# Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 17, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527 "2007-04-17T21:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1021 "2007-05-03T11:32:44Z")
**Blaster Master:** > [@](#): > > Just FTR, you don’t have everyone listed; RQ and I also have no vote. **Rachm Qoch** voted for **fluiddruid** in Post #966. **SnakesCatLady’s** tally confuses **Rachm Qoch** and **Omi No Kami** , the latter of whom voted and then unvoted. Updated vote count to follow soon. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1022 "2007-05-03T13:37:32Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] **Blaster Master:** **Rachm Qoch** voted for **fluiddruid** in Post #966. **SnakesCatLady’s** tally confuses **Rachm Qoch** and **Omi No Kami** , the latter of whom voted and then unvoted. Updated vote count to follow soon. [/QUOTE] Thanks for the verification, I was just going off of what was there, and I noticed it was missing two names including mine. Honestly, I don’t keep very tight notes on the current vote count because you already do it so well for me. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1023 "2007-05-03T14:05:32Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] I disagree - I think it was partly because Kyrie wasn’t following the herd on the main bandwagon, and was making a strong case against fluiddruid. He’d also made it clear he wasn’t going to be dissuaded. Anyone who could be a leader would be a threat to the mafia. Also, if they didn’t think Kyrie was the Detective, his posts may have made the real Detective check fluiddruid out that night, or the next. If fluiddruid was scum, that would put him at risk of discovery. And besides, [P589](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8502774&postcount=589) shows NAF’s voting record, and we didn’t exactly follow that up the next day (the Projammer/dnooman bandwagon didn’t seem to use NAF’s vote as a driving force). If Kyrie wasn’t the Detective, would we have even looked at his vote if he wasn’t around to press the case? [/QUOTE] Point taken. I suppose I’ve been over analyzing to the point where I expect a bluff or even a double-bluff to be more probable than a simple basic mafia ploy, and I haven’t given it the amount of consideration it’s worth. Assuming **fluiddruid** is scum, and that the mafia probably didn’t know **Kyrie** was the detective, it very well could have removed a great deal of suspicion from her. OTOH, I figure they also would have known that if suspicion wouldn’t be cast on **fluiddruid** because one of her main lynching proponents is now dead, assuming **Projammer** is in cahoots with her, then wouldn’t they be worried he’d be the target today instead? He BARELY escaped death yesterday. Unless they figured he’d probably be the lynchee today, and so they would try and use the night kill to remove the suspicion from **fluiddruid** , by having **Kyrie** dead and then have her vote against what would have been the lost cause of **Projammer**. Either way, I think you have a valid point there, in that the obvious ploy may be the most likely. > [@](#): > > Probably because SnakeCatLady didn’t defend her vote as emphatically - Kyrie posted a second time saying he knew there was an argument against the vote, but was standing by it. As far as I can tell SnakesCatLady voted once, and didn’t press her case. If fluiddruid is scum, she’s less of a threat, if he is town she won’t really point suspicion at him as much. I will agree that I think **Kyrie** ’s vote is more damaging than **SCL** ’s was, and thus is more of a threat to the mafia if **fluiddruid** is mafia, or more damning evidence if she is town making **Kyrie** the intuitive choice regardless of their strategy. Again, my concern here was that the ploy may have been more intricate than what was was discussed above, and may have involved a subplot, that is to get her vote from being the damning one of a townie lynch AND hide herself by voting for **fluiddruid** , so when one of them died later, the other would look cleaner. > [@](#): > > I think today has been useful regardless. If fluiddruid isn’t scum, then he isn’t the breadcrumb either. Some posters have had very interesting reactions (I will say I am still looking closely at **Lightnin’** , after his rush to lynch earlier today) and several voting patterns are clearer. I absolutely agree with you here. I defended **Lightnin’** early because his bandwagon appeared to be largely driven by mistakes of inexperience as opposed to scum tells. However, after seeing his apparent speed-lynch vote and his seemingly thought out, but ultimately poor, defense, it’s starting to look a lot more like an act than simple naivete. That said, I’m still inclined to vote to lynch **Projammer** tomorrow, but if fluiddruid comes up town and other events make it look like the “trifecta” are in fact all town, I could see myself voting to lynch **Lightnin’** tomorrow instead. Hell, he could be the fourth fourth mafia member on top of the “trifecta”. Now we just need to look for the fifth (I can’t imagine there being six plus a recruit, that’s insane!) ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1024 "2007-05-03T15:00:36Z")
Have to do this now, and quickly, since I’m about to go to the hospital and don’t know when I’ll be online again (blew my damn knee out, it seems). Of late, I’m slightly more suspicious of **Projammer** than I am of **fluiddruid** (but only slightly). Now, since I’ve proven to myself that my instincts in this game suck rocks, I’m very tempted to go away from my suspicions and either vote **fluiddruid** , or even say “hell with it” and toss a vote in some other, random direction. Then I realize that would be fricking ridiculous. Suspicions are there for a reason – if that reason is because they’re scum who slipped up, then woo hoo. If it’s because they’re town, but the actual scum made them look bad, then so be it. That would suck, but second-guessing every single thing will make you crazy. Vote **Projammer**. ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1025 "2007-05-03T15:30:40Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] That said, I’m still inclined to vote to lynch **Projammer** tomorrow, but if fluiddruid comes up town and other events make it look like the “trifecta” are in fact all town, I could see myself voting to lynch **Lightnin’** tomorrow instead. Hell, he could be the fourth fourth mafia member on top of the “trifecta”. Now we just need to look for the fifth (I can’t imagine there being six plus a recruit, that’s insane!) [/QUOTE] Completely in agreement. Couldn’t have said it better myself. I almost said something about **Lightnin’** in my last post, but I figured that I had abused him a great deal already on Day Two. Two things to worry about now: 1. What are we going to do for the rest of today? I don’t think we should end the day early, but are we likely to get anything more than almost-mutual agreement that one of the “trifecta” needs to be lynched? 2. If we have hit the trifecta/quadfecta (tetrafecta?), expect them to do as much as possible over the next few days to try to distance themselves from one another. **Lightnin’** had voted for **Projammer** and says he has strong suspicions, but that could be to throw us off the scent. We have to remember how scummy they looked to us, even if they manage to pull off some very pro-town seeming stuff in the next few days. I expect we’ll see some desperate false role-claiming. I think we’ve already seen some with **Projammer**. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1026 "2007-05-03T15:41:40Z")
[QUOTE=Millit the Frail] Completely in agreement. Couldn’t have said it better myself. I almost said something about **Lightnin’** in my last post, but I figured that I had abused him a great deal already on Day Two. Two things to worry about now: 1. What are we going to do for the rest of today? I don’t think we should end the day early, but are we likely to get anything more than almost-mutual agreement that one of the “trifecta” needs to be lynched? 2. If we have hit the trifecta/quadfecta (tetrafecta?), expect them to do as much as possible over the next few days to try to distance themselves from one another. **Lightnin’** had voted for **Projammer** and says he has strong suspicions, but that could be to throw us off the scent. We have to remember how scummy they looked to us, even if they manage to pull off some very pro-town seeming stuff in the next few days. I expect we’ll see some desperate false role-claiming. I think we’ve already seen some with **Projammer**. [/QUOTE] For my part, I’m just waiting for the official vote count. And, concerning **Lightnin’** at least, he hasn’t done a single thing to allay _my_ suspicions. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1027 "2007-05-03T15:48:01Z")
(Sorry about the knee, **Hal**.) We still have a few people who haven’t voted, and I hope we will hear from them soon. I think last minute voting is fairly suspicious, it doesn’t give the person voted against time to defend themselves against the accusations. I realize that if I have made a mistake in voting for **fluiddruid** I will really have opened myself up to charges of being scum, since I have voted for her both on Day 2 and Day 3. It is a risk I am willing to take. If I am lynched or night-killed the town will have a good record of who has argued against me to use in seeking revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1028 "2007-05-03T15:48:24Z")
**DiggitCamara:** > [@](#): > > For my part, I’m just waiting for the official vote count. Done and done. **Updated Vote Count** 5 – **fluiddruid** (tirial, SnakesCatLady, Idle Thoughts, Rachm Qoch, nesta) 3 – **Projammer** (Lightnin’, Millit the Frail, Hal Briston) 1 – **SnakesCatLady** (CaerieD) Nine votes to lynch; otherwise, the day ends in approximately thirty-six hours. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1029 "2007-05-03T15:56:44Z")
I realize I haven’t voted yet, so let me lay out my thinking and vote. I have three main suspects. Fluiddruid, CaerieD and Projammer. First **fluiddruid**. This is a tough one. But I’m going with the theory that she’s being framed. The only thing that gives me pause is that Kyrie turned out to be detective, the scum who murdered her couldn’t have known that. But if they were framing Fluiddruid that wouldn’t have made a difference, they were simply killing someone who was flatly accusing a townie of being scum in order to point the finger at the townie. The double-bluff is a possibility, but that’s a bit too baroque, too likely to go wrong. So, my gut tells me this is a frame. Not that Fluiddruid isn’t one of the top suspects, just that I can’t vote for her…this time. **CaerieD**. I voted for her in the first round on the grounds of not participating. That’s changed. But…I still can’t help but feel her strategy analysis is intended to sound reasonable…but exactly wrong. Talk about what the scum might do, knowing the scum won’t do that because of course she’s scum. Still, this is nothign more than a gut feeling. And anyway, a vote against her right now would be meaningless, since there’s no one else voting against her. **Projammer**. I held off voting against him last turn. I was pretty sure dnooman was town, but now we have proof. And Projammer pretty neatly slipped the noose off his own neck and put it on dnooman. Sure, a townie knows he’s a townie and doesn’t want to die. But I liked the way dnooman faced his death without fear. Projammer seemed a little more desparate. So…vote Projammer. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1030 "2007-05-03T16:03:27Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] **DiggitCamara:** Done and done. **Updated Vote Count** 5 – **fluiddruid** (tirial, SnakesCatLady, Idle Thoughts, Rachm Qoch, nesta) 3 – **Projammer** (Lightnin’, Millit the Frail, Hal Briston) 1 – **SnakesCatLady** (CaerieD) Nine votes to lynch; otherwise, the day ends in approximately thirty-six hours. [/QUOTE] Thanks, **Gadarene**. I’ll give 3 reasons for my vote: 1. I still distrust **Lightnin’**. And I won’t be voting for the same person he voted for this day 2. I, for one, prefer to have the lynchee decided by our votes, not by [Random.org](http://Random.org) 3. One thing that hasn’t been mentioned was that **fluiddruid** constructed the argument that made **dnooman** jump on **percypercy** ’s bandwagon So, for what it’s worth, I’ll throw my weight on this bandwagon: vote fluiddruid ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1031 "2007-05-03T16:10:27Z")
**Updated Updated Vote Count** 6 – **fluiddruid** (tirial, SnakesCatLady, Idle Thoughts, Rachm Qoch, nesta, DiggitCamara) 4 – **Projammer** (Lightnin’, Millit the Frail, Hal Briston, Lemur866) 1 – **SnakesCatLady** (CaerieD) ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1032 "2007-05-03T16:47:14Z")
I am also loathe to subject myself to guilt by association to **Lightnin’** by voting for the same person he does, but I’m going to anyway. **Vote Projammer**. I still don’t buy the roleclaim, and for someone who was saved from the noose by chance yesterday I think he’s been pretty quiet. Perhaps that will change now that he seems to be approaching another possible tie-breaker. Also, with 36 hours remaining, imho I have a hard time considering votes being made now and over the next 12 hours as being “last minute”. But to each their own. If I’m voting for the same person that I voted for yester-game-day, and I’ve consistently maintained them on my list of possible scum through this day, even if some would consider my vote late, it is at least not a late-arriving surprise. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1033 "2007-05-03T17:04:30Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] Also, with 36 hours remaining, imho I have a hard time considering votes being made now and over the next 12 hours as being “last minute”. But to each their own. If I’m voting for the same person that I voted for yester-game-day, and I’ve consistently maintained them on my list of possible scum through this day, even if some would consider my vote late, it is at least not a late-arriving surprise. [/QUOTE] I don’t consider votes made today or tonight to be last minute. It is only when votes start arriving a few hours before the end of the day that I consider them last minute. My post was made hoping to avoid that, to give any accused time to defend themselves. I’m sorry if it came across the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![Rachm\_Qoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Rachm\_Qoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachm_Qoch)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1034 "2007-05-03T17:05:30Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] I am also loathe to subject myself to guilt by association to **Lightnin’** by voting for the same person he does, but I’m going to anyway. **Vote Projammer**. I still don’t buy the roleclaim, and for someone who was saved from the noose by chance yesterday I think he’s been pretty quiet. Perhaps that will change now that he seems to be approaching another possible tie-breaker. Also, with 36 hours remaining, imho I have a hard time considering votes being made now and over the next 12 hours as being “last minute”. But to each their own. If I’m voting for the same person that I voted for yester-game-day, and I’ve consistently maintained them on my list of possible scum through this day, even if some would consider my vote late, it is at least not a late-arriving surprise. [/QUOTE] Am I mistaken, or has **Projammer** failed to provide a single post of any substance this game day? Or a single post at all since Tuesday? He’s not a lurker and can’t claim the **percypercy** defence, and he’s been on the Dope in other threads as recently as [14 hours ago](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8531136&postcount=18). Is he laying low trying not to give us more rope for him to hang himself? Has he been carefully crafting his posts as to not give away to much? I’m of a mind to just go ahead put my vote back on **Projammer** again, and would if I were more unsure about **fluiddruid** , but it’s only fair to let him speak first. **Projammer** , what’s the story? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1035 "2007-05-03T17:11:19Z")
[QUOTE=Rachm Qoch] **Projammer** , what’s the story? [/QUOTE] I’ve been wondering about this, myself. He’s been very, very quiet- with no attempt to defend himself. Of course, defending one’s actions merely makes one more suspicious, according to some people here, so I guess that might mean he’s playing smart. But if he’s playing smart, why the Do-Gooder claim? ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1036 "2007-05-03T17:36:38Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] I’ve been wondering about this, myself. He’s been very, very quiet- with no attempt to defend himself. Of course, defending one’s actions merely makes one more suspicious, according to some people here, so I guess that might mean he’s playing smart. But if he’s playing smart, why the Do-Gooder claim? [/QUOTE] It got me to not vote for him yesterday. If he’s a townie trying to save his skin its understandable. Unfortunately its unprovable, so he could still be mafia. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1037 "2007-05-03T17:40:52Z")
[QUOTE=Blaster Master] That’s an excellent point, and an angle I had not yet considered. It seems fairly clear to me that **Kyrie** was killed, not because she was thought to be the detective, as I don’t think anyone saw that one coming, but because it was emminently clear that they wanted to frame \*\*fluiddruid \*\* either as a bluff, or a double-bluff. Alternatively, why didn’t they kill **SnakesCatLady** , would it not have accomplished the same effect? \ [/QUOTE] Yeah, I think it’s a pretty good point too. Especially when I brought it up both [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8526907&postcount=959) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8530052&postcount=1004). 😛 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1038 "2007-05-03T17:49:55Z")
[QUOTE=Idle Thoughts] Yeah, I think it’s a pretty good point too. Especially when I brought it up both [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8526907&postcount=959) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8530052&postcount=1004). 😛 😉 [/QUOTE] Hey now! I never claimed I got the first person who posted it, only the first time I read it. At least it’s nice to know it was initially proposed by someone of whom I’m not suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1039 "2007-05-03T17:56:56Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] It got me to not vote for him yesterday. If he’s a townie trying to save his skin its understandable. Unfortunately its unprovable, so he could still be mafia. [/QUOTE] Actually, a claim like that is worse than just unprovable. [ul] [li]It actually diminishes the pool of players amongst which the power roles could be divided, which helps scum.[/li][li]It makes his personal role (if true) worthless, by lessening the chance scum wastes their only recruitment chance on him, which helps scum.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1040 "2007-05-03T18:45:29Z")
[QUOTE=DiggitCamara] Actually, a claim like that is worse than just unprovable. [ul] [li]It actually diminishes the pool of players amongst which the power roles could be divided, which helps scum.[/li][li]It makes his personal role (if true) worthless, by lessening the chance scum wastes their only recruitment chance on him, which helps scum.[/li][/ul] [/QUOTE] Agreed. It’s also arguably the best power role for Scum to claim, in that there’s supposed to be two of 'em. There’s no way for the legitimate Do-Gooders to know that it’s a false claim, since they only know of their own, personal Do-Gooder status. I don’t understand how anyone could see a Do-Gooder claim such as his as anything other than a panicked Scum “don’t lynch me!”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=53)