# Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase \[Newbie Friendly!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526 "2011-11-20T06:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/461 "2011-12-06T00:59:40Z")
Me, I just think it’s funny because I’ve been lynched for general helpfulness multiple times and yet I still keep at it. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/462 "2011-12-06T01:58:54Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I think you cut your answer to my question about Astral. I ask about him because he put a lot of effort into his case against Wevets and you (almost) have a theory about big Day 1 cases. ah shit, I see now that I butchered everything in my quote/reply - that’s what I get for trying to do too many things at once. my (almost) theory didn’t seem very popular, so I’m not really sure there’s anything to it. the theory is probably fueled by the fact that I’ve always been town and have trouble building even a weak case on Day 1 but imagine that as scum I would have no difficulty making shit up or grasping at straws in order to build a case because I would know that the person I’m attacking is the enemy so there’s no “what if I’m wrong” fears. if there’s any truth to that theory, I suppose he deserves a second look; but in his defense, he did voluntarily back off of his case against me when he realized some aspects of it were factually incorrect - not something I would expect a scum to do (similar in vein to **PCM** ’s admission regarding not vote-saving himself, I suppose). and there’s always the chance that I’m over compensating to avoid allowing myself a OMGUS vote against him; sort of a mafia version of stockholm syndrome? > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > I thought the incorrect results was an intentional ploy to draw out scum by their reactions! if only I were that clever > [@special\_ed](#): > > I have a question for you and for others who are using this reasoning for casting votes: > > What is the criterion for making this judgement. Is there a formula? Is it so many bit of game strategy over total number of posts? Did you actually go back and look or are you basing it on memory? I didn’t actually classify each post by type and plug the tallies into a formula, no. I did review each players Day 1 activity one at a time and made a note of my overall impression of the comparative amount of fluff, mechanics, and scum hunting, though; if there was a lot of the first two and very little (compared to everyone else) of the third, you earned scum points. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/463 "2011-12-06T02:07:14Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > I didn’t actually classify each post by type and plug the tallies into a formula, no. I did review each players Day 1 activity one at a time and made a note of my overall impression of the comparative amount of fluff, mechanics, and scum hunting, though; if there was a lot of the first two and very little (compared to everyone else) of the third, you earned scum points. And just to be clear: Would you agree that on Day 1: 1. Most game mechanic discussions will take place as people figure out the game. 2. In a game with newer players, more helpful posts are to be expected. 3. Scum hunting is at its most difficult. And if so, how can you just a player who participates in more 1 and 2 and less of 3 as scummy? Are you just trying to fabricate a reason to vote for someone? Since someone else used this reasoning earlier, did it seem like a convenient place to park your vote without doing any real ‘scum hunting’ of your own? Do you have any experience that would lead you to believe that people who act the way you describe tend to turn up Scum? Do you have any reason why a Town player would be less helpful or less involved in game mechanic discussion? Or are you trying to pass this analysis off as Scum hunting? ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/464 "2011-12-06T02:09:07Z")
I’m mainly just popping in to let other players know I haven’t disappeared. I won’t be contributing much until tomorrow night. In the meantime, I am pretty much just "me-too"ing what other players said. I think gregorio was definitely a vig kill. I think Wevets was killed by scum, but I am not sure if it was because he was protecting someone, or if he was the direct scum kill. About the only reason I can think of for scum to kill him would be to create WIFOM, but I have not went back and read closely to see if he might have done something to make scum believe he was valuable. Anyway, I think I will be able to contribute more tomorrow evening. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/465 "2011-12-06T02:25:31Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I have a question for you and for others who are using this reasoning for casting votes: > > What is the criterion for making this judgement. Is there a formula? Is it so many bit of game strategy over total number of posts? Did you actually go back and look or are you basing it on memory? > > It strikes me as an easy way to cast a vote for someone who is posting about basic game strategy and being helpful, which, in my book are hardly Scum tells. > > And I know it’s been sued before, but I tend to be suspicious with people who copy someone else’s bad reasoning for casting votes. It strikes me as even worse han using the bad reasoning in the first place. Hi Ed! just to let you know that I am still going to be on your case, I thought I’d chime in here. The reasoning for voting yesterDay for you was bad at all. For one thing, my vote against you was not based solely on you being helpful (:dubious:) and talking about strategy while not actually participating in game play, which I consider freeriding. It was also because I did not like how you responded, and much more so because I thought your case against **choie** and FoS against the late **Fisha** constituted, as I’m sure you’ll recall, ‘weak-ass shit’ ([link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14521527#post14521527)). ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/466 "2011-12-06T02:29:39Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Hi Ed! > > just to let you know that I am still going to be on your case, I thought I’d chime in here. The reasoning for voting yesterDay for you was bad at all. > > For one thing, my vote against you was not based solely on you being helpful (:dubious:) and talking about strategy while not actually participating in game play, which I consider freeriding. It was also because I did not like how you responded, and much more so because I thought your case against **choie** and FoS against the late **Fisha** constituted, as I’m sure you’ll recall, ‘weak-ass shit’ ([link](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14521527#post14521527)). OK, and as you probably noticed, I’ve had no real issue with your vote. Being wrong doesn’t equal being Scum. And using a bad idea doesn’t equal Scum. In my experience, however, Scum love to take a bad idea that can lead to seemingly easily justified votes and run with it. I can’t remember if anyone else used the reasoning. In fact, I didn’t remember it was you who came up with it. Did anyone else use it as well? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/467 "2011-12-06T02:32:28Z")
NETA: Well, I do recall having an issue with you using the “someone once said that {insert what Ed did here} was a Scum tell.” as a part of your reasoning. And I still contend that you are wrong, but did I ever call you Scummy for your vote? ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/468 "2011-12-06T02:32:59Z")
> [@choie](#): > > (I can’t believe this is your first game, **Švejk**. Dayum you’re knowledgable.) > [@fubbleskag](#): > > speaking of good players, I’m really impressed with Svejk; I would never have guessed him for a new player and he seems to have picked this up loads faster than me. admittedly, that could say more about me than him. > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Agreed about Svejk, impressive. Aw shucks, thanks guys! 🙂 Wait a moment … is flattering someone a scum tell? :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/469 "2011-12-06T02:33:05Z")
Vote Count: Inner Stickler (1): Scathach > [@Scathach](#): > > \*\* > Will Hirka T’Bawa be mod-killed if he continues not to post > \*\* I’ll try and sub him out. But yeah, if he or a sub don’t show up by midDay 3-ish, I’ll have to mod-kill him. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/470 "2011-12-06T02:36:31Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Aw shucks, thanks guys! 🙂 > > Wait a moment … is flattering someone a scum tell? :mad: snuggling, maybe. Do you feel yourself a little less willing to vote for them? 😉 oh crap, another game mechanic post? I’m blowing up that average. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/471 "2011-12-06T02:40:33Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > OK, and as you probably noticed, I’ve had no real issue with your vote. Being wrong doesn’t equal being Scum. And using a bad idea doesn’t equal Scum. Thanks for the clarification. I realize you never did call me scummy, which I appreciate. What I don’t appreciate, of course, is you calling me wrong, but I guess that is to be expected 🙂 > [@](#): > > I can’t remember if anyone else used the reasoning. In fact, I didn’t remember it was you who came up with it. Did anyone else use it as well? I’m sorry I can’t parse this bit. What are you asking? > [@special\_ed](#): > > Well, I do recall having an issue with you using the “someone once said that {insert what Ed did here} was a Scum tell.” as a part of your reasoning. I remember that - but that was not really an essential part of my reasoning as it was a (failed) attempt at buttressing my argument by an appeal to authority. In retrospect, I should have left it out and just relied on my own reasoning that {insert what Ed did here} was a scum tell. Oh well, live and learn. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/472 "2011-12-06T02:43:10Z")
Snipping out the parts that don’t really need comment: > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > I’m sorry I can’t parse this bit. What are you asking? I was asking if anyone else had used the scum hunting to game mechanics+fluff+helpful posts ration as justification for a vote. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/473 "2011-12-06T03:01:18Z")
I’m still not sure I understand; it is your contention that people _did_ use that as a justification, so I imagine you have some examples of this happening. Again, it is only a limited part of my reasoning (I am not sold on **Scathach** ’s case against **Stickler** for instance). I did not copy it from someone else. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/474 "2011-12-06T03:03:47Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > I’m still not sure I understand; it is your contention that people _did_ use that as a justification, so I imagine you have some examples of this happening. > > Again, it is only a limited part of my reasoning (I am not sold on **Scathach** ’s case against **Stickler** for instance). I did not copy it from someone else. Well, it’s obvious that people did use it as justification. You mentioned it in passing. Fubble used it as the basis for a vote. Did you notice anyone else using it? ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/475 "2011-12-06T03:22:46Z")
No, it’s not been on my radar. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/476 "2011-12-06T03:34:21Z")
Just wanna say that the person who was most helpful to me in **De’endee** was that mofo **Stanislaus** , who ended up shooting me in the head, I believe. He was one of the last two scumbags and was almost _never_ seriously considered scum. I think his overall thoughtfulness and helpful advice helped that perception. Meanwhile I was being snuggled like a newly opened Tickle-Me-Elmo on Christmas morning. So, just sayin’. I think there _is_ a big of understandable suspicion involved when someone is being a bit _too_ helpful. But it’s difficult because some people really _are_ trying to be helpful. Which I guess means it’s a null-tell. FWIW I have to agree with **special ed** \* that I don’t think parsing people’s comments into fluff/not fluff/mechanics/scum-hunting is all that useful for Day One. That said, the only person I have a marginally scummy reading for yet is **Inner Stickler** , and he’s been very helpful so far, so who the hell knows at this point. - Assuming that’s the point of his use of the Socratic Method with **Svejk**. 😃 * * * This is more for my own edification/record-keeping, but here’s a look at how the vote count from Day One shapes up: There are 8 votes on people I now know to be Townies. \*(That’s 6 for the rest of you-- in other words, taking me out of the equation.) \* The people I now know to be Townies (me, **wevets,** and **fisha** ) voted for **Silver Jan** , **Inner Stickler** , and **precambrianmollusc**. \*(If you take me out of the equation, remove **Inner Stickler** from that list.) \* People who may or may not be scum who voted for now-known (according to me) Townies: **fluiddruid** (wevets), **GuiriEnEspana** (choie), **Inner Stickler** (fisha), **MentalGuy** (fisha), **precambrianmollusc** (wevets), **Silver Jan** (fisha), and **special ed** (choie). \*(If you take me out of this, then remove **Guiri** and **special ed**.) \* Again, this may very well mean nothing, considering the lack of knowledge on Town’s part is considerable on Day One, but I wanted to jot this down just in case. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/477 "2011-12-06T03:42:23Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Well, it’s obvious that people did use it as justification. > > You mentioned it in passing. Fubble used it as the basis for a vote. Did you notice anyone else using it? I did? ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/478 "2011-12-06T03:56:51Z")
Hey, First, sorry for being away! It has been a really bad week, had to work pretty much all of last week and this weekend. I’m on day 8 in a row working 12 hour shifts, and haven’t had time to even read the thread let alone write anything. I can’t believe I missed a whole freaking day!!! And then I come back, and we lost 2 town power roles. Not a good start at all. Again, Sorry! I work another shift tomorrow, but then I’ll be off Wed, Thu, Fri before going back for the weekend. So… When does this day end? I want to make sure I don’t miss another day! I’m going to read day one now, and then go to sleep, have to be up at 6am (dang 8am to 8pm stores! 9am to 9pm is MUCH better!). I’ll be back to post something actually constructive tomorrow night / Wed all day. Just wanted to make sure I let y’all know I haven’t abandoned the game, just RL got in the way. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/479 "2011-12-06T04:04:57Z")
> [@Trepa\_Mayfield](#): > > It is now Day 2. Day 2 ends at 10:00 AM MGT on Friday, Dec 9th. I dunno what MGT means. Mountain Grazing Time? Median Greenwich Time? ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2011, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/480 "2011-12-06T04:44:10Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > And just to be clear: > > Would you agree that on Day 1: > > 1. Most game mechanic discussions will take place as people figure out the game. > 2. In a game with newer players, more helpful posts are to be expected. > 3. Scum hunting is at its most difficult. those seem like reasonable assumptions, yes. > [@special\_ed](#): > > And if so, how can you just a player who participates in more 1 and 2 and less of 3 as scummy? this looks like it’s missing a few letters/words; I’ll assume you meant something along of the lines of “…justify considering a player…”. I can justify doing so on Day 1 simply because it’s Day 1 and we have almost literally nothing to go on. when I made an abstain vote, I was encouraged by multiple people to make a vote, any vote, even if it was random or a bullshit policy vote. I reviewed every player’s posts one at a time and made notes about a number of things, including their activity level and substance; from these notes, and a little bit of gut feeling, I came up with where I felt they best fit into my arbitrarily created alignment scale. from there, I picked a vote. > [@special\_ed](#): > > Are you just trying to fabricate a reason to vote for someone? isn’t that what we’re all doing on Day 1? unless you mean did I pick a person in advance and then come up with a reason to vote for them? no. if I were going to do that, I would have voted for **Mahaloth** because everyone hates him and wishes he wouldn’t play Mafia, or so I hear. > [@special\_ed](#): > > Since someone else used this reasoning earlier, did it seem like a convenient place to park your vote without doing any real ‘scum hunting’ of your own? if they did, I didn’t notice it, so no. > [@special\_ed](#): > > Do you have any experience that would lead you to believe that people who act the way you describe tend to turn up Scum? I’ve never survived long enough to get a true feel for how scum behave. > [@special\_ed](#): > > Do you have any reason why a Town player would be less helpful or less involved in game mechanic discussion? of course I don’t, because that’s not at all a fair description of my approach. > [@special\_ed](#): > > Or are you trying to pass this analysis off as Scum hunting? I’m not trying to pass anything off as anything; it’s the way I play the game right now - I’m sure that will change over time as I become more experienced. maybe after a few more games, I’ll decide that I can’t be bothered to contribute anything more than a grunt here and there because I’m not having any fun. > [@special\_ed](#): > > oh crap, another game mechanic post? I’m blowing up that average. are you consciously competing with **Mahaloth** for the game cry baby award? > [@special\_ed](#): > > Well, it’s obvious that people did use it as justification. > > You mentioned it in passing. Fubble used it as the basis for a vote. Did you notice anyone else using it? to be clear, I did not use it as the basis for my vote. I used it as one factor in assigning +/- values to each player and then chose a vote from those with the lowest score. > [@choie](#): > > So, just sayin’. I think there _is_ a big of understandable suspicion involved when someone is being a bit _too_ helpful. But it’s difficult because some people really _are_ trying to be helpful. > > Which I guess means it’s a null-tell. > > FWIW I have to agree with **special ed** \* that I don’t think parsing people’s comments into fluff/not fluff/mechanics/scum-hunting is all that useful for Day One. so you’re saying that if Player A makes 50 posts in Day 1, 49 of them are jokes, chatting about the weather, answering new player questions, etc, and in 1 of them they make a “me too” vote, that they should not be given a second thought? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=25)