they get enough time to do it and the second person also gets a chance to respond. IIRC, the day ends Saturday evening, so, I’m hoping that, assuming **Projammer** is still the leading vote getter, in the interest of preventing a last minute panic re-vote, he should consider doing so tomorrow evening at the latest. ---
**Author:** ![CaerieD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@CaerieD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaerieD)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2007, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/740 "2007-04-26T19:00:43Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] I think your second option is impossible, that is, I think between the two, the only one that could be a mason is **Lightnin’** , and even that is slim. Assuming that **dnooman** knows from his experience that defending a fellow mason is silly because it outs TWO masons, then if he is a mason, he either would have known **Lightnin’** was and let him claim, or he would have known that he was not, and that would have made his reasoning for changing his vote…odd. I’m not inclined to believe **Lightnin’** is a mason either because I’m thinking he was getting to the point where he would have had to have devulged all if he was going to save his skin, except that **dnooman** did it for him. Thus, I’m inclined to believe, based on how the events unfolded, that both are non-mason townies, but one or both being scum is still possible. That said, if either is scum, because of **dnooman** ’s odd move, and for previously stated reasons with regards to **Lightnin’** , I’m more inclined to believe if there is scumminess in there, it is with the first rather than the latter. [/QUOTE] True, it’s not very likely that either one is a Mason, but it is one potential interpretation so I figured I’d include it as a possibility. Looking over posting history and everything else, I’m far more comfortable voting for **dnooman** than **Lightnin’** at this point. I feel that there’s enough evidence there to back it up, too, as illustrated in the previous posts. Obviously, you don’t feel that the evidence is as strong as I do, but **dnooman** doesn’t have that many votes at this point and plenty of time to come back with a defense. If the defense isn’t convincing, my vote stands. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=38)