# Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase \[Newbie Friendly!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526 "2011-11-20T06:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/401 "2011-12-03T05:08:56Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Generally the mod has decided on a role resolution order, say, roleblocks trump kills trump everything else. Then all they have to do is collect all the actions from all the players and plug them in the right slots and voila. So there’s no set tradition, then? That’s kind of surprising actually. I suppose no one’s gonna answer about why Night has to last longer than one real day? I found that incredibly frustrating in **De’endee** , but perhaps it was more so because we Townies weren’t allowed to do anything useful so there was this long, silent dread-filled longeur while we waited to find out on whom the axe fell. > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Now the real question is how subtle do you think we think you are. Oh, I’m pretty sure you think I’m not very subtle. I also think you think I don’t know that you think I’m not very subtle. I know it’s pathetic, but my default position is generally to expect that people don’t think well of me – or, more likely, that they don’t think of me at all – so I’m always surprised when these expectations turn out wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/402 "2011-12-03T05:20:39Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I suppose no one’s gonna answer about why Night has to last longer than one real day? I found that incredibly frustrating in **De’endee** , but perhaps it was more so because we Townies weren’t allowed to do anything useful so there was this long, silent dread-filled longeur while we waited to find out on whom the axe fell. Night lasts longer than 1 day because traditionally night has lasted longer than 1 day. It’s a weak answer, but you know how folks get about traditions. Ultimately, I think it’s to ensure the scum team has enough time to coordinate their decisions about power usage and night kill(s), so that if real-life stuff interferes, scum can still plan. Also, since this is the second time you’ve mentioned it, I’d like to point out that De’endee allowed town discussion at any time, Day or Night. Says so [right here in post #1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13992601&postcount=1) of the game, rule number 5. Just cuz you guys chose not to do much talking doesn’t mean it wasn’t allowed. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/403 "2011-12-03T05:24:58Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I know it’s pathetic, but my default position is generally to expect that people don’t think well of me – or, more likely, that they don’t think of me at all – so I’m always surprised when these expectations turn out wrong. Also, (and I know you weren’t fishing for compliments) I thought you did great in De’endee Mafia. I genuinely mean that. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/404 "2011-12-03T07:08:16Z")
Again, remember that when we started playing, Scum rarely could daytalk so nights were longer than one night to give them an opportunity to chat and scheme. Also, especially on a board like this, it would be a little sucky if night only lasted 12 hours and I was on a scum team with someone in Africa or Australia. One of us would have to really change their sleep habits every so often. Added to that is that we play a more laconic version of mafia than oh, say, the poggers and we need the extra days to wring as much advantage out as we can. I’m not going to be coy. Choie, asking about how night powers work in this game means one of two things. Either you’re not a power role and are outing yourself as vanilla in a roundabout way or you’re ingenuously asking a question so that suspicious dicks like me will think you’re outing yourself as vanilla in a roundabout way. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/405 "2011-12-03T14:15:03Z")
it’s early and I haven’t had my coffee yet, so apologies if I make any less sense, or any more typos than usual > [@choie](#): > > [spoiler]unvote fluiddruid > > vote Inner Stickler for mischaracterizing my posts, for waiting until the very last night before Night falls to vote for anyone, for sucking me into this annoying freakin’ game in the first place despite the fact that I nearly got an ulcer last time I played and vowed not to play it again, for being the third vote on **fisha** which is a scum tell but he should know that it’s a scum tell and so therefore he thinks it’s safe to vote third because we’d think no true scum would dare vote third, and, finally, for trying to protect **Silver Jan** for some unknown reason. What does he know? What is he hiding? Is **Jan** the godfather? Why was she in Dealey Plaza on that day, anyway? > > There, now I’m officially a Mafia player: voting someone for spurious reasons akin to John Nash seeing patterns in his newspaper clippings. Yay![/spoiler] I can’t decide if this case is overly emotional/defensive or just tongue-in-cheek; either way, it’s a little weak - the only salient point in it is the claim of mischaracterization, which I’m not (yet) convinced is true. > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > [spoiler]This is some weak-ass shit right here. > > 1. If you want to know why read my posts? What, all 49 of them? What makes you so special that think you get away with pointing such a weakly phrased suspicion without any sort of justification (or even a summary of one), or a link to a previous comment? When this is what you have been calling people out for? Telling other people to do the legwork seems like a lazy and scummy thing to do, and your comment in [post 355](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14521069&postcount=355) does very little to change my opinion. You’re casting suspicions far too lightly and in doing so you are unfair to the ones you accuse but far more importantly, you are holding out on us. > > 2. Which brings me to my next point - I actually brought this up not too long ago [in post #329](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14518621&postcount=329) and you never bothered to reply. I can’t find the post right now, but I distinctly recall someone claiming that ignoring single accusations and waiting for more to accumulate is a scum tell. > > 3. Your vote for **choie** is based on even less of a justification than your suspicion of **fisha**. You weren’t completely pleased with his post [#333](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14518895&postcount=333) but what does that even mean? what did you expect to get from this post that it did not provide to you exactly? I can speculate but really you should be telling us instead of having us speculate. Frankly, I can understand where **choie** ’s coming from, and I think she’s right in pointing out that voting is pretty random on the first day and becomes more informed as the day goes on (how could that not be true); I think it still makes sense to go through this phase of the game to tease out information that may be usefull to town later, but I understand the sentiment. > > 4. Including some reference to another player’s actions in some unspecified older game is completely useless to me You pointed out to me how it’s not good to offer information that some players may not have access too - you’re essentially doing the same. > [/INDENT] > I am not 100% convinced that you are scum but I think that it is a distinct possibility. More seriously though, I haven’t really found your posting in this thread to be a contribution to towns effort. Whether that is because you might be scum, or perhaps because your style just rubs me the wrong way, I don’t know, but either way I am going to: > > Vote special ed[/spoiler] this is a decent case; I may have to upgrade **ed** from neutral to lean scum > [@Mahaloth](#): > > 😕 Nice random smudge, there. it’s hardly random; I commented earlier on your ‘bitchy’ tone, and if I recall, it’s been mentioned in previous games. > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > [spoiler]Boy, 13 mins to go and a three-way tie. I don’t particularly like the cases made against **Fisha** , **PCM** , and **Wevets** , and I am quite content with my vote for \*\*Ed \*\*so I’m not going to change my vote. It would make sense at this point to figure out who amongst these three voteleaders is the scummiest, even if I think that others are more deserving of a vote, but frankly I don’t have time for that (I wish I did) and it would not contribute to vote just to break the tie, without having done the research. I hope somebody else will take it upon themselves to be tie-breakers. I apologize that it can’t be me, I wish I’d had the time. > > I must say, though, that none of the third votes, all of which happened just recently and which created this standoff within 7 posts of each other, are particularly convincing or well argued, from what I can tell. I am starting to wonder if \*\*Fubbleskag \*\* (post [#359](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14521346&postcount=359)) and **Astral Rejection** (post #[364](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14521707&postcount=364)) might have something to gain from creating a standoff in which no one dares to act, and which in the end may be detrimental to the information gathering process that the voting-and-lynching procedure is for. Why create this dilemma?[/spoiler] I’m not convinced that a tie here was actually a dilemma, but I’m certainly open to being convinced otherwise - can you describe a scenario where **Astral** and I might have something to gain from a 3-way tie? if I am later convinced, or if I’m in the minority on this opinion, it might be worth noting that at least one active player was online in the final minutes and chose not to make a swing vote: > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Meh, that was a bit of an anti climax. I had three windows open, ready to vote whoever switched their vote to save themselves at the last minute… None of them even appear to be online. > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > From earlier: thank you; I knew I’d read it somewhere but couldn’t find it for some reason (this motivated me to add a new bookmarklet to my collection of mafia-related post filters). also, I actually predicted to myself that if this had been previously asked, it would be you that pointed it out. > [@fluiddruid](#): > > [spoiler] > > > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > > > > [@Precambrianmollusc](#): > > > > > > Well then > > > a) raise a beer to our departed Fisha > > > b) interesting that scum were happy to have the lynch candidate settled by a random choice by the mod > > > > > > My conclusion is either scum knew all 3 of the candidates were town > > > or b scum were largely absent from the voting > > > > > > To be honest I don’t know if I would have switched my vote from Wevets to Fisha to save myself, although based on the somewhat flimsy reasoning that scum didn’t try and sway the vote away from a tie gives wevets a town lean from me. > > > > Or C) one of them is scum and the scum team was okay with a 1 in 3 chance and didn’t want to call attention to themselves by breaking the tie by voting for a townie. > > A tie like this is really a scum advantage in any case. [/spoiler] it could just be my ignorance, but can you explain why a tie here is a scum advantage? it seems to me that the unbroken tie allows us to speculate on why it was unbroken and how that shines on the surviving two players, while a straight-up lynch of **fisha** provides us almost nothing. is there a big picture percentage disadvantage that I’m not seeing? > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > [spoiler] > > > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > > > So essentially risking your own death in order to potentially save **fisha** at the expense of **wevets** (or yourself). Very noble 😃 > > > [@Scathach](#): > > > > In fairness, she has a point. I don’t disagree that RL can get in the way, but as a townie lynched out of a three way tie I can see how it’s irritating to have 5 people not vote. And as it happens, I would probably have voted PCM, which would have saved her. (Although the fact that he could have voted to save himself and didn’t makes me lean town on him now:smack:) > > > > Actually, the fact that the tie was left happen makes me think that all three candidates are more likely to be town. Well, all two now I guess. > > I’m inclined to also believe this.[/spoiler] just to be clear, **PCM** didn’t vote to save himself because he wasn’t online in time to do so, not because it was the noble thing to do. having said that, he did volunteer that fact himself, which has a town-lean to it as well, but perhaps less so. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/406 "2011-12-03T15:52:30Z")
That is correct Well day in a couple of hours, personally I am not a huge fan of scum being able to talk during the day - it gives them quite an advantage, and I don’t see much of an offsetting advantage to town talking strategy at night , if anything it is more of an opportunity to give away power roles. That said it does keep the chat in the game going. Fluff at night is always good as it may help deflate some of the in game tension that can arise after several days of false accusations and slander. Fubbleskag I would say it is a scum advantage as they don;t actively have to do anything to save a scum thus potentially exposing another scum, and they don’t risk loosing a scum in the tie break. It may give the remaining two a slight town shine, but really that will be forgotten quickly as no one is confirmed until they are dead. So a tie between townies is better than a tie with scum in the mix, for scum. So really a "least bad outcome for scum " rather than a “scum advantage” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/407 "2011-12-03T16:01:43Z")
I’d also like to understand why the tie was good for scum. If, as many think, the ending is a strong Town tell for PCM and wevets, it would seem pro-Town, giving us two likely Townies. I’d like to hear experienced players comment on the following hypothetical scenario. Suppose A and B are tied and A moves his vote to Lynch B at the last minute; then C comes in the final seconds to vote A; B loses the tie-breaker, is Lynched, flips Town. Now, A will come under Lynch pressure. Suppose he is Lynched and flips Scum. Will this give C excellent Town cred? Or will Townies worry it was all a Scum show? Applying this to our game, if PCM or wevets is Scum, mightn’t we have expected some other Scum to show up and vote him in the ending (perhaps after that Scum breaks the tie), hoping to get Town cred? Since nothing like that happened, is it a good inference to assume PCM and wevets are both Town? (Another reason for Scum to have tried this ploy, is that we’d end up wasting Day 2 reacting to the ploy rather than doing other scum-hunting.) ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/408 "2011-12-03T17:23:28Z")
throwing a fellow scum under the bus to get town credit has been used, it worked, then it didn’t now it is a strategy that falls into the “scum wouldn’t do that , so maybe they would” category. basically it is not possible to know which way it goes. I am not sure you can apply your hypothetical to our situation, as it was a 3 way tie as opposed to a two way tie, and none of the tied voters switched and no one stepped in, so applying a dissimilar theoretical to fathom out what happened in the actual may not be helpful. I would still say that a 3 way tie of three townies is better for scum than any other option, as they do not have to make any risky moves, and the two remaining are still in no way confirmed as town and it can keep the fuzzy suspicion on the two remaining. I know I am town, I have a slight town lean on Wevets but that doesn’t clear him in my eyes as I have no idea what his alignment is. Anyway, morning should be with us soon, so we may know more. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/409 "2011-12-03T17:32:20Z")
ARRGGGG 10:20 Sunday not saturday Been off work for a few days and now I have no idea what day it is ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/410 "2011-12-03T17:33:28Z")
I guess I can stop refreshing to find out what happened. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/411 "2011-12-03T17:59:20Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Night lasts longer than 1 day because traditionally night has lasted longer than 1 day. It’s a weak answer, but you know how folks get about traditions. Ultimately, I think it’s to ensure the scum team has enough time to coordinate their decisions about power usage and night kill(s), so that if real-life stuff interferes, scum can still plan. No, I grok tradition, that makes sense. So then I’m guessing that it arose because traditionally they _haven’t_ been allowed to talk during the Day? This way having extra time during the Night would be kind of a release for the poor little scummy bastards. (Oh. Later on **Inner** confirms this, so cool. I get it.) > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Also, since this is the second time you’ve mentioned it, I’d like to point out that De’endee allowed town discussion at any time, Day or Night. Says so [right here in post #1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13992601&postcount=1) of the game, rule number 5. Just cuz you guys chose not to do much talking doesn’t mean it wasn’t allowed. 😃 Oh holy crap, you’re right. Why the heck did I not remember that? I’m sorry, I definitely didn’t mean to impugn the planning of that game, I just really could’ve sworn we’d all started talking about recipes once Nightfall hit. Must be confusing it with one of the other games i’d read about over the summer just prior to playing. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Also, (and I know you weren’t fishing for compliments) I thought you did great in De’endee Mafia. I genuinely mean that. Wow. Thanks, **Astral Rejection**. No, I definitely wasn’t fishing, but I appreciate that greatly. Maybe toward the middle/end of the game, but even my improved participation became a distraction 'cause **pizzaguy** and **Normal** were certain that only scum would improve during the course of a game. So first-time Townies, keep that in mind: even if you start playing better as time goes on, _that_’ll come across as a scum! > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Added to that is that we play a more laconic version of mafia than oh, say, the poggers and we need the extra days to wring as much advantage out as we can. Poggers? People who collect pogs? I suppose I should assume that “_we_ need the extra day” as a slip of the tongue, right? Or you meant the royal “we”? 😉 > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I’m not going to be coy. Choie, asking about how night powers work in this game means one of two things. Either you’re not a power role and are outing yourself as vanilla in a roundabout way or you’re ingenuously asking a question so that suspicious dicks like me will think you’re outing yourself as vanilla in a roundabout way. …Or irrespective of my vanilla/powery goodness state, I just wanted to know? There’s a lot I still don’t quite fathom about this game. (BTW I think you mean “disingenuously” here. “Ingenuous” is what I actually am; “disingenuous” means not open, or behaving with intent to deceive.) > [@fubbleskag](#): > > it’s early and I haven’t had my coffee yet, so apologies if I make any less sense, or any more typos than usual > > I can’t decide if this case is overly emotional/defensive or just tongue-in-cheek; either way, it’s a little weak - the only salient point in it is the claim of mischaracterization, which I’m not (yet) convinced is true. All you gots to do is look at my posts and count the number of times I kvetched about the first day sucking. I don’t think “twice” out of a dozen (at the time) counts as “constantly,” so that’s why I mentioned mischaracterization. But the rest of it was pretty much just tongue-in-cheek. Except for my not liking the rationale for **Inner** ’s **fisha** vote, which in retrospect seems was a good instinct on my part but was probably coincidental. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > it’s hardly random; I commented earlier on your ‘bitchy’ tone, and if I recall, it’s been mentioned in previous games. Yeah, I was gonna say, I was a bit surprised that **Mahaloth** thought that was random, or smudging. Not only was it accurate, but it was again mostly just an inside joke (we were both in the recent Party Quirks game and I guessed his quirk, which was a very clever one–someone constantly going through the five stages of grief a la Kübler-Ross–that he played hilariously well). > [@fubbleskag](#): > > it could just be my ignorance, but can you explain why a tie here is a scum advantage? it seems to me that the unbroken tie allows us to speculate on why it was unbroken and how that shines on the surviving two players, while a straight-up lynch of **fisha** provides us almost nothing. is there a big picture percentage disadvantage that I’m not seeing? Yeah, I have to agree that the vote itself didn’t seem purposely manipulated by scum to create a tie situation. The only way I can figure that working would be if a) whoever hit the top-vote total first was scum, and then b) s/he and the rest of his/her scum compatriots rushed to manipulate the votes so that the scum-in-danger had competition, and c) in order to avoid obvious detection as scum they distributed their four or five votes (assuming that’s how many scum members are in the game) among **fisha** and the other presumably town candidates, and d) since they ran out of votes they were stuck hoping that at least now they’d created a situation that would _likely_ result in either one of us voting for the other candidates and thus tipping the scales, or at least a 67% probability that the scum candidate wouldn’t be chosen in case of a tie. Whew. I don’t even know if that makes sense, but at least it’s one way the scum could’ve benefited from a tie. But it seems that usually scum are more than willing to let one of their own die, at least early in the game. So unless most of the scum are total newbies who are perforce less reckless/bold than more experienced scum would be… I don’t see the tie in and of itself being purposeful. As it is, either way, we’re inclined to look closely at the votes for **fisha** and the other candidates. So they didn’t gain much except an early townie death, which let’s face it, isn’t a big deal (no offense **fisha** ) aside from a general sense that “every Townie’s death diminishes me, for no Townie is an island.” ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/412 "2011-12-03T20:16:32Z")
I think the suggestion that a 3 way tie is advantageous for scum is not so much that it is advantageous for scum to create a tie, but if a tie exist through the town not knowing who is who, it is good for scum as they don’t have to risk anything and a town lynch is assured. Town don’t really gain anything as the only people who know it was a three way town tie are the scum, so town is pretty much still in the dark. So really we should get to carried away with it, because only Wevets and scum know what alignment wevets is , and only the scum and me truly know that I am town. (unless of course wevets is a 3rd party non town aligned , in which case only wevets knows that. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/413 "2011-12-03T21:24:31Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Poggers? People who collect pogs? > > I suppose I should assume that “_we_ need the extra day” as a slip of the tongue, right? Or you meant the royal “we”? 😉 > > …Or irrespective of my vanilla/powery goodness state, I just wanted to know? There’s a lot I still don’t quite fathom about this game. (BTW I think you mean “disingenuously” here. “Ingenuous” is what I actually am; “disingenuous” means not open, or behaving with intent to deceive.) Poggers, the people on the other forum where they have 100 page game threads and 3 day cycles. Remember from Mystery mafia? I mean we. Town and scum on this board need longer days and nights. A shorter day can be just as detrimental to town as a shorter night is to scum. I meant ingenuous as in your disingenuous rings sincere and everyone thinks it’s genuine. I am not a writer. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/414 "2011-12-03T21:45:06Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > it’s hardly random; I commented earlier on your ‘bitchy’ tone, and if I recall, it’s been mentioned in previous games. Wait. People don’t like me? First I’ve heard of it. I did get choie’s joke, but yours seemed like a real dig. So, cite that people have referred to my “bitchy” tone in any other game? I have to say, that really hurts to hear that anyone thinks that. Seriously. Outside the game and all, that hurts to hear. I have no idea why anyone would think that. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/415 "2011-12-03T21:47:59Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Yeah, I was gonna say, I was a bit surprised that **Mahaloth** thought that was random, or smudging. Not only was it accurate, but it was again mostly just an inside joke (we were both in the recent Party Quirks game and I guessed his quirk, which was a very clever one–someone constantly going through the five stages of grief a la Kübler-Ross–that he played hilariously well). Just to say again, I did get your joke/reference to the game. It’s fubble who seems off-base to me. I’m really hurt by all this. I had no idea anyone thought I had a bitchy tone in previous games. I thought people liked having me in games. I’m blown away. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/416 "2011-12-03T22:16:30Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Just to say again, I did get your joke/reference to the game. It’s fubble who seems off-base to me. > > I’m really hurt by all this. I had no idea anyone thought I had a bitchy tone in previous games. I thought people liked having me in games. > > I’m blown away. Oh God, now I feel terrible. Please don’t be hurt! I don’t think it’s a matter of people not liking you at all or not liking have you as part of the game. Heck, at least for me, you totally _made_ the PQ game. (And you were also a good co-mod for De’endee.) Don’t worry about it, it’s probably just a tone thing that seems to have been misconstrued. Tonewise, you’re sometimes a bit curt, or laconic as **Inner** would say, heh, so maybe that’s what **fubbles** is reacting to (and what I reacted to). Sometimes shortness can be misread as harshness, which translates to anger. **Inner** , so you’re saying that my ingenuousness is making people think I’m being ingenuous, whereas I’m actually disingenuous? Man, wheels within wheels! I kinda love that I’m considered capable of that. (I actually didn’t follow the **Mystery Mafia** game very closely at all – it went way too fast for me, and from what little I read of it, gameplay was more opaque than I could follow. So “poggers” are people from the IdleMafia board, or is this another Mafia-based board?) Anyway, enough meta stuff. Right now I’d say the only people on whom I have _any_ kind of reading are **Inner** (sorry), **special ed** and **Precambrianmollusc** , and the sad thing is that I can’t really quantify those feelings. **fisha** ’s being revealed as Town is what sort of turns my almost-not-serious suspcion of **Inner** to a slightly more substantive one. (Thus proving even a stopped clock is right twice a day.) It doesn’t even rise to FOS territory, though. **special ed** only gets a ping because of his posting style, which I think I had the same issue with back in the last game, and I don’t even remember if he was town or scum in that game. So yeah, not a very well-justified reasoning here. **PCM** ’s not remembering when Night ends, and his not being online to change his vote, _and_ his pointing out that he wasn’t online so that people don’t think he was being noble… all that _should_ read as Town to me. And yet I guess I’m having the same trouble with him that **Inner** is having with me (assuming **Inner** is Town, that is): it’s almost _too_ Townie. If he were a newbie I’d be more inclined to believe that yes, he’s actually this Townie. But since he’s experienced – at least, I get that sense from his posts – he could definitely be saying all this just to _seem_ hugely Townie. This game really messes with my reasoning abilities. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/417 "2011-12-03T22:26:31Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Wait. People don’t like me? First I’ve heard of it. > > I did get choie’s joke, but yours seemed like a real dig. > > So, cite that people have referred to my “bitchy” tone in any other game? > > I have to say, that really hurts to hear that anyone thinks that. Seriously. Outside the game and all, that hurts to hear. I have no idea why anyone would think that. > > ☹ I like you. Idiot 😉 ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/418 "2011-12-03T22:27:34Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > this is a decent case; I may have to upgrade **ed** from neutral to lean scum Please, explain what is decent about it. Feel free to read my response to it first. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/419 "2011-12-03T22:30:32Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > I’m inclined to also believe this. I’d like to hear (as I’ve indicated above in post 373) from the people who created the standoff: **Fubbleskag** (post #359) and **Astral Rejection** (post #364). I also wonder how come not a single poster saw fit to break the tie. I understand that many of us might have been in the same boat that I was in myself: I just did not know and did not want to risk casting the final condemning vote when I was not entirely sure. Still, others might have had more of a read on **wevets** , **fisha** , and **Precambrian**. **Special Ed** , for instance, pointed an FOS at \*\*fisha \*\*in post #301, why did he not step in? Looking back, we know that \*\*fisha \*\*got lynched anyway and that \*\*Ed \*\*was wrong to suspect her, but there was a time when we did not know that. I wasn’t around. I cast my vote with many hours to go, adn wasn’t able to check into the game as work kept me occupied ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/420 "2011-12-03T22:32:48Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Please, explain what is decent about it. > > Feel free to read my response to it first. That’s rich - you never responded to it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=22)