# Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase \[Newbie Friendly!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526 "2011-11-20T06:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/441 "2011-12-05T01:31:38Z")
Damn. All that blood’s going to be a bitch to get out of the sheets. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/442 "2011-12-05T07:23:11Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > … Well, in my case I didn’t feel strongly enough about their scumminess to decide which to sentence and didn’t have a Town lean from any of them to decide which to save, random was OK for me. Your vote was on **choie** , only one vote away from the leaders, so she might have become Lynchee in the end-game. Less forgivable, IMHO, were those not voting at all, or, perhaps, voting for a one-off. To me it seems anti-Town to abstain with this tie. Instead, players should have made their best guess at Scum, broken the tie, and hoped for a revealing sequence of further votes. I think **Gregorio** must have been Vig-killed. Why would Scum NK a Lurker? I don’t blame Vig for killing him, but blame **Gregorio** for lurking, especially given posts suggesting Vig should kill lurkers. I’m less suspicious of **PCM** now; his latest posts seem to have a strong ring of sincerity. I want to focus instead on the anti-Town non-voters (and perhaps one-off voters). Scum would have been delighted to hide in this group, especially if, as it appears, all 3 Lynch candidates were Townies. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/443 "2011-12-05T13:12:56Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Ouch. I agree that Gregorio, with just two posts to his name, is likely to have been vigged… :snipped: I think so, too. Wouldn’t this indicate a town-alligned vigilante, then? I don’t think a scum team would have much motivation to get rid of lurkers. Nor would a SK, right? ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/444 "2011-12-05T16:28:25Z")
I have just manged to get on the net for a bit. I am sorry we lost the Cop but I didn’t even realise that Gregorio was playing! I agree that it looks like a Vig kill, why would scum waste a NK on a lurker. I wonder how **wevets** was killed? I have never played with a bodyguard in the game before so I am not sure of all the ins and outs of that particular role. Am I correct in thinking that he could have been Night Killed or killed while protecting someone else? I will try and get make soon but it’s quite difficult on a little island in the middle of the Indian Ocean, I will be home before EOD so I will definitely get a vote in. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/445 "2011-12-05T17:04:02Z")
well most of the commentary on the nights results has been made, but just as a “me to” 1. Crap we lost the cop 2. As per Guri, Gregorio is likely a town vig, or a serial killer looking for a possible town vig claim later. 3. Can’t see any reason for scum to kill a lurker, unless they had additional information, but as we started in day, and I am assuming scum have no day powers, so they didn’t have any extra info. 4. my geuss would be wevets was killed due to the more town sheen he had as part of the 3 lynch candidates, I fully expect a scum smudging today. As others have said there is a possibility he died protecting someone else, I really doubt there is any way we will know short of there being some town tracker/watcher who saw the way it went down. Today, time for a reread, and no doubt we will end up discussing lynch the lurker. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/446 "2011-12-05T18:46:07Z")
Just my $0.02 - I think the more likely scenario is one in which scum killed \*\*wevets \*\*directly on the assumption that he was a vanilla townie. It is not clear to me who wevets would have been protecting, and the odds that \*\*wevets \*\*would have been protecting someone and scum picked just that player are low, given that no one clearly stood out as being in need of protection from scum killing. It’s just not clear to me how both scum and \*\*wevets \*\*would have converged on someone to protect/kill on the basis of the thread. To be sure, I take it that **wevets** would not have been aware of power roles beyond what he could read in the thread. Besides, the miain candidates for protection would have been the cop, who ended up getting killed. A doctor would have probably self-protected at this stage, so if **wevets** was protecting anyone he was probably not doing it right. Perhaps \*\*wevets \*\*should have just self-protected (if that is possible). So working on the assumption that \*\*wevets \*\*got picked out by scum directly, this would presumably have had something to do with his almost-lynching, but I can’t really figure out why scum would be interested in lynching him. After all, the town clearly had a bit of a scum-lean on him given that he got three votes to lynch him, making him tied for a lynch with \*\*fisha \*\*and **PCM**. Why would scum kill off someone that they know town falsely suspects? **PCM** could have saved himself but did not, which gives him a claim to townness, but this was not true for **wevets** so in the absence of his lynching the suspicions on the part of those who voted for him should have persisted I think. Perhaps this is a reason to re-evaluate the possibility that \*\*wevets \*\*_was_ protecting someone. Another option that is in the realm of possibility but that seems insanely unlikely, is that: 1. **wevets** was killed by a vig killing a lynch candidate who got away, finishing the town’s work 2. **gregorio** was killed by a serial killer trying to make his kill look like a vig kill 3. A scum kill was thwarted by scum ineptness or by a doctor or roleblocker preventing a scum kill from going through. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/447 "2011-12-05T20:30:00Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Just out of curiousity, who would you have voted? PCM I think, as stated here [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14524071&postcount=391](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14524071&postcount=391) . But obviously, I’d read the EOD by then so it’s probably biased. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/448 "2011-12-05T21:02:29Z")
\*\* vote Inner Stickler \*\* He’s posted loads, but the vast majority of it is basic mafia strategy to help the people asking questions. Which is very good scum strategy because he gets to be both loud and helpful without much risk. Even his vote managed not to actually say anything too controversial, only repeating cases against other players. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/449 "2011-12-05T21:03:33Z")
\*\* Will Hirka T’Bawa be mod-killed if he continues not to post \*\* ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/450 "2011-12-05T22:21:40Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > :snipped: > > I think so, too. Wouldn’t this indicate a town-alligned vigilante, then? I don’t think a scum team would have much motivation to get rid of lurkers. Nor would a SK, right? It’s been suggested before that a common strategy for an SK is to emulate vig killings and then claim vig, it really depends on their wincon. > [@septimus](#): > > I want to focus instead on the anti-Town non-voters (and perhaps one-off voters). Scum would have been delighted to hide in this group, especially if, as it appears, all 3 Lynch candidates were Townies. Well, focusing on Orcenio and Hirka won’t get you very far. Gregorio and fisha are dead so that leaves Scathach, GnarlyCharlie and Svejk, right? What are your thoughts? > [@fubbleskag](#): > > 1. Precambrianmollusc (m): active, mostly mechanics; two caseless votes [slight lean scum] > 2. fluiddruid (f): active, with a late start; weak omgus vote [slight lean scum] > 3. fisha (f): active, mostly mechanics; one weak case [slight lean scum] > > Vote Precambrianmollusc How did you choose between them? > [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I have just manged to get on the net for a bit. The island sounds nice. When you get a chance, I had a question for you: > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > SilverJan’s play this game is certainly different but she has other priorities which go a long way towards explaining the sobriety. I’d like to know what she thinks Svejk could possibly know that makes him suspicious of her now: “I find it very curious that a random vote has turned to a suspicious one, is it just semantics or does he know more than I do?” > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > **PCM** could have saved himself but did not, which gives him a claim to townness This is the second or third time you’ve asserted this and, as has already been pointed out, it’s not true. PCM himself says he simply wasn’t around in time to change his vote. I agree that his comments about Wevets and his reason why he probably wouldn’t have changed his vote ring Townie but who knows what he would have done if he’d had the chance? As for Wevets, we don’t know how his role works, he could have been a body guard for all Town (and thus the default N1 kill), he may have been linked to a single preselected player rather than being able to choose who to protect, someone may have redirected actions to him, he may just have got lucky (as per his role, not as a player), but being a scum kill would surprise me. Now, he may well have left some hint to his role, a breadcrumb or loaf, but I haven’t noticed anything in his posts that would make scum think he’s a doc or other protective role. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Unvote Precambrian > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Unvote Fubbles Did you give any reason for these unvotes? Was it just the implicit “I think the person I’m now going to vote for is scummier”? ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/451 "2011-12-05T22:57:25Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > [QUOTE=septimus] > > I want to focus instead on the anti-Town non-voters (and perhaps one-off voters). Scum would have been delighted to hide in this group, especially if, as it appears, all 3 Lynch candidates were Townies. Well, focusing on Orcenio and Hirka won’t get you very far. Gregorio and fisha are dead so that leaves Scathach, GnarlyCharlie and Svejk, right? What are your thoughts? [/quote] How am I in this group? > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > [QUOTE=me] > PCM could have saved himself but did not, which gives him a claim to townness This is the second or third time you’ve asserted this and, as has already been pointed out, it’s not true. PCM himself says he simply wasn’t around in time to change his vote. I agree that his comments about Wevets and his reason why he probably wouldn’t have changed his vote ring Townie but who knows what he would have done if he’d had the chance? [/quote] Well if you agree then why are we arguing? If his vote rings town to you, then clearly it \*is \* true that he has a claim to townness. That is all I said in the post you quote, I did not say anything about whether I find that claim justified. Besides, to reiterate, I was not interested in saying too much about **PCM** in the first place but rather in contrasting his situation with that of the late **wevets** , who came close to being lynched and who during the night could not lay claim to anything exhonorating in the way that PCM could and did. > [@Guiri](#): > > As for Wevets, we don’t know how his role works, he could have been a body guard for all Town (and thus the default N1 kill), he may have been linked to a single preselected player rather than being able to choose who to protect, someone may have redirected actions to him, he may just have got lucky (as per his role, not as a player), but being a scum kill would surprise me. Now, he may well have left some hint to his role, a breadcrumb or loaf, but I haven’t noticed anything in his posts that would make scum think he’s a doc or other protective role. Why would a scum kill surprise you? From what I’ve read about body guards, all of the other scenarios that you list seem much less likely than a lucky scum kill. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/452 "2011-12-05T23:41:25Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > How am I in this group? I think he was counting you among the “one-offs” (i.e. people who were the sole voter of one suspect) rather than the “didn’t votes,” considering **gnarlycharlie** was a “one-off” voter too (he voted for **Mahaloth** ). That said, if he _did_ mean the “one-offs,” then I should’ve been in there too with my solo vote for **Inner Stickler**. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/453 "2011-12-05T23:42:28Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > How am I in this group? The one-off vote. > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Well if you agree then why are we arguing? If his vote rings town to you, then clearly it \*is \* true that he has a claim to townness. That is all I said in the post you quote, I did not say anything about whether I find that claim justified. Besides, to reiterate, I was not interested in saying too much about **PCM** in the first place but rather in contrasting his situation with that of the late **wevets** , who came close to being lynched and who during the night could not lay claim to anything exhonorating in the way that PCM could and did. OK, I read your post as “he chose not to change his vote”. > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Why would a scum kill surprise you? From what I’ve read about body guards, all of the other scenarios that you list seem much less likely than a lucky scum kill. Scum tend to kill known or suspected power roles, players who pose a threat to them, and players who are either confirmed Town or considered Town by the majority and therefore unlikely to be mislynched. Wevets didn’t claim and I didn’t see any indication that he was a power role, his vote on Fluiddruid was random and the reasoning for the one on PCM didn’t appear to gain any traction, and I don’t think that the survivors of the three way tie would have become unlynchable. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/454 "2011-12-05T23:45:23Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I think he was counting you among the “one-offs” (i.e. people who were the sole voter of one suspect) rather than the “didn’t votes,” considering **gnarlycharlie** was a “one-off” voter too (he voted for **Mahaloth** ). > > That said, if he _did_ mean the “one-offs,” then I should’ve been in there too with my solo vote for **Inner Stickler**. You’re correct, I’m not sure how I managed it but I also missed Mahaloth. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/455 "2011-12-05T23:59:07Z")
Meh, now I remember, Mahaloth didn’t place a one-off vote, Astral unvoted Fubbles. [spoiler] **Day 1 Vote Count** : **fisha** (3): SilverJan(318), MentalGuy(323), InnerStickler(357) **Precambrian** (3): [del]Astral(193-331)[/del], Septimus(214), Wevets(278), fubbleskag(359) **Wevets** (3): fluiddruid(266), Precambrian(279), Astral(364) **Choie** (2): Guiri(82), SpecialEd(351) **SilverJan** (1): [del]Svejk(119-329)[/del], fisha(302) **InnerStickler** (1): [del]Guiri(81-82)[/del], Choie(360) **SpecialEd** (1): Svejk(361) **Fubbleskag** (1): Mahaloth(235), [del]Astral(331-364)[/del] **Mahaloth** (1): [del]MentalGuy(254-323)[/del], GnarlyCharlie(370) **Svejk** (0): [del]Precambrian(136-310)[/del], [del]Mahaloth(159-235)[/del] **Fluiddruid** (0): [del]Choie(207-360)[/del], [del]Wevets(219-278)[/del] **Not voting** (4): Scathach, gregorio, Hirka T’Bawa, orcenio[/spoiler] Anyway, the point of the question was that I’d like to hear how Septimus is getting along with his focus on that particular group of players. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/456 "2011-12-06T00:32:35Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > [spoiler]I’ll admit, in games past, I did a lot of looking back, a lot of quoting, a lot of detailed analysis. I explained myself time and again. I tired to convince others to agree with me. > > Ask any experienced players how well that worked out for me. > > I have more fun when I just read along, make my comments, and vote. Make a few comments I find amusing, and try to win. I don’t spend a lot of time looking back anymore. I rely on my effort and the efforts of others to remind me of things that happened. > > I’ve actually done much better recently, but more importantly, I’ve enjoyed the games more. > > While it might be nice to get more explanation out of my, a more seasoned player, it’s probably not highly likely. > > If you’re unhappy with it, I can certainly understand. I have gone trough games where I called people out for being lazy myself. “Idiot” was probably my favorite word. However, they’ve won me over. Now, when I see something I don’t like, I’m probably just going to say “Bah” Maybe explain myself at some point, and leave it to everyone else to decide what they want to do about it.[/spoiler] bah. > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Is that a good thing or a bad thing? well, it means I expect to find that you’re good at this game; haven’t decided yet if it means that you’re town or scum or has any relation to your alignment at all. speaking of good players, I’m really impressed with Svejk; I would never have guessed him for a new player and he seems to have picked this up loads faster than me. admittedly, that could say more about me than him. > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Could you share your thoughts on Astral Rejection? as I mentioned, it was well beyond my normal bed time at that point. I honestly have no recollection of how I chose between the three. picking randomly from the three doesn’t sound like something I would do - did PCM have more votes at that point than the other two? that sounds like something I would do in that situation. probably not the answer you’re looking for, was it? > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > It’s been suggested before that a common strategy for an SK is to emulate vig killings and then claim vig, it really depends on their wincon. see, I probably never would have come up with that on my own. my mafia experience so far has been limited to getting mis-lynched very early for being horrible at making my thoughts understood and that one time that I ruined **Meeko** ’s first mafia game by misreporting my results as Town Cop. that still gives me fits of giggles when I think about it. regarding the night activity, I think I’m in the camp that thinks the Cop was a lurker vig and that the bodyguard took a bullet for some lucky townie, based on the theories I’ve read so far. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/457 "2011-12-06T00:33:35Z")
oh and a shameless plug for a sdmb mafia related chrome extension I’m working on - looking for feedback/ideas: [Mafia players: SD Mafia Tools (Chrome extension) - The Game Room - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=633629) ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/458 "2011-12-06T00:50:52Z")
Agreed about Svejk, impressive. Fisha was in the lead when you voted although you may not have seen Inner’s vote which broke the 5? way tie 15 minutes before your post. I think you cut your answer to my question about Astral. I ask about him because he put a lot of effort into his case against Wevets and you (almost) have a theory about big Day 1 cases. I thought the incorrect results was an intentional ploy to draw out scum by their reactions! ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/459 "2011-12-06T00:53:54Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > \*\* vote Inner Stickler \*\* > > He’s posted loads, but the vast majority of it is basic mafia strategy to help the people asking questions. Which is very good scum strategy because he gets to be both loud and helpful without much risk. > > Even his vote managed not to actually say anything too controversial, only repeating cases against other players. I have a question for you and for others who are using this reasoning for casting votes: What is the criterion for making this judgement. Is there a formula? Is it so many bit of game strategy over total number of posts? Did you actually go back and look or are you basing it on memory? It strikes me as an easy way to cast a vote for someone who is posting about basic game strategy and being helpful, which, in my book are hardly Scum tells. And I know it’s been sued before, but I tend to be suspicious with people who copy someone else’s bad reasoning for casting votes. It strikes me as even worse han using the bad reasoning in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/460 "2011-12-06T00:56:42Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > bah. :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=24)