# Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 17, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527 "2007-04-17T21:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/881 "2007-05-01T05:14:23Z")
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady] I have to say that I am suspicious of **CaerieD** and **Projammer** for voting No Lynch, and for **tirial** and **Omi no Kami** for not voting at all. **Tirial** had voted for **Projammer** and **Ligntnin’** , but unvoted them and did not cast another vote. I have been told that not participating is bad for the town, so I would like to hear why these players aren’t participating. [/QUOTE] I didn’t vote finally because I wasn’t sure. I withdrew my vote on **Lightnin’** because although he seemed like a potential scum candidate on review I really couldn’t make a case - well not one that ws any stronger than you can make against anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/882 "2007-05-01T05:18:02Z")
Dammit. My link to post 819 links, again, to 813. [Here is 819,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8514862&postcount=819)in which **Kyrie** replies to said quote with said statements. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/883 "2007-05-01T05:19:28Z")
Also, what in the heck is wrong with me getting username’s wrong? I meant **Rachm** not Rachel. :smack: :smack: :smack: ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/884 "2007-05-01T05:34:45Z")
Oh S…sugar! No detective. Sorry **Kyrie** , we’ll try to find the scum (please tell me you left some clues). OK, Here’s my current suspicions list - I can build an equal case against any of them: **Projammer** – I’m not sure. If he were mafia, a swing vote for dnooman would have pulled him out of danger of being lynched, and since his lynch would leave the rest of the scum open, it seems possible his role claim was real. On the otherhand they’ve left a confirmed townie still breathing. Otherwise I’d be voting to lynch him. **Fluiddruid** – third person to vote on NAF bandwagon and third on percypercy **RachmQoch** and **CaerieD** because there was something of a voting block going on there (more from **Rachm** than **CaerieD**.) **Lightnin’** – if the switch to percypercy was to protect lightin’ not projammer, then Lightnin is either scum or mason. Or the entire thing was a town mistake. The other reason I withdrew the vote for **Lightnin’** is that he wasn’t online to defend himself, which I only remembered after voting. If he’s not around you don’t get much information from it. I’m not paying much attention to **dnooman** ’s list because I suspect if he were playing **JSexton** would be right at the top as scum. I’ve played a lot of Paranoia and more serious political games (hence why I can build cases but detecting real enemies is pretty difficult) and Idle Thoughts ref’s this. Diggit, got any past experience? ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/885 "2007-05-01T05:52:02Z")
Did the mafia get **Kryie** because she had voted for **fluiddruid**? Why not go after a townie who has role-claimed? ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/886 "2007-05-01T06:53:51Z")
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady] Did the mafia get **Kryie** because she had voted for **fluiddruid**? Why not go after a townie who has role-claimed? [/QUOTE] I was wondering the same thing - if **projammer** is confirmed town/power role, he should be the number one target, except if they had definite ideas that someone else was a better target. If the scum suspected that Kyrie was the Detective that makes sense. To go after Kyrie for no reason, only makes sense if Projammer is scum, and Kyrie’s suspicions were too close. ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/887 "2007-05-01T07:09:29Z")
Well crap. I don’t have much time this evening, so I just wanted to repeat my reason for not voting: I simply didn’t see enough evidence to conclusively hang anyone. I’m still suspicious of **CaerieD** , and growing more suspicious of **RachmQoch** , but using the voting block from day 1 bothers me a bit, because Kyrie was part of it and we’ve confirmed she wasn’t scum. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/888 "2007-05-01T07:23:42Z")
[QUOTE=Omi no Kami] Well crap. I don’t have much time this evening, so I just wanted to repeat my reason for not voting: I simply didn’t see enough evidence to conclusively hang anyone. I’m still suspicious of **CaerieD** , and growing more suspicious of **RachmQoch** , but using the voting block from day 1 bothers me a bit, because Kyrie was part of it and we’ve confirmed she wasn’t scum. [/QUOTE] I’m not using the voting block from Day One only - there are other examples e.g. Two of **Rachm** ’s post’s are “Me too’s” on **CaerieD** ’s. My notes are on my home computer, but there is definitely a pattern between the two. What I did note was that there appears to be a degree of trust between them, which surprised me in this game where you can’t trust anyone. I’ll look out my full notes tonight and post them. And no, I have not had **Kyrie** down as part of the same group as **CaerieD** and **Rachm**. Admittedly he was down as a possible, as were **projammer** and **Lightnin’**. ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/889 "2007-05-01T07:29:23Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] I’m not using the voting block from Day One only - there are other examples e.g. Two of **Rachm** ’s post’s are “Me too’s” on **CaerieD** ’s. My notes are on my home computer, but there is definitely a pattern between the two. What I did note was that there appears to be a degree of trust between them, which surprised me in this game where you can’t trust anyone. I’ll look out my full notes tonight and post them. And no, I have not had **Kyrie** down as part of the same group as **CaerieD** and **Rachm**. Admittedly he was down as a possible, as were **projammer** and **Lightnin’**. [/QUOTE] Yea, I agree that there’s something fishy going on. My observation was mainly looking at my own suspicions: the “me toos” are certainly good evidence, but what first made me suspicious of that block was the way they all attacked me on day 1… I guess it merits a second look to figure out how much of a pattern actually exists. ^^ ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/890 "2007-05-01T08:40:12Z")
I’ve looked through Kyrie’s posts from the last day and the summary seems to be anti-FOSing Blastermaster p701 (acknowledged his reasoning was flawed in 706 so not likely to be the crumb), saying that he feels that dnooman and Projammer are town. (P813) and FOSing and voting for Fluiddruid. His vote for Fluiddruid seems to be a definite - possibly a pointer. Fluiddruid voted for him in 714 for being the “low poster”, but Kyrie posted in P772 saying again that Dnooman and Projammer were town, and fluiddruid was suspicous. Kyrie finally voted against fluiddruid in 813, after SnakesCatLday, which could be an attempt to disguise a detective vote by following a trend. [Post 813](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8514719&postcount=813) > [@](#): > > Now that’s a vote I can get on board with. I’ve been ignoring my own suspicions ([Post 815](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8514810&postcount=815)) for two days because I was wrong about **percypercy** and everyone looked untrustworthy. CaerieD still looks odd, but I’d rather follow the Detective’s lead. Vote fluiddruid ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/891 "2007-05-01T09:32:23Z")
I guess it’s worth a try… he/she talked me out of it when I voted for him/her on day 1, but if it’s a potential detective breadcrumb we may as well try again. vote fluiddruid ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/892 "2007-05-01T09:43:49Z")
[QUOTE=Omi no Kami] I guess it’s worth a try… he/she talked me out of it when I voted for him/her on day 1, but if it’s a potential detective breadcrumb we may as well try again. vote fluiddruid [/QUOTE] I’d still like to hear from other people on this one (at least check the posts and confirm my reasoning - I’m currently feeling paranoid). ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/893 "2007-05-01T10:24:09Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] I’d still like to hear from other people on this one (at least check the posts and confirm my reasoning - I’m currently feeling paranoid). [/QUOTE] Absolutely. I still suspect him/her, but if it looks like it’s getting close to a countdown and we’re still short on evidence, I’ll probably un-vote. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/894 "2007-05-01T12:19:14Z")
Wow. I am really surprised about **Kyrie Eleison**. I was so sure he was scum, but I guess now the detective makes a little more sense. I pegged at him for not being more decisive and not posting that much, but now it makes sense. [QUOTE=tirial] I’ve looked through Kyrie’s posts from the last day and the summary seems to be anti-FOSing Blastermaster p701 (acknowledged his reasoning was flawed in 706 so not likely to be the crumb), saying that he feels that dnooman and Projammer are town. (P813) and FOSing and voting for Fluiddruid. [/quote] In my own defense, I feel I’m **way** too easy of a target here - intentionally so! I’m basically the only person who suspected **Kyrie Eleison** , and flat out told him I thought he had posted the scummiest post this game. I all but directly told him I was planning to vote for him this round (which I was at the time). He’s voted for me twice. If I’m scum, doesn’t that seem, well, really really obvious? Mafia knows that I’ve been “suspected” since Day One and I’m an easy lynch target. > [@](#): > > His vote for Fluiddruid seems to be a definite - possibly a pointer. Fluiddruid voted for him in 714 for being the “low poster”, but Kyrie posted in P772 saying again that Dnooman and Projammer were town, and fluiddruid was suspicous. Kyrie finally voted against fluiddruid in 813, after SnakesCatLday, which could be an attempt to disguise a detective vote by following a trend. Let’s remember that the Detective only had one night to investigate. Not everything can be a breadcrumb. Now, it’s up to you guys who you think he investigated. Personally, I think it’s likely that he investigated **Projammer** - the one who escaped the lynch last time. This takes **Projammer** off my suspicious list at least for the time being. However, there’s a good argument to be made that he could have investigated **Blaster Master** - the reason for the odd “anti-FOS” statement - or **dnooman** and not myself. In fact, objectively, I’d say I’m probably third likely to have been the one investigated, if it was indeed one of those 4 - **Projammer** being the most likely, and **Blaster Master** , given the odd statement (with no real backing) about him being Town, second most likely. Fortunately, I think the Mafia made a misstep here, as **Projammer** could still have been a likely lynch candidate today, and seems like he was trusted by the Detective (rightly or wrongly). But, if they can get me down, as one of the more active townies, they will still have succeeded in getting the third lynch in a row. Let’s remember, **Kyrie** only voted for me very late in Day Two, and, only when **Snakecatlady** voted. If she hadn’t, would he have targeted me at all? Maybe it’s just that he knew **Projammer** or **dnooman** was town. After all he did FOS me back in Day One - far before he could have investigated me. > [@Snakecatlady](#): > > Did the mafia get Kryie because she had voted for fluiddruid? Why not go after a townie who has role-claimed? Because the only role that had been claimed that wasn’t dead was **Projammer** as a Do-Gooder, and there’s no sense going after what seemed like a decent lynch candidate (and a now-irrelevant power role). After all I doubt they knew that **Kyrie** was the Detective. How could they, at this point? For now, I’m not really sure which tactic to take. I’m suspicious of **Omi no Kami** - very fast to jump on me without really any analysis of why other than the shock of losing the Detective so early. But, I think it will be worth me going back through some old posts, as I don’t think **Projammer** is scum at this point, and nobody else really has gotten a lot of votes lately. Still not sure on **Lightnin** though. ---
**Author:** ![CaerieD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@CaerieD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaerieD)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/895 "2007-05-01T12:36:29Z")
Aw, geez. Well now we’ve finally lost a power role. I’ve got some stuff to do this morning and then I’ll start going back over the thread to post my commentary. I see the accusations are flying fast already. ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/896 "2007-05-01T12:49:14Z")
[QUOTE=fluiddruid] Wow. I am really surprised about **Kyrie Eleison**. I was so sure he was scum, but I guess now the detective makes a little more sense. I pegged at him for not being more decisive and not posting that much, but now it makes sense. In my own defense, I feel I’m **way** too easy of a target here - intentionally so! I’m basically the only person who suspected **Kyrie Eleison** , and flat out told him I thought he had posted the scummiest post this game. I all but directly told him I was planning to vote for him this round (which I was at the time). He’s voted for me twice. If I’m scum, doesn’t that seem, well, really really obvious? Mafia knows that I’ve been “suspected” since Day One and I’m an easy lynch target. Let’s remember that the Detective only had one night to investigate. Not everything can be a breadcrumb. Now, it’s up to you guys who you think he investigated. Personally, I think it’s likely that he investigated **Projammer** - the one who escaped the lynch last time. This takes **Projammer** off my suspicious list at least for the time being. However, there’s a good argument to be made that he could have investigated **Blaster Master** - the reason for the odd “anti-FOS” statement - or **dnooman** and not myself. In fact, objectively, I’d say I’m probably third likely to have been the one investigated, if it was indeed one of those 4 - **Projammer** being the most likely, and **Blaster Master** , given the odd statement (with no real backing) about him being Town, second most likely. Fortunately, I think the Mafia made a misstep here, as **Projammer** could still have been a likely lynch candidate today, and seems like he was trusted by the Detective (rightly or wrongly). But, if they can get me down, as one of the more active townies, they will still have succeeded in getting the third lynch in a row. Let’s remember, **Kyrie** only voted for me very late in Day Two, and, only when **Snakecatlady** voted. If she hadn’t, would he have targeted me at all? Maybe it’s just that he knew **Projammer** or **dnooman** was town. After all he did FOS me back in Day One - far before he could have investigated me. Because the only role that had been claimed that wasn’t dead was **Projammer** as a Do-Gooder, and there’s no sense going after what seemed like a decent lynch candidate (and a now-irrelevant power role). After all I doubt they knew that **Kyrie** was the Detective. How could they, at this point? [/QUOTE] This really doesn’t strike me as convincing in the least. You’ve done a nice job of summing up perfectly believable reasons for Kyrie to have investigated someone else, but I really don’t see how this specifically addresses tirial and my accusation. It’s true that, based only on the trust list, there’s an equal possibility of Kyrie having investigated any one of you. HOWEVER, you’re really starting to stink of deception here. On day 1 you were making other people answer extremely simple questions of strategy that you could’ve easily figured out for yourself, which could’ve been a smart way of finding scum or a dumb way of finding power roles. Either way, a player coming out of the gates with that much enthusiasm struck me as a bit weird. So I voted for you on day 1, but later got talked out of it. However, I have to note that since then you’ve been significantly less vocal when it comes to making others explain their strategy. Again, it’s possible that you quieted down to avoid mob scrutiny… but it’s also feasible to think that you were quieting down to avoid making anyone else suspicious. Finally, as I already mentioned, the way you’re answering two measly votes is extremely suspicious. We’ve seen, on more than one occasion, players who quite reasonably analyze and criticize the reasoning others have used to vote for them. It’s simple, and it has the added comfort of letting others analyze logical holes in both the accusation and the defense. You, on the other hand, seem to be trying to change the topic: two players out of a much larger number say “Hey, fluid could definitely be the one Kyrie investigated,” but as a response (and please correct me if I’m characterizing your above post poorly) you replied “Well yea, but there are other people who could’ve been investigated”. That’s extremely reasonable. But then you tried to change the subject by following your analysis up with: [QUOTE=fluiddruid] For now, I’m not really sure which tactic to take. I’m suspicious of **Omi no Kami** - very fast to jump on me without really any analysis of why other than the shock of losing the Detective so early. But, I think it will be worth me going back through some old posts, as I don’t think **Projammer** is scum at this point, and nobody else really has gotten a lot of votes lately. Still not sure on **Lightnin** though. [/QUOTE] That’s all fair, although I’d argue that my reasons for voting for you again were perfectly clear when I voted: I thought you were suspicious on day 1, and other factors changed my mind. But as the game has gone on you’ve done very little to convince me you’re innocent, and taken a few actions (summarized above) which make me worry you aren’t. And so I might be paranoid, but your response is so indirect (yea, I might be scum. But other people might be too. Think about THAT!), and you follow it up with that last paragraph which comes off as stunningly insincere to me: it looks like you’re making a particular point of looking for suspicious activity, so we’ll notice. And the only ones who would have a reason to do that would be scum. I’m not anywhere near convinced you’re guilty, and in fact I’d say I’m only 40% convinced. But I just wanted to mention how many alarm bells your response raises for me. ^^ ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/897 "2007-05-01T12:53:51Z")
[QUOTE=fluiddruid] Let’s remember that the Detective only had one night to investigate. Not everything can be a breadcrumb. [/QUOTE] True, but something had better be or the Detective is a worse player than I give him credit for. Somehow, I can’t see **Kyrie** leaving no breadcrumb, so it only matters what he left. My FOS and vote is based on: 1. The fact that dnooman and projammer are always mentioned together in **Kyrie** ’s posts- the detective can only investigate one person, so if he has investigated \*\*projammer \*\* its likely he’d have mentioned him specifically. That leaves the un-FOSing of **Blastermaster** and the vote for you as possible crumbs. 1. **Kyrie** mentioned you specifically as possibly scum twice - the second post he voted and gave a long list of reasons. 2. He un-FOS’d **Blastermaster** , but when I mentioned there were flaws with his logic he didn’t post any further on the subject, rather than pushing it to leave a trail that **Blastermaster** should be trusted if anything happened to him. Also, if **Kyrie** voted for you twice, as you state, rather than following bandwagons, isn’t it more likely he investigated the person he suspected? I haven’t checked his posts to see who he suspected on day 1 yet, but that could be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/898 "2007-05-01T13:03:43Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] 3) I haven’t checked his posts to see who he suspected on day 1 yet, but that could be interesting. [/QUOTE] **kyrie** voted **Naf1138** on Day 1, then unvoted him and voted for **Omi no Kami**. His only vote on Day 2 was for **fluiddruid**. **fluiddruid** , I don’t really see how you can classify yourself as “one of the more active posters” when you have even less posts than I do and I have been accused of not participating enough. You might want to come up with some better arguments because that one isn’t working. vote fluiddruid ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/899 "2007-05-01T13:07:52Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] Also, if **Kyrie** voted for you twice, as you state, rather than following bandwagons, isn’t it more likely he investigated the person he suspected? [/QUOTE] Sorry **fluiddruid** , but I can’t find the second vote you mentioned. As far as I can see, Kyrie voted for you once on the second day, after mentioning he was suspicious of you in an earlier post. Could you give a post reference? ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2007, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/900 "2007-05-01T13:10:57Z")
And fluiddruid - if not everything can be a breadcrumb, do you think the detective left one, and if so, what do you think it was? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=46)