# Mafia The Game III: Kinder and Gentler **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 17, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527 "2007-04-17T21:34:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 80
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1581 "2007-05-16T22:58:16Z")
**Updated Vote Count** 4 – **Lightnin’** (DiggitCamara, Millit the Frail, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, nesta) 3 – **SnakesCatLady** (Idle Thoughts, CaerieD, Lemur866) 3 – **CaerieD** (Lightnin’, SnakesCatLady, Blaster Master) 1 – **nesta** (Hal Briston) 1 – **Rachm Qoch** (Omi No Kami) 1 – **Idle Thoughts** (tirial) 1 – **Lemur866** (Rachm Qoch) Dusk falls in two minutes. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1582 "2007-05-16T23:00:21Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] 1 – **nesta** (Hal Briston) 1 – **Rachm Qoch** (Omi No Kami) 1 – **Idle Thoughts** (tirial) 1 – **Lemur866** (Rachm Qoch) [/QUOTE] I find this whole section surprising. ---
**Author:** ![CaerieD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@CaerieD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaerieD)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1583 "2007-05-16T23:03:43Z")
[QUOTE=ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies] I find this whole section surprising. [/QUOTE] It seems rather…overly cautious. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1584 "2007-05-16T23:04:21Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] Sorry - I wasn’t aware I had flown off the handle. Actually, looking at my post again, I’m still not aware I flew off the handle. Where do you see that, because I don’t see anything particularly angry in it. [/quote] Well, mainly, voting for someone who displayed suspicion of you, even though they didn’t even vote for you. You voted for me, though. Yet do you see me unvoting **SCL** and voting for you in return? No. Even if I hadn’t voted yet, I wouldn’t be as hasty if the situation was reversed. I’d say “Oh, well, you have a good point there. I see what you’re saying. I wasn’t recruited, though”. Would I expect you to believe me? Probably not. Would I have believed you had you done/said just that? Probably not. But it certainly wouldn’t have futhered any suspicions of you either. Whereas unvoting someone else and getting so defensive to the point of voting for a person who merely said they were suspicious of you, does. [quote] I do see several logical reasons why I think you were recruited. However, I said the town would be in trouble if you were recruited, and I think I was right. We are. [/quote} _shrugs_ I wasn’t recruited though. So your fears are unfounded. (see above) > [@](#): > > I don’t know - I never suggested that. Why don’t you tell me, since its your idea? My idea? It was a rhetorical question. One you think aloud into a post in this game. And as far as I’ve seen, not the first by far. [You even DID mention it yourself here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8567688&postcount=1427) But in case you still think it’s “my” idea, other members said similiar things to how it didn’t make sense [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8546780&postcount=1181) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8546898&postcount=1187). I actually go on to reply to a few of those by making [these](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8546704&postcount=1178) [two](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8547082&postcount=1193) posts. Just to show you it wasn’t even “my idea” back then. I was in the same boat as you, figuring anything could be possible. It was only after the SECOND no kill night that started me thinking and turning it over in my mind. I then went back and figured that yeah, similiar to ideas expressed earlier, it makes more sense now (after the second no-kill) that the FIRST, if any, would have been a save (rather than a wasted recruitment) and the SECOND would have been a recruitment of that person that was “saved” on the first night. That alone, you can’t deny, makes a lot and MORE sense than anything so far. So…by other reasoning, thinking they would have tried to hit you or I that first night (something you FULLY CONCEED to thinking a few times in this thread) it makes me think they hit you, and then recruited. Hey, maybe they didn’t. Maybe they tried to hit someone, found them protected either by them being the Doc themselves or a lucky NW save and then recruited THEM. I just singled you out with my own sense and your own admission: That the mafia would most likely try to take us out. > [@](#): > > I agree. However, although you aren’t my first pick for the Doctor, it is likely they picked up a detail about the poster I believe to be the Doctor I mentioned - a slip on my part as that information did not need to be given out and wasn’t accurate - and recruited the most likely candidate. While I can see this being a very possble case, there are two things I disagree with. Number one being, I’m not scum so I obviously wasn’t recruited. But since you don’t know this, I’ll have to hope number two makes you understand better: Namely that I think the first no kill was someone they found that they couldn’t kill. So if YOU are still YOU (and protown) and I am still me (and protown), then either: A. The Doc was someone else, was self protecting, and they tried hitting them. B. The Doc was someone else, was protecting ANOTHER person (who was NOT me or you since we’re both claiming we weren’t recruited), and they tried to hit that other person. or C. The NW made the save on SOMEONE, who the Mafia just happened to try hitting. In all of these cases, I can see the mafia recruiting the person they tried to hit, thinking it may have been the Doctor. ALSO in all of these cases, it makes me wonder WHY it wouldn’t have either been you or I they tried to hit the first time to try to get one of us out the game. > [@](#): > > Really? You didn’t believe that scheme could have worked before. You had to be reminded of it repeatedly the day before. Now you are basing your whole case on it? What changed overnight? Nothing changed. You can read from my posts above and the past ones I linked to that I was of the same mind. But TWO no-kills in a row? Well, we KNOW one of them had to have been a save. This is 100 percent guarenteed. No ifs, ands, or buts. One had to be a save. Maybe they both were but let’s stick with what we know for sure. One of them was. And IF only one of them was, I think it was the first no kill. Cause, as I now say and others have said, a recruitment that first day would make NO sense at all. By itself, I disagreed. I thought anything was possible. With TWO no-kills though, it makes me think the first one WAS a save actually and the second was a recruit of said saved person the night before. > [@](#): > > The no-kill wouldn’t suddenly make you start believing my scheme worked, unless you’d come into new information. And vica versa. > [@](#): > > They may have hit the actual Doctor who was self-protecting, if he gave a tell they picked up on. They may have hit a townie who the Doctor was protecting (unlikely). They may have been blocked by the Nightwatchman. Snipped some. NOW see, this is what I’m saying. You seem to understand it here but yet not when I’ve said it before. I no longer think, however, the first night was a recruitment. It would have made no sense without further info. This isn’t anything like “new info”. This is common sense. Very plausible things to consider. Now just add that to the sense that it seems they would try to get one of us out, it makes me suspicious of you. That’s all. Suspicious. I never voted for you. I just said I was suspicious. So going back to the basics/beginning, you did seem like you were getting hasty a bit. Or they may have recruited. > [@](#): > > But I am very interested in why you dropped CaerieD, who you thought was scum more than fluiddruid yesterday for SnakesCatLady? What changed? I explained in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8559289&postcount=1363). Note: Well before the night we had last and there was any chance of recruitment. And then, the next day, I continued it (and expanded on it) [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8568826&postcount=1445). Those posts were made on opposite sides of the night. Yet you see my thoughts and reasonings don’t waver. > [@](#): > > Knowledge that\*\* fluiddruid\*\* is scum surely makes **CaerieD** , who defended her, helped save her on Day 3, and voted on the bandwagon she started on Day One look more like scum, so why did you drop her? Because others grew higher on my suspicions list. That still makes her look shady, yeah. But how doesn’t it make **SCL** voting for her all three times and also being mentioned specifically by **fluiddruid** any less shady? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1585 "2007-05-16T23:06:42Z")
[QUOTE=tirial] **Blastermaster** , I’m not voting for **CaerieD** or **Lightnin’** because I can’t tell the difference. Unfortunately I’m still not certain they are scum. The vote for you was because you weren’t in danger of being lynched. The reactions from other members of the block would tell me more than yet another vote for **CaerieD**. My first pick would still be one of those two, but as I can’t tell the difference (I’ve given up on getting straight answers out of **Lightnin’** ) and \*\*Idle Thoughts \*\* has changed his pattern since yesterday, I’m taking the chance of getting some answers and voting for someone I actually think is scum. [/QUOTE] I’m fairly certain **Lightnin’** is town and everyone is making a huge mistake on him. Same with **CaerieD**. I could be wrong. But I don’t feel I am from observances I have made and reasonings I’ve thought. But again, what pattern have I changed? I said the same thing both BEFORE the last night and AFTER the last night. So… 😕..how is that changing anything? ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1586 "2007-05-16T23:08:24Z")
Nevermind, **Tirial**. Night cometh. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1587 "2007-05-16T23:23:14Z")
Where’s our results? I’m dying here! ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1588 "2007-05-16T23:23:29Z")
\*On his way to the gallows, **Lightnin’** off-handedly rescues a kitten from a tree, helps his kid sister with her homework, walks an elderly lady across the street, spreads his jacket atop a puddle of mud for grateful passers-by, and kicks a mime in the testicles. You guessed it, folks. **Lightnin’** , a Do-Gooder, is dead.\* The next day will dawn at 7:30 p.m. my time on Friday. All night instructions should be submitted by then, or I’m gonna whoop ya. ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1589 "2007-05-16T23:27:26Z")
Well, there goes the other DoGooder. RIP **Lightnin’**. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1590 "2007-05-16T23:30:24Z")
Goddamnittohell ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1591 "2007-05-16T23:30:31Z")
Arg! I’m chomping to tear into analysis of this debacle, but I’ve got to bite my tongue for what, 3 more days? All I can say is that this is a very interesting development. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1592 "2007-05-16T23:32:14Z")
(I get one goodbye post, correct?) Heh… Told ya so. Avenge me! _urk!_ ---
**Author:** ![CaerieD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@CaerieD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaerieD)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1593 "2007-05-16T23:32:59Z")
Oh for the love of… Sorry to see you go, **Lightnin’**. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1594 "2007-05-16T23:46:54Z")
Yeah, figured as much. Sigh…hats off to ya, **Lightnin’**. ---
**Author:** ![nesta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a4c791/32.png) [@nesta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nesta)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2007, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1595 "2007-05-16T23:47:50Z")
Another do-gooder? How is it both of them managed to look so bad on Day 1 and not redeem themselves? Sorry for believing you were scum **Lightnin’**. At least you got to tell us you told us so. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1596 "2007-05-17T00:11:14Z")
Sorry I suspected you, **Lightnin’**. ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1597 "2007-05-17T00:28:29Z")
☹ Sorry and totally embarrassed. I must have let my stubbornness take hold of me, because I had it out for you from the beginning. Though I might have changed my mind due to the discussion I missed (everything between 3 and 7:30), I doubt it. I’ll avenge you, **Lightnin’**! Updated vote spreadsheet to come. I’m going to use this time to do some major reading. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1598 "2007-05-17T00:29:49Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] (I get one goodbye post, correct?) Heh… Told ya so. Avenge me! _urk!_ [/QUOTE] Oh my… our only other Do-Gooder. Hopefully we can at least glean some useful information from your lynch. ---
**Author:** ![tirial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@tirial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tirial)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1599 "2007-05-17T05:31:08Z")
Thought so. It just didn’t feel right. Sorry **Lightnin’**. ---
**Author:** ![Rachm\_Qoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Rachm\_Qoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachm_Qoch)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2007, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527/1600 "2007-05-17T06:20:46Z")
Sorry **Lightnin’**. Glad you weren’t the Doctor or Watchman. I know, it’s a small consolation (for us, at least). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=79) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-iii-kinder-and-gentler/400527.md?page=81)