# MAFIA: The Road to Canterbury - Game Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 21, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807 "2012-06-21T01:57:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/701 "2012-07-20T13:38:11Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > Sigh…I tried to drop the hint on Day One: > > Why the hell everyone was _so_ sure everything was out in the open is beyond me, especially when **storyteller** clearly stated that may not be the case: > > Well, guess what? It _isn’t_ the case. We have at least one hidden element (and probably more) – me: > > So, there it is – I was given a role I’ve always wanted to try (Survivor), and people have used some of the most nonsensical reasoning I’ve ever seen in a Mafia game to railroad me. So, yeah, I’m pissed/bummed about it. > > I’m definitely going to work under the theory that this is a fair number of scum on my bandwagon, since there is absolutely zero good reason to be going after me. Every bit of it has been well-defended, and that defence has been frustratingly ignored and/or deliberately misinterpreted. > > So, fuck it – I’m not town, but I’m not scum either. I was definitely playing this one to ride with town. > > For what it’s worth, I didn’t use either of my kills, and never got a chance to use my power (the Miller is the only one available to me at the moment anyway). > > Also note: **story** said that I “get to find out **one of** the hidden elements of the game” (bolding mine) So I’m thinking there’s a good chance someone else here isn’t who they seem to be – perhaps someone with a more malevolent goal. > > Hopefully day lasts long enough for someone who has an _actual_ case against them to take the lead… Goddamn Hal, are you sure storyteller didn’t give you the role of crybaby instead? I mean I defended you in the last post (to an extent) but geez. Even if I believed your claim here how in the world does this display actually help your cause? “Hey everyone who thought I wasn’t Town. You’re completely wrong! Because…I’m not really Town! So don’t lynch me because I super promise I’m playing on your side. Oh and I haven’t actually used any of my powers to help town but I’ve \*really really \*wanted to help town!” Seriously, why would this reveal STOP people from lynching you? You’re NOT town! Right now you’re just pissed not because Town’s choosing the “wrong” person but because YOU, specifically, may not win the game. Well boo hoo. Oh and my count right now is that it’s 4 votes to you and 3 to Kelly with around 4 hours to go. So it’s not like it’s this unstoppable runaway train you needed to go all melodramatic over. Here, allow me, good sirree \*\*Vote KellyCriterion \*\* taaaaaaadaaaaaaaaa ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/702 "2012-07-20T13:38:28Z")
Hal, why did you say you were the Carpenter last night, instead of C&Ping your Geoffrey Chaucer role PM then? ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/703 "2012-07-20T13:41:58Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Goddamn Hal, are you sure storyteller didn’t give you the role of crybaby instead? Heh…thank you for the perspective. Sometimes a little slap in the face is required. Ok, ok…it’s just a game. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/704 "2012-07-20T13:45:43Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > So, there it is – I was given a role I’ve always wanted to try (Survivor), and people have used some of the most nonsensical reasoning I’ve ever seen in a Mafia game to railroad me. So, yeah, I’m pissed/bummed about it. Unless you think everyone voting for you is scum, this is obviously not true. Town have no reason to railroad you, and they have no reason to distort their cases. Which of us voting for you do you suspect the most? That info would be far more helpful than just calling us out as a group. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/705 "2012-07-20T13:52:13Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Hal, why did you say you were the Carpenter last night, instead of C&Ping your Geoffrey Chaucer role PM then? Because I didn’t want to reveal until I _had_ to. You’ll note that I didn’t claim Carpenter until I saw **Astral Rejection** ’s vote on me. Up until that point, I was rebutting the bad points against me, but that one pushed me over the “I’m probably screwed” line. But by that point, I had zero time left to put in my exchanged role and make the points I made this morning (kids to bed, time with the other half, etc.). Hmm…reading that back, it seems a little unclear even to me. Here’s how it went: \ Girlfriend: “Honey, can you please give me a hand?” “Be right there…” \ “Great…another vote. I’m fucked.” \ I knew I wouldn’t be on the computer from the time I sent that post until I got to work this morning, so I didn’t want to drop something like the Chaucer role out there without some explaination. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/706 "2012-07-20T14:03:34Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Which of us voting for you do you suspect the most? That info would be far more helpful than just calling us out as a group. Far and away, **Suburban Plankton** – for the points I made [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15290906&postcount=688) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15287225&postcount=682) Also, **MHaye** for points I rebutted [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15291951&postcount=693) – one being the same as **SP** ’s, plus the “go easy on the non-new newbie” bit. Are they both scum? No idea, and going by my track record in this game, I’d go as far as to say “I’d doubt it” – but every point they’ve used against me has been so excruciatingly bad, I can’t help but prescribe an anti-town motive to it (subjective, I know, but that’s how I’m seeing it). ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/707 "2012-07-20T14:30:58Z")
Thing is, even if I do believe Hal (and I probably do - I’m sure story wrote that PM, and I doubt scum would need fake role PMs given the set up) he’s probably more of a danger to Town than Scum. He’ll only impede the Scum wincon if he starts killing them, and the odds of him doing that are less than the odds of him killing Town. So the closer we get to LyLo, the bigger incentive he’ll have to push us over the edge by going after the most likely to be Town. If he turns out to be wrong and hits scum, that’s no skin off his nose - but the base probabilities are against it. I’d rather kill scum than 3rd party - but I’d rather kill 3rd party than Town. I’m going to leave my vote where it is, because at this late stage our voting has been so apathetic that there aren’t any convincing other candidates for lynch other than the perennial lurker - who I don’t feel like gambling on. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/708 "2012-07-20T14:31:36Z")
Here’s two questions for you Hal 1. You have the power of TWO kills, yet you’ve used none. You also have an extra power which you haven’t used. Why? If you’re truly on town’s side like you claim, when were you going to use your kills? Plus you’ve revealed that there’s no carpenter in the game which gives Scum one (huge) thing to not worry about anymore. So how again have you helped Town in any way? 2. Your goal, according to your claim, is to survive the game. But how does your claim help further achieve your goal? You’ve stated that you’re REALLY on town’s side which puts you, with your power, as a huge target for Scum to hit. Do you think your claim is going to allow you to win or further paint a bullseye on you from both sides? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/709 "2012-07-20T14:33:42Z")
Hal(4): Stanislaus 667, Suburban 671, Mhaye 690, Astral 692 Kelly(4): Mahaloth 681, Mentalguy 683, Hal 688, Ender 701 gnarlycharlie(1): RyJae 639 RyJae(1): Mosier 652 Mahaloth(0): [del]Stanislaus 667[/del] Ender(0): [del]Stanislaus 668[/del] **Vote Kelly** I was really hoping the shipman would take care of him but I guess they’ve decided to do their own thing instead. I’ll buy Hal’s claim. He’s either really good at faking or legitimately frustrated about the cases people have made. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/710 "2012-07-20T14:35:32Z")
Inner - do you think Kelly is scum? ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/711 "2012-07-20T14:46:16Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > 1. You have the power of TWO kills, yet you’ve used none. You also have an extra power which you haven’t used. Why? If you’re truly on town’s side like you claim, when were you going to use your kills? Plus you’ve revealed that there’s no carpenter in the game which gives Scum one (huge) thing to not worry about anymore. So how again have you helped Town in any way? Because I was trying not to reveal myself outwardly. My role PM states that my kill would be clearly outside of the known roles. So let’s say I suspect someone, kill them, and whoops, they were town. Now everyone knows there’s a third party and by the way, he’s killing townies. Not exactly going to make me look good if/when it comes time to role claim. No, I’d rather keep the kills in my back pocket until either I was forced to claim, or there were _clear_ scum targets. As to the extra power, reread my role – the only extra power available to me was the Miller. Which has the side effect of, ya know, killing me. No thanks. > [@Enderw24](#): > > 1. Your goal, according to your claim, is to survive the game. But how does your claim help further achieve your goal? You’ve stated that you’re REALLY on town’s side which puts you, with your power, as a huge target for Scum to hit. Do you think your claim is going to allow you to win or further paint a bullseye on you from both sides? Ok, that’s fine. I’d rather scum take me out and use up a kill than be mislynched. Let’s be clear – when roles are handed out, I’d rather not be scum. Unless I’ve been handed a scum role, I’m rooting for town. So even though the net result would be a loss for me anyway, if someone is going to waste a kill on me, I’d rather it be scum. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/712 "2012-07-20T15:01:38Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Inner - do you think Kelly is scum? Kelly has been coasting through the game, not posting much and what he does post is rarely of consequence. I think his odds of being scum are better than Hal’s. If he is town and Hal is thirdparty survivor, functionally their lynches are equivalently damaging and of the two, I’d rather keep Hal around because he’s playing. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/713 "2012-07-20T15:05:11Z")
**Hal** , I’m not sure what to say about your claim… \*\*storyteller \*\*promised us (in the sign-up thread) > [@](#): > > The setup will be about 98% open; there may be one or more hidden elements, but essentially the goal here is to have an open game that can be played with reduced fear of the completely unknown. > > The game will be a no-vanilla game. However, by and large all of the power roles (including the Scum power roles) will be one-shot powers only. Some roles will get to choose among several one-shot power options at the outset of the game, but will still be limited to one action for the entire game. Later, he linked us to his setup board listing all of the Town and Scum roles. You’ve now claimed a role that a) was not mentioned anywhere in the setup b) has two Vig kills, duplicating and expanding on the Shipman role c) has the potential for multiple Night actions ‘adopted’ from other players, duplicating and expanding upon the Squire role (part of it, anyway) d) is immune from Investigations, duplicating the power conferred by the Cloak of Lies Even accepting that we were told there may be some “hidden elements”, you can certainly understand why this is a little hard to swallow. On the other hand, it’s hard to imagine Scum going to this much effort to create such a detailed, very powerful, completely unexpected in an ‘open’ game, false claim…so it seems likely that you’re not Scum. The problem is, you’ve admitted to us that you’re not Town; you’ve admitted to us that it really doesn’t matter one bit which side wins this game, as long as you’re alive. Also, the difference between a “third Party Survivor” and a “PFK” is mighty slim, so even if we believe most of your claim, that still makes you potentially very dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/714 "2012-07-20T15:07:28Z")
If he is a serial killer, either he or the scum team is totally sucking at their job because there should be approximately twice as many dead people. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/715 "2012-07-20T15:15:42Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > Also, the difference between a “third Party Survivor” and a “PFK” is mighty slim, so even if we believe most of your claim, that still makes you potentially very dangerous. Which was a huge reason as to my reluctance to fully reveal early on. There’s a reason Survivors have such a lousy track record – town has little reason to take the chance. All I can say is that I’m playing this as pro-town as I can. This is _my_ story, dammit! I’d like to see the end of it! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/716 "2012-07-20T15:16:18Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > If he is a serial killer, either he or the scum team is totally sucking at their job because there should be approximately twice as many dead people. Maybe, maybe not. If he’s a Serial Killer with only 2 kills, which would explicitly reveal the fact that there \*is \*a 3rd-Party Killer in the game, he might not want to use them right out of the gate. Basically, the same argument that he gave for not using his Vig kills applies here. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/717 "2012-07-20T15:18:47Z")
A serial killer role with only 2 kills is not a serial killer. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/718 "2012-07-20T15:26:20Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > A serial killer role with only 2 kills is not a serial killer. OK, fine. My point was that there’s no way to tell if Hal’s role is “Third Party” (i.e. with a _non-exclusive_ win condition) or “PFK” (i.e. with an \*exclusive \*wincon). Now that I think about it a bit more, a PFK with only 2 kills does seem a bit weak, but perhaps the additional abilities are intended to make up for that. In the end, I don’t think it matters a lot. third Party roles have a notoriously short lifespan once they are revealed, for good reason. In my personal Mafia history, I can recall exactly one instance where a claimed Third Party was purposely allowed to live until End game…and she turned out to actually be a win-stealing PFK. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/719 "2012-07-20T15:31:03Z")
Do you remember the specific game? Because I can point you towards 3 or 4 games within the past year or so where a third party claimed and was lynched and turned out to be exactly what it said on the tin. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807/720 "2012-07-20T15:38:13Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Do you remember the specific game? Because I can point you towards 3 or 4 games within the past year or so where a third party claimed and was lynched and turned out to be exactly what it said on the tin. That’s not what I said (or at least, that’s not wnat I meant to say). I’m talking about cases where someone claimed Third party and was \*not \*subsequently killed, so that they made it to End Game. I recall that happening exactly once. It was the Dr Seuss game on the Giraffe boards; mlerose claimed Third Party Survivor, she was allowed to survive, and she turned out to be a Mad Bomber and won the game out from under everyone. Perhaps it’s because I was vocal in that game about believing her claim (I was Town) that I’m now extremely reluctant to make the same mistake again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-road-to-canterbury-game-thread/625807.md?page=37)