# Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase \[Newbie Friendly!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526 "2011-11-20T06:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/181 "2011-11-29T02:49:28Z")
If I understand it correctly, a vig is a townie who, during the night, may send a player’s name to the moderator. That player will then be killed. I have a couple of questions about that. Do we find out if a kill was a vigilante kill or a scum kill? Am I correct in understanding that the main way (other than the vig identifying him or herself) in which we as townies would find out that there was a vig among us, would be if two people got killed during one night? Or would that just lead to the conclusion that there is either a vig, or a serial killer? I guess in this case it would boil down to making sense of who got killed, and see whether the motives for these kills would vig motives, scum motives, or sk motives. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/182 "2011-11-29T02:56:10Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > If I understand it correctly, a vig is a townie who, during the night, may send a player’s name to the moderator. That player will then be killed. I have a couple of questions about that. > > Do we find out if a kill was a vigilante kill or a scum kill? Am I correct in understanding that the main way (other than the vig identifying him or herself) in which we as townies would find out that there was a vig among us, would be if two people got killed during one night? Or would that just lead to the conclusion that there is either a vig, or a serial killer? I guess in this case it would boil down to making sense of who got killed, and see whether the motives for these kills would vig motives, scum motives, or sk motives. Yes ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/183 "2011-11-29T02:58:14Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Do we find out if a kill was a vigilante kill or a scum kill? Am I correct in understanding that the main way (other than the vig identifying him or herself) in which we as townies would find out that there was a vig among us, would be if two people got killed during one night? Or would that just lead to the conclusion that there is either a vig, or a serial killer? I guess in this case it would boil down to making sense of who got killed, and see whether the motives for these kills would vig motives, scum motives, or sk motives. Not explicitly usually. Often, when a vig outs themself, they’ll claim their kills. If two people get killed in the same night judgement is usually reserved as to who killed whom. (More than one scum has been caught because they automatically assigned SK or Vig kill status to the kill they knew was not scum’s.) In games where color can be important, often the kills of one person will share similarities that match the killer. For example, in the game I mentioned earlier where I was a vig, I was Shere Khan from the Jungle Book and my targets were all described as being mauled as if by claws. When I claimed my character, everyone immediately knew who I had targeted because who else but a tiger would rip his victims to shreds? However, we’ve been told in this game we can safely ignore color. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/184 "2011-11-29T02:58:29Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > A. Some do it very well. > > B. I agree, this might be an actual psychological problem. And a lynched Townie provides much more information than just from their pre-demise contributions > C. Have you met peeker? I’d rather a Vigilante took care of the non-contributors, and we lynch the players who might yield information from the lynch and vote record. > > D. We might. We’ll know soon enough. Why6 waste an early Day lynching a lurker when that lynch gives us no information since Town and Scum could just as easily jump on that bandwagon? > > E. No one says “let’s lynch the people who the Night Kill was voting for.” It’s too easy and contains too much WIFOM. However, after a few deaths, we might see some patterns in the voting. Like a vote cast by a still living player that saved a Scum from a lynch. Like a late bandwagon jump on a doomed Scum. A) Rarely, not in my experience. But I haven’t played enough to say always. B) If it is a psychological condition, add it to the list. Also, I find it interesting that you only mention the value of info derived from lynched townies-there is info that can be gleaned from lynched scum, and we’ve taken one out, besides. C)\*\* peeker \*\*cracks my shit up. When I played with him a couple of years back, he was pretty talented, amidst all his incoherent blatherings. In my mind, he’s Dennis Hopper. I have yet to have him deny it. D) Why lynch a contributor? Although I will say that a lot of times scum will try to get town to lynch a strong player, and take out strong players at night, too. Makes it easier for them to win. (aside-I’ve always thought it would suck to be really good at this, because you’d be the first to go, all the time. If I was scum I would kill the best, first.) E) I’ve seen it. It’s stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/185 "2011-11-29T03:03:18Z")
I guess another variable that would affect the number of kills is whether a Doctor managed to protect one of the victims (or him/herself) that scum/sk/vig are targeting. I assume we also do not know when a doctor successfully protects someone? So essentially, given these parameters, the number of kills during a single night could range from 0 to 3. That oughta make for a lot of speculation come Tomorrow! ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/186 "2011-11-29T03:04:28Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > We all vote for you… definitely not a noob. 😃 > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Ed has moved to a new less analytical, more mystical pronouncements from on high style of playing. If it makes you feel better, in the two games he’s used it in so far, most of his accusations have been horribly wrong. bad boy, **Inner**. 😉 > [@fisha](#): > > 1. Do we have a vig or not? Professional opinions from more experienced players? > > I am a little disheartened at your “let the possible vig get the lurkers.” Why? in a group this large, a vig wouldn’t be unusual. it’s a fairly standard role so it can’t be excluded based on the mod’s setup. some players prefer that vigs take out lurkers rather than lynch them because with lynching you can’t analyze the reasons. everyone just says lynch X for lurking. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/187 "2011-11-29T03:04:45Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > B) If it is a psychological condition, add it to the list. Also, I find it interesting that you only mention the value of info derived from lynched townies-there is info that can be gleaned from lynched scum, and we’ve taken one out, besides. > > D) Why lynch a contributor? Although I will say that a lot of times scum will try to get town to lynch a strong player, and take out strong players at night, too. Makes it easier for them to win. (aside-I’ve always thought it would suck to be really good at this, because you’d be the first to go, all the time. If I was scum I would kill the best, first.) II) You’re mistaken if you think Ed purposefully campaigns to lynch townies. (Unless he’s scum.) The fact of the matter is that some townies are going to be lynched. The sooner we can put away the hair shirts and accept it philosophically, the better off we’ll be. Make lemonade from your townies and look for the scum who pushed their lynch. (Arguably harder with a lynched scum because scum and townies have equally valid reasons for supporting their lynch. Townies, because they want scum dead and scum because then they get townie cred.) IV)Talk to Storyteller, guiri, or BillMC about this. Several players suffer from the curse of the Night 1 NK. It can almost be worse if you survive for a few days because all of a sudden everyone’s making eyes at you. “Why aren’t you dead yet? If I were scum, I’da killed you Night 1. YOU MUST BE SCUM DIE DIE DIE” ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/188 "2011-11-29T03:06:03Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > A) Rarely, not in my experience. But I haven’t played enough to say always. > > B) If it is a psychological condition, add it to the list. Also, I find it interesting that you only mention the value of info derived from lynched townies-there is info that can be gleaned from lynched scum, and we’ve taken one out, besides. > > C)\*\* peeker \*\*cracks my shit up. When I played with him a couple of years back, he was pretty talented, amidst all his incoherent blatherings. In my mind, he’s Dennis Hopper. I have yet to have him deny it. > > D) Why lynch a contributor? Although I will say that a lot of times scum will try to get town to lynch a strong player, and take out strong players at night, too. Makes it easier for them to win. (aside-I’ve always thought it would suck to be really good at this, because you’d be the first to go, all the time. If I was scum I would kill the best, first.) > > E) I’ve seen it. It’s stupid. A) Poor Scum might do it. But we’ll catch the poor Scum anyway. Good Scum play well. B) Yes, of course, all lynches give us information. With the exception of policy lynches which Scum and town can get behind equally. And which yield us little to no information. C) I’ve met peeker. He is kinda like Dennis Hopper. If Dennis Hopper were an accountant. D) Because we are trying to lynch Scum. And, unless we are convinced that the Scum are going to be our non-contributors, we need to lynch contributors. (And wouldn’t the game be easy if the Scum always didn’t participate!) E) OK, sure. But I think we have enough good players here that we won’t do something stupid. OK, we will, I guess, but not if we are aware of it. And isn’t being aware the best defense against being stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/189 "2011-11-29T03:08:20Z")
I thought being smart was. On the other hand forewarned is forearmed. (And four-armed is twenty-fingered. Wouldn’t that make accountancy interesting.) ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/190 "2011-11-29T03:18:57Z")
I suspect we have 5 scum and no vig. Here’s the math of the four most likely scenarios. All assume the worst possible outcome for town. 4 scum, no vig: 4 scum, no vig D1 16 town, 4 scum N1 15 town, 4 scum D2 14 town, 4 scum N2 13 town, 4 scum D3 12 town, 4 scum N3 11 town, 4 scum D4 10 town, 4 scum N4 9 town, 4 scum D5 8 town, 4 scum N5 7 town, 4 scum D6 6 town, 4 scum N6 5 town, 4 scum D7 4 town, 4 scum - Day 7’s lynch wins for scum 4 scum, 1 vig: 4 scum, 1 vig D1 16 town, 4 scum N1 15 town, 4 scum D2 13 town, 4 scum N2 12 town, 4 scum D3 10 town, 4 scum N3 9 town, 4 scum D4 7 town, 4 scum N4 6 town, 4 scum - if the vig hits town tonight, scum win. 5 scum, no vig: 5 scum, no vig D1 15 town, 5 scum N1 14 town, 5 scum D2 13 town, 5 scum N2 12 town, 5 scum D3 11 town, 5 scum N3 10 town, 5 scum D4 9 town, 5 scum N4 8 town, 5 scum D5 7 town, 5 scum N5 6 town, 5 scum D6 5 town, 5 scum - Day 6’s lynch wins for scum 5 scum, 1 vig: 5 scum, 1 vig D1 15 town, 5 scum N1 14 town, 5 scum D2 12 town, 5 scum N2 11 town, 5 scum D3 9 town, 5 scum N3 8 town, 5 scum D4 6 town, 5 scum - Day 4’s mislynch wins for scum With 4 scum, town needs 4 successful lynches, yet scum needs to force 7 mislynches. That’s a serious uphill battle. 4 scum and a vig is more likely than 4 scum and no vig. Scum wins if Day 4 results in a mislynch and the vig hits town again that night. This might seem unbalanced - town needs 4 successful lynches, while scum only needs to force 4 mislynches - but this assumes that the vig misses every single night. There’s no guaranteeing it will. If their kill isn’t forced (that is, they don’t need to perform a kill each night), the odds could go even better for town. By not killing unless they’re fairly certain they’ll hit scum, town “earns” extra mislynches. 5 scum and no vig: town needs 5 correct lynches, scum needs to force 6 mislynches. Not terrible odds, given that scum can coordinate. I feel this is most likely, especially given that we’re in a newbie friendly game. 5 scum and 1 vig: the game could be over as early as D4, assuming the vig always hits town. Again, **not** killing can potentially be more beneficial. This scenario actually seems tilted in scum’s direction. 5 correct lynches are needed to win the game, yet scum can win with only 4 mislynches. Overall: I find the middle two options most likely, with “no vig” edging out “1 vig” in my opinion. Incidentally, I think I made a mistake in my math, since I seem to remember ties are decided at random, meaning scum wouldn’t necessarily win on night 4 in my second example. Oh well. Now to go address some posts! ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/191 "2011-11-29T03:22:48Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > I assume we also do not know when a doctor successfully protects someone? If nobody’s dead tomorrow, a doctor’s successful protection is a solid guess. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > II)IV)Talk to Storyteller, guiri, or BillMC about this. Several players suffer from the curse of the Night 1 NK. It can almost be worse if you survive for a few days because all of a sudden everyone’s making eyes at you. “Why aren’t you dead yet? If I were scum, I’da killed you Night 1. YOU MUST BE SCUM DIE DIE DIE” I get that way with Normal Phase. When she’s still alive, I get all suspicious. It’s a bad habit I need to cure. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/192 "2011-11-29T03:26:27Z")
Haha,\*\* peeker\*\* is an accountant, I forgot. Which always made his ramblings even more hilarious to me. I mean, can you imagine\*\* peeker\*\*being your accountant? Being ushered into a lush, quiet, high appointed office ( Or a teepee in a landfill…) “Well, I really think you should change your LLC to an S-corp for saving money on self employment taxes. BLUE TURKEY BALLS DELI ROLLERSKATES! AMISH INFIDELS BREAKDANCING! You might want to look at your gross margin ratio. WHERE"S MY BEES, DAMNIT, WHAT DID YOU SMELL WITH MY BEES?!” And just because YOU say he’s not Dennis Hopper, doesn’t make it so. Until I see the both of them at the same time, same place, it’s not conclusively proven. Off to bed, but thanks for reminding me of that wicked smart bastard. I laughed. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/193 "2011-11-29T03:27:33Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > So with **FluidDruid** confirmed, it looks like we’re ready to go, and that the day will end on Saturday 3 December at 12:33PM (EST). > > **Trepa, is that correct?** > > From what I’ve seen, randomly generated votes tend to get discussion going, so without further ado, to [the randomator!](http://www.random.org)! > > **Vote Silver Jan** > [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > Fair 'nuff > > **Vote Svejk** > > for voting randomly (so he claims) for Silverjan I’m gonna toss out an early vote for Precambrian. **Vote Precambrianmollusc.** The “so he claims” doesn’t sit right with me. Švejk is a new player, and that early vote doesn’t strike me as disingenuous in any way. Precambrian seems to be tossing in an extra tiny little jab that isn’t truly warranted. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/194 "2011-11-29T03:28:03Z")
Also, he is the only poster who does not capitalize that I do not think negatively of. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/195 "2011-11-29T03:31:23Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > And just because YOU say he’s not Dennis Hopper, doesn’t make it so. Until I see the both of them at the same time, same place, it’s not conclusively proven. Well, with Dennis Hopper being dead and all, it’ll be a while before you do see them in the same place at the same time… ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/196 "2011-11-29T03:45:02Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Did you just vote against me for random voting, and then ask if a lot of newbies got lynched because of random voted? It would appear to me that you represent the very mechanism that you are asking a question about - all within the space of five posts! I see your point…sort of. I am voting against you for your random vote, but I don’t think it happens all that often…therefore, we don’t lose a lot of noobs to it. Do we? > [@fisha](#): > > Haha,\*\* peeker\*\* is an accountant, I forgot. Which always made his ramblings even more hilarious to me. I mean, can you imagine\*\* peeker\*\*being your accountant? Being ushered into a lush, quiet, high appointed office ( Or a teepee in a landfill…) Just never get in a plane with him. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/197 "2011-11-29T03:51:24Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I see your point…sort of. I am voting against you for your random vote, but I don’t think it happens all that often…therefore, we don’t lose a lot of noobs to it. Do we? I hope you’re right; If I die, I’ll haunt the fuck out of you! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/198 "2011-11-29T03:59:26Z")
Criminies, it’s the first day of the first Day and I’m already feeling blearily lost. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > If nobody’s dead tomorrow, a doctor’s successful protection is a solid guess. Wait… what’s the difference between a doctor and a roleblocker? Is the difference that a doctor protects a specific person (presumably not knowing if they’re scum or town), and a roleblocker blocks a specific person (ditto)? Or does a roleblocker block a specific target from being killed? > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I get that way with Normal Phase. When she’s still alive, I get all suspicious. It’s a bad habit I need to cure. Oh man, I was sooooo hoping that **Normal Phase** would be playing in this game just so I could be _all up_ in that wench’s grill. Ditto **Stanislaus** , the dirty rat. Does anyone else find it hard not to bring in irrelevant issues from past Mafia games into their current game? Because there’s part of me that’s tempted to vote for **Silver Jan** just 'cause I know she was innocent in **De’endee** (and alas, I voted for her then) but she was scum (I think?) in the **Mystery** game. So I’ve been trying to think, “okay, what are the odds that someone woudl go from innocent to scum and back to innocent again?” But that doesn’t really work, obviously, because for one reason, the game moderator\* would have to be aware of each person’s status in past games, and I highly doubt they’d go to that trouble. Also it’s just dumb. I might just as well vote for **special ed** because in the last game he went “bah” at me every five minutes. So I guess what I’m saying is I haven’t a freakin’ clue whom to vote for during the first round. - What are the organizers called in a Mafia game? Mods? Admins? Sysops? Dungeon-masters? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/199 "2011-11-29T04:08:52Z")
Mods. With the exception of Pleo’s Conspiracy games, I can’t think of any games in our part of the mafia world where the mod used some method other than a randomizer to assign roles. My best guess for odds would be (number of innocent/number of players in Deendee)_(number of scum/number of players in Mystery)_(best guess as to innocent/20) Like I said, we don’t need to talk about why Grudges are Bad, but they are. So don’t have them. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/200 "2011-11-29T04:14:11Z")
quick question: I read somewhere about **JSexton** ’s rule that supposedly helps balance a game by assigning points to different roles and than balancing town v scum. What are those points? I guess it’s likely that the mod in this game would have sought to balance the two camps; would he have used this rule? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=11)