# MAFIA: The Road to Canterbury - Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 21, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807 "2012-06-21T01:57:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/301 "2012-07-01T03:42:06Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Huh? gnarly, do you have an explanation for this? Because it looks to me like you are talking about a good time to use the cloak. i was referring to the investigation. we’ll likely won’t know when it will be a good time to use it. why don’t you just come out and say that i might have posted in the wrong place? nice smudge there. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/302 "2012-07-01T04:12:10Z")
Due to unusual circumstances, Dawn is postponed until tomorrow morning. Management apologizes for the delay. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/303 "2012-07-01T13:37:42Z")
**Dawn, Day Two** _“Well, that was unexpected,” the Poet said._ No one died during Night One. Day Two begins here, and will end between 1 and 5 PM Eastern on Thursday, July 5. Night results will be forthcoming in the next few minutes for anyone who has Night results due them. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/304 "2012-07-01T15:18:19Z")
And we’re off to a flyer! Can I suggest that if anybody does have any results from last Night that they want to share toDay, that they hold their fire until discussion is well underway? If Scum know from the beginning that that a given player has a “investigated as Town”, “investigated as Scum”, “was seen last Night” label attached, they’ll behave accordingly. If that label gets attached once they’ve already interacted with said player, the response will be much more telling. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/305 "2012-07-01T15:24:21Z")
We might need to revisit the idea someone posted earlier that scum are likely to be experienced players. I don’t see any benefit at all for scum to skip night one. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/306 "2012-07-01T15:28:09Z")
I am guessing that there was a successful protection or role-block last night. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/307 "2012-07-01T17:01:05Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > And we’re off to a flyer! > > Can I suggest that if anybody does have any results from last Night that they want to share toDay, that they hold their fire until discussion is well underway? If Scum know from the beginning that that a given player has a “investigated as Town”, “investigated as Scum”, “was seen last Night” label attached, they’ll behave accordingly. If that label gets attached once they’ve already interacted with said player, the response will be much more telling. i can’t argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/308 "2012-07-01T17:19:56Z")
Now that’s a nice way to start a game. As much as I like the intricate color **storyteller** provides, I’ll happily take a boring morning post in trade for no kills. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/309 "2012-07-01T23:25:33Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > > > Directing the investigators while the cloak could be in play is probably not a good idea. > > we may never know a good time to use it. _shrugs_ > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > i was referring to the investigation. we’ll likely won’t know when it will be a good time to use it. > > why don’t you just come out and say that i might have posted in the wrong place? nice smudge there. **vote: gnarlycharlie** Is it still a smudge if I vote? \*\*The IT that could be used in Alka’s statement was the cloak. \*\* If you were refering to whether the investigations should be USED or not, I think you would have said “when it will be a good time to use THEM.” But Alka Seltzer wasn’t even talking about when or whether to investigate, he was talking about DIRECTING the investigators. Yeah, I gotta say it looks like you posted on the wrong board, and I have to say that looks bad for Alka Seltzer as well. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/310 "2012-07-02T02:57:32Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > **vote: gnarlycharlie** > > Is it still a smudge if I vote? \*\*The IT that could be used in Alka’s statement was the cloak. \*\* If you were refering to whether the investigations should be USED or not, I think you would have said “when it will be a good time to use THEM.” But Alka Seltzer wasn’t even talking about when or whether to investigate, he was talking about DIRECTING the investigators. Yeah, I gotta say it looks like you posted on the wrong board, and I have to say that looks bad for Alka Seltzer as well. well this isn’t the first time you’re wrong about me. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/311 "2012-07-02T12:18:13Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I’m not sure at this point if Visorslash should make a claim or not. It seems quite likely that he’s the Pardoner, which would mean he is Vanilla from this point on. If that is the case, then I don’t think there’s any harm in revealing it…but if that’s not the case (and someone else Pardoned him), then I’m thinking we wouldn’t want the Scum to know that…so I guess it’s best if Visorslash remain silent at this point. > > Right? makes sense to me. > [@Mosier](#): > > We might need to revisit the idea someone posted earlier that scum are likely to be experienced players. I don’t see any benefit at all for scum to skip night one. maybe they’ve convinced themselves that they can no-night-kill their way to a stalemate. 😃 > [@TexCat](#): > > vote: gnarlycharlie > > Is it still a smudge if I vote? \*\*The IT that could be used in Alka’s statement was the cloak. \*\* If you were refering to whether the investigations should be USED or not, I think you would have said “when it will be a good time to use THEM.” But Alka Seltzer wasn’t even talking about when or whether to investigate, he was talking about DIRECTING the investigators. Yeah, I gotta say it looks like you posted on the wrong board, and I have to say that looks bad for Alka Seltzer as well. this is way too hasty. **gnarly’s** comment could very easily have been an honest mistake as townie and without any prior suspicions, this is a very weak vote - especially considering how Day 1 played out. upon review, not only have you not voiced any suspicions of him, neither has anyone else so far. if we’re going to make up scenarios on behalf other players to suit our needs, what’s to stop me for suggesting that your vote is simply an attempt to cover up the smudge you were correctly called out on? let’s assume for the moment that this was, in fact, a scum slip-up; can you explain how this implicates **Alka**? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/312 "2012-07-02T12:59:02Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > We might need to revisit the idea someone posted earlier that scum are likely to be experienced players. I don’t see any benefit at all for scum to skip night one. > [@TexCat](#): > > I am guessing that there was a successful protection or role-block last night. The alternative is that Scum used poison on **visorslash**. If so, \*\*visor \*\*will automatically be informed, as the Physician is still alive. If he is, the next questions will be: “Is the Physician Town?” and “Did they pack the antivenom?” Failing that, the most likely explanation is that Scum went for the high value target of confirmed town **visor** at the same time as one or more protective role(s) followed the same logic. Less likely is that Scum decided that \*\*visor \*\*would be too obvious a target, that protector(s) anticipated this - and both landed on the same non-visor target. There are other less likely possibilities, but I doubt it’s worth going into them now. Assuming that **visor** was protected, I would strongly suggest that the person or people responsible don’t claim at this point. Three reasons: 1) A Scum protective role could false-claim to win town cred; 2) Scum already know better than us how many pro-Town protective roles we started with - no need to let them know how many have been used. 3) Removing people from the “potentially still Power role” pool makes life easier for the Scum. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/313 "2012-07-02T13:09:34Z")
I don’t think gnarly’s “slip” is actually a slip. I really doubt TexCat would have initiated the no-lynch discussion as Scum. (I know “Scum wouldn’t do that, unless they would” but drawing attention with a radical plan on Day One is so _unnecessarily risky.) Two quotes from_ Suburban Plankton\*\* that disturb me: 1. Backing away from his \*\*visorslash \*\*vote even before we get the result: > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > There is certainly a case against **Visorslash** Today, but I’ll admit it’s not terribly strong. My decision to vote for him was made when he voted for himself, but at the time I expected I’d probably change it before the end of the Day. But his complete absence since then speaks to me louder than anything he actually said while he was here. 1. Very defensive when called on it by **sinjin**. > [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > There’s a saying: “Hindsight is 20/20”. Your logic may be unassailable here (or not, but for sake of argument let’s just assume that it is)…but your words would carry a lot more weight if you had posted them \*before \*\*\*Visorslash \*\*was Mod-confirmed. > > I’m not necessarily saying you’ve done anything wrong by saying them now, but it’s real easy to find faults in others’ logic once you know for a fact that they were wrong. \*\* vote Suburban Plankton \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/314 "2012-07-02T13:53:50Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > The alternative is that Scum used poison on **visorslash**. If so, \*\*visor \*\*will automatically be informed, as the Physician is still alive. If he is, the next questions will be: “Is the Physician Town?” and “Did they pack the antivenom?” I don’t see anything in the rules that states the scum are limited to the use of one tool per night. It just says they can be used by any member of the brotherhood. If that’s correct, they’d have no reason to use poison and forego use of a knife. > [@TexCat](#): > > If you were refering to whether the investigations should be USED or not, I think you would have said “when it will be a good time to use THEM.” This argument doesn’t hold up. The only sensible time for scum to use the cloak would be on night one, before the investigators act. **gnarlycharlie** ’s post is odd and doesn’t address my point, but “we may never know a good time to use it” makes no sense if he is referring to the cloak.The dilemma for scum is choosing a good target for the cloak. ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/315 "2012-07-02T14:49:35Z")
Apologies for not being around more N1 - weekend, you know. Damn that real life stuff! I’m not altogether behind the idea that scum would’ve targeted **Visor** last night. No, it’s not 100%, but I think that most signs point to **Visor** being the Pardoner. If so, he’s a vanilla townie at this point, and I think scum would rather knock off a power with their night kill. However, the chance that both a protector and the scum landed on the same target is pretty low, as **Stanislaus** mentions, so that’s a bit troubling. And I agree with **Mosier** ; I doubt they’d skip a chance to make a kill. I do rather like **Stanislaus** ’s idea of holding off on any investigator reveals until later toDay. **Mosier** ’s “Note that I never voted for you” in [post 272](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15219553&postcount=272) pings me, but it’s really minor. **MHaye** ’s late vote also pings me a little. He states that he didn’t find anything on a read-through, and then votes for the leading lynch candidate. But he also admits it’s weak. And it’s also D1, the hardest day to get a read anyway. I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. **SP** ’s reasoning in [post 288](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15221459&postcount=288) seems weird. Maybe he’s just thinking out loud, but he clearly states how **Visor** ’s play went down and shows why it’s a good thing for town, then immediately says that it seems wrong to him. But I have to admit my own personal bias here: I think **Visor** ’s play was brillant, myself. I doubt I’da played it that way either, but that’s because I suck out loud and never would’ve thought to do that. **gnarlycharlie** ’s [post 297](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15223387&postcount=297) kind of pings me. I tend to agree that his cloak comment isn’t a slip, but I do find it interesting that someone who voted very late in the day D1 but not for the lynch leader (full disclosure: he voted for me) suggests investigating that wagon. However, I totally agree that there’s probably scum on that wagon myself. And too, in [his case](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15217777&postcount=254) against me, he brings up points that I’d thought I’d explained my reasoning behind or had stipulated to previously (but probably not very well). I don’t know that I agree with his last sentence there, that earlier investigations are more likely to reveal true results, and it also seems in it that he knows the cloak is in play. Put this all together, and it just seems like scum trying to hide, IMO. Right now, my biggest suspicions are on **MentalGuy** and **gnarlycharlie**. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/316 "2012-07-02T14:59:51Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > I don’t think gnarly’s “slip” is actually a slip. > I really doubt TexCat would have initiated the no-lynch discussion as Scum. (I know “Scum wouldn’t do that, unless they would” but drawing attention with a radical plan on Day One is so _unnecessarily risky.) > Two quotes from_ Suburban Plankton\*\* that disturb me: > > 1. Backing away from his \*\*visorslash \*\*vote even before we get the result: > > 2. Very defensive when called on it by **sinjin**. > **vote Suburban Plankton** 1. I didn’t back away from anything. I pointed out that my initial vote on \*\*Visorslash \*\*was based on a relatively thin lead, that I expected at the time that I would probably reconsider later in the Day, but that his continued absence had changed my mind and left me more convinced of his guilt. Sure, I was wrong, but I backed away from nothing. If anything, I reinforced my initial feelings. 2. Defensive? Not really. My problem with \*\*sinjin’s \*\*post was not \*that \*he pointed out the flaws in several of the arguments against Visorslash, it was _the way_ he did it. “Sorry I wasn’t around, but here’s where you guys all screwed up” just rubbed me the wrong way. In retrospect I can see where my tone was a bit harsh, but I don’t get defensive. I’ve made way too many bad votes to start worrying about them now. * * * In other news… I can’t imagine the Scum forgoing their Kill. I know it’s often talked about as a possible strategy move, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it. So it would seem that one of our Protectors or one of our Roleblockers got lucky. I agree with \*\*Stanislaus \*\*that there’s no reason for anyone to claim responsibility at this point. The less the Scum know about the abilities still in play, the better. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/317 "2012-07-02T15:09:50Z")
I’m back from vacation. Huzzah. Interesting non-turn of events. There are three possibilities on what happened that immediately occur to me, though they’ve already been brought up by previous posters. What I find really interesting is how on D1, everyone was telling all three investigators “for God’s sake, investigate on N1!” Now D2 dawns and the build up seems to be “For God’s sakes investigators, don’t tell anyone about your investigations on N1!” ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/318 "2012-07-02T15:10:59Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > The alternative is that Scum used poison on **visorslash**. If so, \*\*visor \*\*will automatically be informed, as the Physician is still alive. If he is, the next questions will be: “Is the Physician Town?” and “Did they pack the antivenom?” Minor correction: If \*\*Visorslash \*\*(or anyone else) was poisoned, it will be _The Physician_ who will be notified. I don’t think much of \*\*Texcat’s \*\*vote on **gnarly**. Yes, gnarly’s use of the word “it” was inappropriate, but a ‘grammar slip’ is I think more likely here than a ‘Scum slip’. And I think the idea that he posted on the wrong board is _extremely_ unlikely, since he quoted **Alka Seltzer** in his post. That feature doesn’t work across message boards. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/319 "2012-07-02T15:17:34Z")
I think there may be no scum amongst the Visor voters. Zero scum on that wagon. Visor seemed to go out of his way to look suspicious, not defend himself, and disappear. Of course, the scum know that he’s town, and it looks like he’s the overwhelming favorite for lynching. They don’t need to be on that wagon; they can take the opportunity to vote for each other safely or throw some suspicions elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/320 "2012-07-02T15:31:34Z")
> [@Snickers](#): > > **gnarlycharlie** ’s [post 297](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15223387&postcount=297) kind of pings me. I tend to agree that his cloak comment isn’t a slip, but I do find it interesting that someone who voted very late in the day D1 but not for the lynch leader (full disclosure: he voted for me) suggests investigating that wagon. However, I totally agree that there’s probably scum on that wagon myself. By my count, 8 (out of 19) people voted for **Visorslash** , so yes; it’s probable that some of them were Scum. But there’s nothing unusual about that; there’s almost always at least one or two Scum on a Day 1 lynch it seems. In any case, it’s not a rare occurrence. The question that \*\*gnarly’s \*\*comment inspires is: Is it better to hunt for Scum on the Visorslash bandwagon, or off of it? Excluding Visorslash himself, there are 18 players in this game. Seven of them voted to lynch him (since he also voted for himself), so that’s 39% of the Town that were on the wagon. So it seems that if there were two or more Scum on the Visorslash bandwagon, then we’d have better luck hunting for Scum there; if there was only one, then our odds are better hunting in the rest of the Town. I would agree that “There were probably Scum on the wagon, so we should try to find them there” is an ‘obvious’ strategy, whether right or wrong in this instance, so it’s not unlikely that a townie would suggest it. On the other hand, scum would know exactly what the chances were of an Investigator finding Scum on that bandwagon, so I could certainly see them attempting to steer the Town in that direction if it were to their advantage. I’m not calling out gnarly as Scum at this point, but it is something to think about. I will freely admit that I am always suspicious of anyone who attempts to direct Town powers, so I can’t claim to be entirely objective in the matter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807.md?page=17)