# MAFIA: The Road to Canterbury - Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 21, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807 "2012-06-21T01:57:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/241 "2012-06-28T05:35:13Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I really don’t like how his reaction to the game is how screwed town is. You are misrepresenting what I said. You accuse me of encouraging town not to try, when what I actually said was that town can’t afford to make silly mistakes. It’s not pessimism, its strategy. I never said town was screwed. I said the game is difficult for town, because of the reasons I listed. I also made suggestions for how to minimize those problems for town. You are obviously just looking for a reaction with your vote. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/242 "2012-06-28T05:49:28Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Who won De’endee? > > For those who weren’t in it, that’s a rhetorical question. The Scum did. I was part of them, and using multi-votes to avoid accountability was part of my strategy. > > If you vote for the leader and the runner up, you might as well not have voted for all the difference you make to the result. That’s a great place for scum to be. > > If you vote for the Town leader and throw away a solo vote on a Scum teammate, you can duck responsibility for the mislynch and later look good if they get nabbed. > > If your votes don’t express a preference, they contain much less information. So we should be suspicious of people who muddy the vote record. but scum didn’t win because of the double votes. most players used both votes on the same person in the latter Days. it was the refusal to lynch **Red Skeezix** while not believing **Shadow Facts** among other things that hurt town. scum played well and town played poorly. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/243 "2012-06-28T12:36:36Z")
I promised I would whittle down my votes if possible **unvote Hal Briston** The case against him is interesting, and I’m sympathetic enough to the line of thinking to keep an eye on it. **unvote TexCat** Both **TexCat** and **Tengu** advocated for a no-lynch and when it was apparent one wasn’t going to happen, voted for **Visorslash**. I’m weary of later votes against **Visor** , as it seems an easy place for scum to hide. **TexCat** did voice suspicions of **Visor** early on, so I have to give the slight edge there. Speaking of, I don’t think **Visor** is scum necessarily, but his defeatism and lack of activity has been very unhelpful, so if we’re going to mis-lynch, I’m okay with it being him. Let’s just hope he’s not a major power role. Players that I’ll be keeping an eye on: Hal Briston KellyCriterion Snickers TexCat ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/244 "2012-06-28T12:41:58Z")
Visorslash - 4 votes - Mahaloth (136); Tengu (138); Visorslash (224); Enderw24 (230) NO LYNCH - 3 votes - texcat (122); Tengu (138); Hal Briston (155) Tengu - 2 vote - fubbleskag (187); KellyCriterion (225) Texcat - 1 votes - Mosier (192) Enderw24 - 1 votes - Alka Seltzer (131) Hal Briston - 1 votes - Stanislaus (144); Snickers - 1 vote - Stanislaus (226); Mental Guy (239) Mosier - 1 vote - Inner Stickler (240) ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/245 "2012-06-28T13:04:43Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > Well, sorry. It’s not personal. It’s just that you’ve given me a scummy vibe. And there’s still plenty of time to respond, so… > > Sorry it’s got you so riled. And it’s only 4:20 here. It’s a totally different time wherever KellyCriterion has got to. You’ve got lots of time to show me why I’m wrong. No apologies necessary, except from me. The gist of my response is the same – I think you’re trying to build something off of honest discussion/suggestions, but my tone was outside the lines. A bad workday had just gotten worse, and reading that just when I thought the day was done just set me off. So for that, I’m sorry. Now to read the rest of the thread and see what the 36 hours following my rant brought. 🙂 After that, I’ll respond to your direct points. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/246 "2012-06-28T13:07:25Z")
You’ve missed TexCat’s (238) and Suburban Plankton’s (228) votes for visorslash. (On preview - and Babale’s (200).) I am going to… **unvote Hal Briston** It’s difficult, because I’m suspicious of both him and Snickers for broadly the same reasons which makes it hard to pick between them. But on re-read, I notice that Snickers’ sudden engagement with Scum-hunting came after he’d already received one vote. Moreover his case against Hal not only uses a point I had made, it also uses a point sinjin had raised. (That Hal had apparently changed his mind about co-ordinating investigators.) Raising those points without acknowledging that they’d been made before seems rather like the case was cribbed together. So Snickers edges it. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/247 "2012-06-28T13:36:40Z")
I just went back and took a look at the only thing I’ve been able to talk about (apparently). Fully half of them are in response other posters, either directly below someone’s relevant post or quoting one from earlier. (Not that you’d see this if you didn’t search yourself; **Stanislaus** helpfully removed any time I quoted someone else in my response to them while making his case.) You know, like you when you’re having a discussion with others? That might be helpful? I also blather on about math a bit and go back to **Ender** ’s calculations, mostly because I wanted to be sure I was understanding it and the odds correctly. Then there’s some mod questions that I asked to clarify game mechanics that we may need to consider. Sure, I post kind of “stream of consciousness,” making muliple posts mainly because I think of something else directly after hitting Submit. But take out the discussion aspect or my direct responses to other posters, and yep, I’m totally a one trick pony. Of his 22 posts as of last night, 14 of **Stanislaus** ’s read to me to be discussing strategy. He’s made 6 that I read as scum hunting: 3 votes ( **Visorslash** , **Hal** , me), and 3 responses to return posts from **Hal** and I. (These are only my opinions; other people might think differently.) Clearly, he’s only focussed on scum hunting. And yeah, I totally jumped on **Hal** ’s bandwagon. He had a whole total of 2 votes when I voted him, on Tuesday, with ~48 hours left in the Day, clearly nowhere near enough time to respond. I probably should’ve voted for **Texcat** (3 votes) or **Visorslash** (4 votes) instead. But you know, I read and reread the thread, looking for the person I thought was most scummy. And he’s absolutley come back with a rebuttal to my points, hasn’t he? But thanks for the mischaracterizations. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/248 "2012-06-28T14:04:13Z")
**MentalGuy** , [that’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15215792&postcount=239) a seriously scummy post (and not just because it involves me). “I voted for **Visorslash** , but now I’m voting for **Snickers**. Well, no, maybe **Visorslash** , but totally **Snickers**. But I’d be OK with \*\*Visorslash \*\*anyway, guys.” Really? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/249 "2012-06-28T14:15:49Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > You are obviously just looking for a reaction with your vote. Yep. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > Speaking of, I don’t think **Visor** is scum necessarily, but his defeatism and lack of activity has been very unhelpful, so if we’re going to mis-lynch, I’m okay with it being him. Let’s just hope he’s not a major power role. _whacks fubbleskag with a trout_ What is it with this “they’re unhelpful so I want to kill them” kick people are on. Killing unhelpful players that you think are town is only making it harder on yourself! ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/250 "2012-06-28T15:54:51Z")
Afternoon all. I’ve just caught up with the thread, after falling behind to spend extra time with my fiancee before she went home (which was Tuesday). I see that Visorslash is comfortably in the lead for votes. I still have suspicions about him based on his thinking of 15 Townies, which I haven’t seen adequately explained, so I’m satisfied with his lynch. **Vote Visorslash** However, that is a weak reed. I’ll dig around a bit for something stronger. Back soon (65 minutes to earliest lynch deadline). I’d like to add; there’s a significant difference between throwing a tactic out for discussion and committing yourself to it. I posted [post=15206591]post 169[/post] when it occurred to me that there might be an issue to consider. Then I considered it. As you might guess, I’ve come down against it in the end. I’ll come back to it after the lynch. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/251 "2012-06-28T17:07:17Z")
Could-be-final vote count: 1:00PM EST **Visorslash** - 8 votes - Mahaloth (136); Tengu (138), Babale (200); Visorslash (224); Suburban Plankton (228); Enderw24 (230); Texcat (238); MHaye (250) **NO LYNCH** - 3 votes - texcat (122); Tengu (138); Hal Briston (155) **Tengu** - 2 votes - fubbleskag (187); KellyCriterion (225) **Snickers** - 2 votes - Stanislaus (226); MentalGuy (239) **Texcat** - 1 vote - Mosier (192) **Enderw24** - 1 vote - Alka Seltzer (131) **Hal Briston** - 1 vote - Snickers (207) **MHaye** – 1 vote – sinjin (197) **Mosier** – 1 vote – Inner Stickler (240) With the current vote count, **Visorslash** will be lynched. It is now after 1:00PM Eastern; Day could end at any random moment, but in any case before 5:00PM. Any votes cast (or powers submitted) subsequent to the appearance of the Dusk post will not count. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/252 "2012-06-28T17:21:36Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > Afternoon all. > > I’ve just caught up with the thread, after falling behind to spend extra time with my fiancee before she went home (which was Tuesday). > > I see that Visorslash is comfortably in the lead for votes. I still have suspicions about him based on his thinking of 15 Townies, which I haven’t seen adequately explained, so I’m satisfied with his lynch. > > **Vote Visorslash** > > However, that is a weak reed. I’ll dig around a bit for something stronger. Back soon (65 minutes to earliest lynch deadline). There is certainly a case against **Visorslash** Today, but I’ll admit it’s not terribly strong. My decision to vote for him was made when he voted for himself, but at the time I expected I’d probably change it before the end of the Day. But his complete absence since then speaks to me louder than anything he actually said while he was here. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/253 "2012-06-28T17:29:29Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > There is certainly a case against **Visorslash** Today, but I’ll admit it’s not terribly strong. My decision to vote for him was made when he voted for himself, but at the time I expected I’d probably change it before the end of the Day. But his complete absence since then speaks to me louder than anything he actually said while he was here. I don’t see his self-vote as something a Mafiate would be more likely to do than a Townie, so I don’t suspect him on those grounds. Also, if you don’t think Visorslash is Mafia but are voting for him to get rid of an unhelpful Townie, I think you’re making a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/254 "2012-06-28T17:59:50Z")
looks like it’s **Visorslash**. a runaway wagon is always troubling. anyway, as much as i believe it likely majority of scum are experienced, i am open to the idea that they may have purposely chosen a new player. so, **Vote Snickers** i don’t like his insistence that investigators shouldn’t investigate early in the game. he implies that the investigators will be shooting blind and will likely be finding town. that isn’t a bad thing. confirming a person as town is just as valuable as finding scum. also any issues about the veracity of investigations in N1 will plague results even later. the earlier the investigators use their powers, the more likely it is that they get a true result rather than near the endgame where a result is statistically more likely that it will be fooled by the Cloak. . ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/255 "2012-06-28T18:13:55Z")
Crap! Fricking _work_ getting in the way of what’s important! I haven’t had time to really to really respond the way I wanted to (damn you, ProQuest, and your inability to maintain a simple news feed!), and now we’re in “limbo time”. Well, I’ll get out there what I can for the moment, and catch back up later toDay/toNight and respond then. I still think the no-lynch would be the best course on day one (and day one only), and I’m not about to let math that arrogantly assumes we know _everything_ about the setup push me away from the idea. Maybe I’m being overly stubborn, but I feel that avoiding the exceptionally likely Day One mislynch would be the best move. Speaking of mislynches, it unfortunately looks like **Visorslash** is going to swing. His flameout doesn’t jibe with being scum to me (yes, I know, that’s what _they_ want us to think), so here’s hoping that his wasn’t an important role. I understand the reasoning – there’ve been plenty of times I’ve thought “I’ll put this person at 60% likely that they’re town, and 100% likely that their _hurting_ town anyway. Time for them to go.” – but I’m just not feeling it here. Ok, conference call in two minutes – more later. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/256 "2012-06-28T18:44:33Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > I still think the no-lynch would be the best course on day one (and day one only), and I’m not about to let math that arrogantly assumes we know _everything_ about the setup push me away from the idea. Maybe I’m being overly stubborn, but I feel that avoiding the exceptionally likely Day One mislynch would be the best move. Eeyup. ‘Lynch someone, anyone’ is pretty much a guarantee of Scum success. But, whatever. People are attached to their strategy no matter what the actual situation, and it’s too late to try to talk them out of it, so I give up. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/257 "2012-06-28T18:56:14Z")
But whether we lynch someone today or not, if we mislynch the rest of the game, we get to LYLO on Day 6 either way. But the one way has given us 6 shots at lynching scum while the other only gives us 5. Why are you arguing against more opportunities to get scum? ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/258 "2012-06-28T19:00:23Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > Eeyup. > > ‘Lynch someone, anyone’ is pretty much a guarantee of Scum success. > > But, whatever. People are attached to their strategy no matter what the actual situation, and it’s too late to try to talk them out of it, so I give up. ‘Lynch someone, anyone’ is not the same as ‘I don’t agree with a no-lynch.’ no one including you has yet to explain why a avoiding a mislynch is worth giving scum a free kill. what do you think about starting games at Night? that’s how a lot of games were some time ago in a number of boards. think it was fun for town? ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/259 "2012-06-28T19:06:48Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > no one including you has yet to explain why a avoiding a mislynch is worth giving scum a free kill. The Scum _aren’t_ getting a free kill with a no lynch. They _are_ essentially getting a free kill with a blind lynch. When a Townie dies, it doesn’t matter one whit who killed them, that’s a point toward Scum. Especially when the Scum can’t kill at will, and they can only win when we mislynch enough Townies, as is the case here. Blind lynches are the Scum’s best friend, here. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/260 "2012-06-28T19:18:48Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > I don’t see his self-vote as something a Mafiate would be more likely to do than a Townie, so I don’t suspect him on those grounds. > > Also, if you don’t think Visorslash is Mafia but are voting for him to get rid of an unhelpful Townie, I think you’re making a mistake. I didn’t say that I don’t think Visorslash is Scum. What I said (or at least what I meant) was that his total silence since he became the lynch leader is \*more \*indicative to me of his guilt than the things he posted earlier. In other words: His ‘slip’ was something that may or may not have indicated alignment…but his overall style made me lean toward him being Scum, and his self-vote tipped the scales far enough for me to vote for him at the time. But it was his silence during the latter part of the Day that ‘sealed the deal’ for me. I think it looks more like a Scum clamming up before he sticks his foot further down his throat than like a Townie giving up in frustration. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807.md?page=14)