# Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase \[Newbie Friendly!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526 "2011-11-20T06:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/201 "2011-11-29T04:19:57Z")
Maybe. Jsexton points is an unfinished schemata for balancing a design. Certainly the points by themselves should not be the only metric used for balancing and there is still debate about how strong the various roles are. Here’s the page on them. [Link](http://mafiagameswiki.com/mafiaWiki/JSexton_Points) Using the points we can say that if we assume a cop, a doc, and some vanillas with an all goon scum team it’s weighted 21 : 22.5 advantage scum. But this is a very weak scum team that I’ve postulated and town is very generic as well. There’s little point in attempting to use JsP to assess the game state until much later in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/202 "2011-11-29T04:33:58Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > I hope you’re right; If I die, I’ll haunt the fuck out of you! 🆒 Heh, go ahead. Mind you, I may very well move my vote before Day-end. Perhaps more than once…even back to you maybe. No idea. > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > quick question: I read somewhere about **JSexton** ’s rule that supposedly helps balance a game by assigning points to different roles and than balancing town v scum. What are those points? I guess it’s likely that the mod in this game would have sought to balance the two camps; would he have used this rule? I use them, but only as a guide. You kind of have to balance the game as much as possible, but randomness and insanity can occur no matter what. I’m guessing, since this is a newbie game, that we have a very basic setup. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/203 "2011-11-29T04:40:43Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Heh, go ahead. Mind you, I may very well move my vote before Day-end. Perhaps more than once…even back to you maybe. No idea. It’s a fair point. I’ll be more than happy to unvote **SilverJan** when someone more suspicious comes along, which will probably happen. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/204 "2011-11-29T04:53:08Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > It’s a fair point. I’ll be more than happy to unvote **SilverJan** when someone more suspicious comes along, which will probably happen. Is this your first game? Forgive me if you said so earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/205 "2011-11-29T05:06:14Z")
Vote Count: Svejk (2): Precambrianmollusc, Mahaloth Precambrianmollusc (1): Astral Rejection Silver Jan (1): Svejk Choie (1): GuiriEnEspana ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/206 "2011-11-29T08:09:44Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > It’s a fair point. I’ll be more than happy to unvote **SilverJan** when someone more suspicious comes along, which will probably happen. First of all I would like to say that I am in a different time zone from most of you, I don’t think that there are any fellow South Africans playing this particular game. I tend not to be able to have RL chit chats. **Svejk** says that the vote was totally random, why then does he say that he will unvote me when someone more suspicious comes along, that in itself seems to say that he suspects me. I find it very curious that a random vote has turned to a suspicious one, is it just semantics or does he know more than I do? Now that I have that off my chest, I will go back to read more thoroughly. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/207 "2011-11-29T08:15:45Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Is this your first game? Forgive me if you said so earlier. Yep, it’s his first. Tsk tsk! FOS at Mahaloth for not reading carefully so early in the game! (Nah, just kidding. BTW am I crazy for being disappointed that you’re no longer using your Denial/Anger/Depression/Bargaining/Acceptance style in your posts?) I’m fairly itching to do an OMGUS on **GuiriEnEspana** but I shall refrain. **vote fluiddruid** Honestly I have no idea why. I guess my reasoning is, any vote is just about as good as any other, and why not pick on an SDMB mod for once? OH. I just thought about something. Since we started during a Day, rather than a Night, does this mean that the scum gang don’t know yet who’s one of them, and who’s one of us? I don’t remember how that works. IIRC my first game began at Night, so the scum were already one step ahead of us. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/208 "2011-11-29T10:14:43Z")
On lurking, I agree with **Inner** ’s distinction between lurking and not participating. Non participation is anti-game and if someone is unable to play, please ask to be subbed out - there are usually other players who would like to step in. At least the lurker leaves something to analyze and build a case upon. > [@special\_ed](#): > > New scum are often over eager. Or not. Or maybe somewhat @ **Special Ed** , it’s not clear whether you think **Fisha** is an over eager new scum who edited due to hasty posting or if you were trying to bait over eager new scum into jumping on her (or you, previously) for the edit. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > …don’t know about false since I don’t know who/what anyone is. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Heh, go ahead. Mind you, I may very well move my vote before Day-end. Perhaps more than once…even back to you maybe. No idea. @ **Mahaloth** , maybe it really is your play style but these are exactly the kind of comments that set off my scumdar with you. @ **Astral** , how would a SK affect your calculations? Why do you think 4 scum + 1 vig is unbalanced if the best case scenario for either team takes 4 cycles? @ **choie** , both the Doc and the roleblocker target a specific person. If the person targeted by the Doc is attacked during the Night, s/he will (usually) survive the attack. If the person targeted by the roleblocker attempts to take an action, s/he will be prevented from doing so. In the case of no deaths, either the Doc accurately predicted who the kill target was, or the roleblocker accurately predicted who the killer was, or a number of other scenarios such as mass blocks of all kills/actions, no kill submitted before the deadline, redirects of either the protection or the roleblock to another player, etc. @ **Inner** , I don’t believe previous alignment has any impact on alignment in this game. The odds of any single person being scum is the same for all of us: number of scum/number of players. Why do you think previous games would have any impact on this game? Isn’t that the gambler’s fallacy? @ **Choie** again, scum usually start the game knowing who their colleagues are. If scum cannot talk during the Day, they generally have the information in their role PM or posted on the secret scum board. Some games have a twist where there’s a hidden scum but I’ve yet to see a game where scum had no idea who else was on their team. **Can we talk strategy at Night? Can scum talk during the Day?** ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/209 "2011-11-29T12:13:29Z")
I always forget if you add or multiply independent events together. At any rate, I was wrong anyway because we already know what Jan’s alignments in the other games were so their probabilities are 1. This is all irrelevant, I was just trying to approximate the odds for choie. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/210 "2011-11-29T12:46:24Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > @ **Special Ed** , it’s not clear whether you think **Fisha** is an over eager new scum who edited due to hasty posting or if you were trying to bait over eager new scum into jumping on her (or you, previously) for the edit.\*\*\*\* I believe that you are assuming that I have a purpose in what I say. my “edit” was obviously a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/211 "2011-11-29T13:12:26Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > @ **Mahaloth** , maybe it really is your play style but these are exactly the kind of comments that set off my scumdar with you. OK. I guess it is my play style. Or not. Now I’m just screwing with you with my non-committal statements. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/212 "2011-11-29T14:31:25Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > If scum cannot talk during the Day, they generally have the information in their role PM or posted on the secret scum board. Some games have a twist where there’s a hidden scum but I’ve yet to see a game where scum had no idea who else was on their team. But wouldn’t it be a dead giveaway if scum couldn’t talk during the day? Or does it mean scum can’t discuss among themselves who to kill during the day? ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/213 "2011-11-29T14:56:44Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > First of all I would like to say that I am in a different time zone from most of you, I don’t think that there are any fellow South Africans playing this particular game. I tend not to be able to have RL chit chats. > > **Svejk** says that the vote was totally random, why then does he say that he will unvote me when someone more suspicious comes along, that in itself seems to say that he suspects me. I find it very curious that a random vote has turned to a suspicious one, is it just semantics or does he know more than I do? Well there’s always the baselevel suspicion that a vanilla townie is going to have of anyone - there’s a 4/19 or 5/19 chance for any player in this game other than me to be scum. That includes you. Do I suspect you beyond that? No. Do I know more than you. No - if anything I know less than you. I hear you on the different time zone though. When I lived in Europe, which was during the first year and a half or so of being a member of this board, I’d be like ‘boy, nothing ever goes on here does it?’ - because I’d leave work just around this time, when all the people in North America start coming around. We’re on the same board, but when’s the last time we _really_ talked? 😃 > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Is this your first game? Forgive me if you said so earlier. I’ve only alluded to my newbie status four or five times so far, so it’s OK. I guess newbie does not necessarily mean first game though, but yeah, like I’ve said upthread, it’s my very first time. > [@wevets](#): > > But wouldn’t it be a dead giveaway if scum couldn’t talk during the day? Or does it mean scum can’t discuss among themselves who to kill during the day? I guess scum have some other place to discuss, possibly on another board. When people say they ‘talk during the night’, it means they go there and talk business. During the Day, they can talk in our thread, but won’t reveal their status. For the moment, since we started in the day, it means IIRC that the scum players don’t know the scum players yet. Can someone confirm that? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/214 "2011-11-29T15:03:16Z")
I’m also in a different time zone (Thailand) … but with unpredictable on-line times due to an erratic sleep schedule. :smack: (The one constant is I won’t be posting 5AM to 9AM EST: we’ve a single computer and the kids have dibs on it in our evenings.) My Internet connection is sometimes flaky, so I’ll try to vote early. **Švejk** ’s random vote may be odd, but the votes against him seem opportunistic. Someone agrees with me: > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > I’m gonna toss out an early vote for Precambrian. > > **Vote Precambrianmollusc.** > > The “so he claims” doesn’t sit right with me. Švejk is a new player, and that early vote doesn’t strike me as disingenuous in any way. Precambrian seems to be tossing in an extra tiny little jab that isn’t truly warranted. I’m not sure how much weight that unnecessary “tiny little jab” really warrants, but it seems enough for an early Day 1 vote. **Vote: Precambrianmollusc** ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/215 "2011-11-29T15:08:56Z")
So by my count, after **FluidDruid** checked in yesterday at 12:33 PM and gameplay really started, 14 players have contributed by making at least one post (I haven’t really scored posts for substance, though); that leaves six players still lurking or MIA or whatever: **FluidDruid Fubbleskag Hirka T’Bawa MentalGuy Scathach Septimus** This is a group to keep an eye on, perhaps? It seems fair to say that scum have less of an incentive to post than non-scum; if that is true, and there’s, say, 4 or even 5 scum, and 2 of them are still cowering in the shadows, that gives a .33 scum ratio for the above group, as opposed to a much lower ratio in the group of posters (.14 - .21). ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/216 "2011-11-29T15:10:37Z")
Sorry Septimus - missed your post there. Glad you could join us! ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/217 "2011-11-29T15:14:24Z")
Oh, and if it has not been said: You can find out who posted and find their individual posts by clicking the number of posts under the replies option on the main board. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/218 "2011-11-29T15:50:05Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > @ **Astral** , how would a SK affect your calculations? Why do you think 4 scum + 1 vig is unbalanced if the best case scenario for either team takes 4 cycles? To figure out a serial killer, just subtract one from each town tally, as presumably the killer is not town aligned. Also, you’ll note I didn’t say it was unbalanced, per se… I just felt it was unlikely. If the vig is not forced to kill, for instance, we could be back at 4 correct lynches versus 7 mislynches, which is horribly skewed pro-town. Add in that Trepa’s given win condition for scum makes no mention of eliminating all threats, and that this is a newbie friendly game, and I feel “no vig” is more likely. Tomorrow, we’ll see if I’m wrong! ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/219 "2011-11-29T16:57:12Z")
Finding **Svejk** ’s reasoning a little persuasive, I figured I might as well throw a vote out there. Vote fluiddruid There seems to be little to go on until Friday in any case. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/220 "2011-11-29T17:21:36Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > To figure out a serial killer, just subtract one from each town tally, as presumably the killer is not town aligned. > > Also, you’ll note I didn’t say it was unbalanced, per se… I just felt it was unlikely. If the vig is not forced to kill, for instance, we could be back at 4 correct lynches versus 7 mislynches, which is horribly skewed pro-town. Add in that Trepa’s given win condition for scum makes no mention of eliminating all threats, and that this is a newbie friendly game, and I feel “no vig” is more likely. > > Tomorrow, we’ll see if I’m wrong! I am so pleased there are other people that have odd times too. @ **Astral** I had to read your post a few times before I realised what you were on about with “Tomorrow, we’ll see if I’m wrong” I take it you mean that if there are 2 Night Kills then we will know if there is a Vig, I presume? I think that even if there is only one NK we can’t rule out a Vig, in most of the games I have played the Vig doesn’t have to kill every night. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=12)