# Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase \[Newbie Friendly!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526 "2011-11-20T06:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/521 "2011-12-08T04:46:32Z")
Two more things that I would like to point out about **Scathach** : 1. Compare this D1 post: > [@Scathach](#): > > Yeah, I think this is a lot of the problem with talking on D1. It usually ends up as lynching the loud. to this D2 post (bolding mine): > [@Scathach](#): > > \*\* vote Inner Stickler \*\* > > He’s posted loads, but the vast majority of it is basic mafia strategy to help the people asking questions. Which is very good scum strategy \*\*because he gets to be both loud \*\*and helpful without much risk. There seems to be some contradiction here. Is it good or bad strategy? Is it a bad thing to lynch the loud, or should they be voted for? 1. This may be overanalysis, but when \*\*Scathach \*\*actually decided during D1 to go over her thoughts with regard to some of the players (which does not lead to a vote, but still), her method is to look at the people that have already been voted for - as if those are the only people to choose from! Perhaps if you want to just pile-on, you look through the votes that have already been cast, and see where you can hitch your wagon most easily… > [@Scathach](#): > > Ok, this is a good point. So, of the people with votes: > > Svejk: Slight town lean > Fluiddruid: No lean > PCM: Slight scum > wevets: Strong town > Mahaloth: No lean. > Silver Jan: Slight scum. (sorry!, it’s the lack of fluff) > Choie: Slight town ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/522 "2011-12-08T05:17:26Z")
Okay, I am back. Svejk, I think you make some decent points about Scathach, but I am going to **Vote septimus** I agree with Guiri’s case against septimus that he made one claim about focusing on a certain set of players, but then evaded that when called on it. His Day 1 vote for Precambrian was another vote that seemed like a scum possibly looking for a safe place to park a vote. I also agree that his response to Guiri initial accusation did misconstrue what Guiri said. I still have my lingering suspicion of Mahaloth from Day 1, but have not really seen anything since to either intensify it or reduce it. As I was reviewing septimus and Mahaloth, I also became a bit suspicious of fubbleskag, but I will have to investigate that further later. fubbs, I do think you need to just apologize to Mahaloth, since the comments about his “bitchy” tone and players not liking to play with him were unneccessary in the first place and in my opinion simply incorrect. I do hope Mahaloth returns to the game, even if it is just to lynch him. Scathach was not really on my radar before Svejk’s case against her, but I do think Svejk makes some decent points. I still prefer the case against septimus, though. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/523 "2011-12-08T05:58:02Z")
I am so furious right now I could _spit venom_. Just created my analysis of **Inner Stickler** ’s posts and by accident clicked my right mouse button and went off the page, losing the WHOLE FRAKKING THING. Serves me right for not composing it in EditPad, or at least copying the damn thing once in a while. Sorry, just had to vent. I’ll be off re-composing the damn masterpiece and will be back soon. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/524 "2011-12-08T08:04:46Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Two more things that I would like to point out about **Scathach** : There seems to be some contradiction here. Is it good or bad strategy? Is it a bad thing to lynch the loud, or should they be voted for? I don’t think **Scathach** is just voting against **Inner Stickler** because he’s been “loud.” As my crazy wall of words is about to explain. So. Now here’s my last over-analysis of “people whom known townies voted for,” on **Inner Stickler**. Now, since the known townie who voted for him is yours truly, I know my fellow townies are thinking, “um, but you’re not a known townie to us!” Well, obviously. But I am to me, and this is more for my edification than anything else – I’m probably not saying anything you guys haven’t already thought of anyway. [spoiler]Anyway. To start with, if you look at the numbers, **Inner** has 44 posts as of my writing this; this makes him seem pretty productive. However, 16 of those were before the game started (on 11/28). Of the remaining 28 in-game posts, 20 were posted on the first day, 11/28. Let’s look at 'em. - His first in-game post contains a jibe at **special ed** , assuring people that **special ed** ’s accusations are usually wrong. **ed** takes this as normal ribbing/banter. Mind you, later on, **Inner** will make _another_ crack against **ed** , which the latter doesn’t find as funny. More on that when I get to it. - Next he explains how he sees the game and How It Should Be Played: no random votes, grudges are bad lurkers suck, don’t vote against anyone because of some blanket policy, and slips can be useful info but it’s best to find more supportive material to use as a vote rationale. All sensible guidelines. How could anyone really suspect someone who’s so incredibly kind and helpful? - The interaction that follows is so prophetic it’s worthy of a Greek dramatist: **fisha** mentions how much she hates lynching townies. **Inner** responds with basically, “meh, no big deal. They’re almost as useful as scum lynches, in that you can tear apart the people who voted for the Townie as possible scumbags.” **Inner** , need I remind you, voted for **fisha** , the townie. - Next few posts are more help for the newbies, including **wevets** , whom **Inner** reassures by saying not to worry too much about Day One voting, vote however you want and we won’t know till Thursday how the lynchee flips. - When **Mahaloth** votes against **Svejk** for voting randomly, **Inner** immediately leaps to defend the newcomer. “And when a poor newbie like Svejk tries a random vote like he read about in preparation, he gets lambasted for it.” Again the newbies’ protector! The huddled noob masses yearning to breathe free are thus enfolded by **Inner** ’s warm, and clearly trustworthy, embrace. Or is it the embrace of a boa? - Now comes his next anti- **special ed** post. Well, not really _anti_ **ed** , just a jibe saying that **ed** makes people feel inferior. He says this to reassure newbie **orcenio** , and also reiterates that Day 1 is very tough. (Ahem. That’s twice now, just like me. VINDICATION!! Sorry, I won’t harp on this any more, but spotting these posts cracked me up. What can I say, I’m easily amused.) Anyway, **ed** takes the jibe amiss. A few more back and forth banter posts between them along these lines. Clearly there are some rough patches in the **Inner** / **special ed** slashfic romance, for when **Inner** assures **ed** that he holds **ed** in the higher tier of player than his lowly self, **special ed** , perhaps trenchantly, snarks that he hasn’t been snuggled so well in many Days. **Inner** tosses that snark off with a merry “I don’t care, I’m Town this time and don’t have to censor myself” (paraphrase). - In response to someone who again worries about town lynchees, **Inner** says: “One thing that frustrates the hell out of me is at the beginning of the game, when we’re all feeling each other up in the dark, is that if a townie gets lynched, and that specific townie votes for X, then everyone else goes “X must be scum because the poor lynched bastard voted for him!!” /QUOTE]No, but if as the game progresses and we see a surprising number of red names in the list of people who voted for that person, one tends to draw conclusions.” Ha! And of course, here’s your humble **choie** , doing exactly that. Better yet, who was **Inner** addressing? **fisha**. Now that’s some choice dramatic coincidence for you. - Even more prophecy: Another response to **fisha** : “The fact of the matter is that some townies are going to be lynched. The sooner we can put away the hair shirts and accept it philosophically, the better off we’ll be. Make lemonade from your townies and look for the scum who pushed their lynch.” -Fluff and meta chatter finish out **Inner** ’s first day of posts. The next day begins with more game mechanics stuff, and more reassuring **Svejk** , this time advising him to ask **Trepa** whether outside docs are kosher. - And that’s the end of his posts until Dec. 1. When **Svejk** turns against his staunch protector and ponders why **Inner** ’s posts are so fluffy–and, now, nonexistant– **Inner** quickly pipes up to explain that he can’t go online during M-F work days, but he’ll post more often on weekends. (Note: **Inner** ’s 20 posts on the first day were on a Monday; Dec 1 was a Thursday. In fairness, he might have had Monday off if he’s in the U.S. and took an extra post-Thanksgiving vacation day.) - Now it’s still Dec 1 (Again: Thursday. Just sayin’.) and **Inner** ribs me for kvetching about Day One being tough, reminding me that the same thing happened in **De’endee** for harping on how new I was; he also notes that complaining about Day One could be seen as scummy in a Catch-22 sorta way. - And in this post, at long last, **Inner** votes! For… **fisha**. Because… he feels her analysis of **Silver Jan** was too unflattering. He also mentions that **fubbleskag** ’s abstention is annoying, but he’s not sure if that’s as bad as **Mahaloth** ’s reaction to it. So after 21 posts of nuttin’, he lashes out against four of us in a single bound. Now that’s efficient! - I should mention that it’s here that I voted against **Inner Stickler** , for a few jokey reasons (including inviting me to partake in the game in the first place and for being the third vote on **fisha** ) but more seriously for being oddly protective of **Silver Jan**. - Meanwhile, after I point out that I actually haven’t mentioned Day One suckitude all that often, **Inner** apologizes and says that no, he wasn’t making an accusation against me. “I’m not trying to build a case on you because I don’t want to lynch you yet.” _Yet?_ - Dusk arrives, **fisha** meets her maker at the end of an unjust noose, and Nighttime begins. - Now **Inner** and I enter into a mini-feud between the two of us. Most of his subsequent posts are in response to my questions (questions I asked to the players in general, not just him). I asked why scum needs three or four days of Nighttime when they can already strategize during the several days of Daytime. He responds and then (admittedly midly) comments that I’m trying to be subtle, presumably accusing me of scummitude. This goes back and forth a few times, with his stating that he won’t be coy, he thinks I’m trying to hornswoggle the lot of you by pretending to be vanilla Town. The tension between us builds. Talk about Tracy/Hepburn chemistry! If this were really a romance novel we’d end up in a torrid clinch by the last page of the book. - In between he still answers my questions when he uses an arcane phrase (“poggers”) so he’s still a helpful guy. (And I mean that genuinely.) BTW, it’s the weekend now, the time when **Inner** said he’d be more active. As it turns out, he posts twice on Saturday, nothing on Sunday. - Final two posts are on Dec 5 (Monday again): once acknowledging **Scathach** ’s vote against him with a weary “I’ve been lynched before for trying to be helpful, and yet I keep at it.” And the last one jokingly asking what “MGT” means in **Trepa** ’s mod post about when the Day ends. **Analysis** : Well, I think it kinda speaks for itself. **Svejk** and **special ed** seem to take umbrudge against **Scathach** ’s anti- **Inner** vote, as fluff and helpful posts on Day One are completely natural. I actually agree with this. But looking back at **Inner** ’s history was a bit surprsing to me. Even though I’d voted against him, I hadn’t really realized just _how_ unsubstantive (aside from helping the noobs) as a Townie **Inner** was. I didn’t like his vote on **fisha** , and I like even less his lack of any other scumhunting aside from a few scattered posts, and then aside from **fisha** , all his suspicions (mild though they were) were against me. (Of course, this last is not an argument you guys should take seriously, since you don’t know I’m town. I do _not_ expect you to consider this particular point against him. But I have to.) Meanwhile, didja notice anything missing in his history after Day One ended, btw? Here’s a hint: it’s the same thing I found odd about **Silver Jan** ’s post-Dusk posts. The answer: **Inner Stickler** does not make any comment on **fisha** ’s flipping Town. None. No remorse, no “oh crap, sorry about that.” Again, maybe this is normal behavior, but it’s not what I’ve ever done (in my huge long Mafia-playing history :D). I mean, I’ve felt _lousy_ when I’ve voted for someone who turns out to be Town, and I copped to my mistake openly. Then again, as I admitted before, maybe if these two were really Scum they’d’ve definitely replied with crocodile tears, I dunno. Still it’s noteworthy to me and, fair or not, I do judge people by how I’d behave in their shoes. Finally, to be scrupulously honest and fair: I admit that in **De’endee** , the last game I played w/ **Inner** , I started to suspect him _even after he claimed detective (or was it doctor?)_, because he was so unvocal and thus seemingly anti-Town. _Even though his claim was uncontested!_ God, what a nimrod I was. So anyway, this tells you two things: 1) My instincts ain’t perfect, and 2) **Inner** appears to have a posting style that isn’t necessarily a reflection of his guilt or innocence. **Conclusion** : Despite my not trusting my instincts, I have to say that he’s strongly leaning scum to me, possibly in league with **Silver Jan**. If he’s not scum, he’s certainly not helping our side by being so quiet except for the very first day of the game. Post and strategize more, please! [/spoiler] **vote Inner Stickler** It’s not a firm, impossible-to-change vote, so anyone who reads the above history and comes to a different conclusion, please share! ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/525 "2011-12-08T12:37:22Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > [spoiler]Darn, should not have promised that. Now I have to make up my mind. It’s difficult, since as I said I want to vote for people on the basis of things they’ve said that somehow stuck out, but on D2 so far, other than myself, there’s really only been seven people that have actually contributed. Among the contributors I count **Fubbles, Guiri, Astral Rejection, Choie, Septimus, Mahaloth, and Ed** - and some of those only barely. Others have posted but their contributions have often been meager - **Scathach** , for instance, shoots of three quick posts (##447-9) including an easy vote against **Inner Stickler** but has not been back; **Stickler himself only posted twice during D2 (once to ask about _Mountain Grazing Time_) and PreCambrian**, perhaps basking in the fact that his almost-lynch has made other people think he is town, added a quick me-too when D2 began, and joked about when **choie** said ‘can’t we return to ritualistic night-killing’. **GnarlyCharlie** posted twice, but nothing very substantive there either. Other’s have chimed in to apologize for not posting at all, people like **SilverJan** , **Hirka** and **MentalGuy**. > > Add \*\*Orcenio \*\*to that list, and there’s nine people right there who have not contributed on D2. Many of them have done little on D1 as well. There seems to be plenty of room for scum to hide in that group, since it is so large (who would notice a tenth person in that group?). In fact, with three townies dead, there is only 17 people left in the game so that makes this group of nine an absolute majority. If it was only three people or four, I would think that the group would be too small for scum to be hiding in it, it would simply be to obvious, and with (perhaps) a vig killing off lurkers, the risk for scum would be too big - but with a group of 9, the risk for lurking non-contributing scum is much smaller. If there’s five scum, and three are in the group of nine non-contributors, that would give 1/3 scum for that group as opposed to 1/3.5 in the other group of seven contributors (this group does not include myself; for myself, there’s a 0/1 scum ratio). > > Of course, there may not be five scum so I don’t want to just base my vote on those differential ratios. Still, in a group of nine non-contributors, not all can hide behind RL, and as I said, the group is large enough for plenty of scum to hide in comfortably. I think FluidDruid is particularly egregious, a lurker claiming that lurkers should be pursued - but it’s somehow to obvious for me to think it warrants a vote. **Scathach** , on the other hand, I do suspect and will vote for > > [ul] > [li]first she ‘[misreads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14523993#post14523993)’ when EOD is on D1, failing to get in a vote. That raised my eyebrow :dubious: [/li][li]then on D2 she really quickly gets a [vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14533146&postcount=448)in for **Inner Stickler**. Why the rush? [/li][li]she contributes nothing to analysis of the events that just transpired 17 posts earlier, the deaths of \*\*Gregorio \*\*and **Wevets**. Of course, if you already know everything that happened during the night because you are scum, you’d better shut up because you might betray yourself, and there’s no point in asking questions :rolleyes:[/li][li]another quick post is to ask about whether [Hirka T’Bawa](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14533152&postcount=449) is going to be mod-killed. Getting the mod to do your dirty work for you eh? You disgust me! :mad:[/li][li]finally, the case against \*\*Stickler \*\*is razor thin and not elaborate. Essentially it boils down to saying that he hides in plain sight, but D2 at that point was still young, it could be said of others, and of yourself in particular.[/li][/ul] > > In sum: > > vote Scathach[/spoiler] 🙂 > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > [spoiler]Septimus, congratulations! > > Well, there’s a reaction. I concede that your “I want to focus on” may not have been a promise but an intention however you didn’t actually do anything about it. When asked, you forgot that you suspected there were scum among that group and suggested vigging them for being anti-town instead, had nothing to say about the one-offers, so I read your initial comment as hollow posting for the sake of it, probably an attempt to misdirect, and certainly a distraction. Rather than suggesting lines for discussion, you should start the discussion and invite others to add their thoughts. Simply throwing out topics of discussion, without giving your own thoughts, is a nice way to lurk in plain sight. I love how you accuse me of misconstruing your posts given your summary of my contributions! > > You have 8 posts to your name since confirming: a me-too vote on PCM following Astral’s, imho, faulty reasoning. You handwaved questioning about your vote as it was just a “weak day 1” vote, you added absurd post-hoc reasoning which you then wrote off a a joke, and suggested you’d move your vote if something better “came along”. Almost every suspicion you’ve stated has included a “but I was wrong before” qualifier. You invite discussion without chiming in yourself, express suspicion of a group of players without follow up, moan about anti-town players, cheerlead, and then omgus vote me for questioning your intentions. I’m not sure what your hypothetical was intended for but it seemed to be related to my willingness to vote a last minute tie breaker. > > I suspect you’re scum and have been questioning you throughout the game trying to get a better read on you, your latest post has helped. > > Vote Septimus > > I remain suspicious of Scathach, a little less of choie based on her recent posts, and I hope Mahaloth comes back to the game.[/spoiler] 🙂 🙂 > [@special\_ed](#): > > Anti-bah! :mad: > [@MentalGuy](#): > > fubbs, I do think you need to just apologize to Mahaloth, since the comments about his “bitchy” tone and players not liking to play with him were unneccessary in the first place and in my opinion simply incorrect. :smack: **Vote septimus** ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/526 "2011-12-08T13:18:26Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > [ul] > [li]first she ‘[misreads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14523993#post14523993)’ when EOD is on D1, failing to get in a vote. That raised my eyebrow :dubious: [/li][li]then on D2 she really quickly gets a [vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14533146&postcount=448)in for **Inner Stickler**. Why the rush? [/li][li]she contributes nothing to analysis of the events that just transpired 17 posts earlier, the deaths of \*\*Gregorio \*\*and **Wevets**. Of course, if you already know everything that happened during the night because you are scum, you’d better shut up because you might betray yourself, and there’s no point in asking questions :rolleyes:[/li][li]another quick post is to ask about whether [Hirka T’Bawa](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14533152&postcount=449) is going to be mod-killed. Getting the mod to do your dirty work for you eh? You disgust me! :mad:[/li][li]finally, the case against \*\*Stickler \*\*is razor thin and not elaborate. Essentially it boils down to saying that he hides in plain sight, but D2 at that point was still young, it could be said of others, and of yourself in particular.[/li][/ul] In order: -Yeah I missed EOD, can’t defend myself from that one, it is what it is. -Why do you think I might have rushed to get a vote in after missing EOD the Day before? -What analysis is there to do? Speculate on whether there’s a Vig or an SK? What good does that possibly do? -Why are you so certain Hirka is town? As for Inner Stickler, I was reading over people’s Day 1 posts and his stuck out to me the most, so I voted. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/527 "2011-12-08T14:32:27Z")
> [@choie](#): > > [spoiler]]I don’t think **Scathach** is just voting against **Inner Stickler** because he’s been “loud.” As my crazy wall of words is about to explain. > > So. Now here’s my last over-analysis of “people whom known townies voted for,” on **Inner Stickler**. Now, since the known townie who voted for him is yours truly, I know my fellow townies are thinking, “um, but you’re not a known townie to us!” Well, obviously. But I am to me, and this is more for my edification than anything else – I’m probably not saying anything you guys haven’t already thought of anyway. > > [spoiler]Anyway. To start with, if you look at the numbers, **Inner** has 44 posts as of my writing this; this makes him seem pretty productive. However, 16 of those were before the game started (on 11/28). Of the remaining 28 in-game posts, 20 were posted on the first day, 11/28. Let’s look at 'em. > > - His first in-game post contains a jibe at **special ed** , assuring people that **special ed** ’s accusations are usually wrong. **ed** takes this as normal ribbing/banter. Mind you, later on, **Inner** will make _another_ crack against **ed** , which the latter doesn’t find as funny. More on that when I get to it. > > - Next he explains how he sees the game and How It Should Be Played: no random votes, grudges are bad lurkers suck, don’t vote against anyone because of some blanket policy, and slips can be useful info but it’s best to find more supportive material to use as a vote rationale. All sensible guidelines. How could anyone really suspect someone who’s so incredibly kind and helpful? > > - The interaction that follows is so prophetic it’s worthy of a Greek dramatist: **fisha** mentions how much she hates lynching townies. **Inner** responds with basically, “meh, no big deal. They’re almost as useful as scum lynches, in that you can tear apart the people who voted for the Townie as possible scumbags.” **Inner** , need I remind you, voted for **fisha** , the townie. > > - Next few posts are more help for the newbies, including **wevets** , whom **Inner** reassures by saying not to worry too much about Day One voting, vote however you want and we won’t know till Thursday how the lynchee flips. > > - When **Mahaloth** votes against **Svejk** for voting randomly, **Inner** immediately leaps to defend the newcomer. “And when a poor newbie like Svejk tries a random vote like he read about in preparation, he gets lambasted for it.” Again the newbies’ protector! The huddled noob masses yearning to breathe free are thus enfolded by **Inner** ’s warm, and clearly trustworthy, embrace. Or is it the embrace of a boa? > > - Now comes his next anti- **special ed** post. Well, not really _anti_ **ed** , just a jibe saying that **ed** makes people feel inferior. He says this to reassure newbie **orcenio** , and also reiterates that Day 1 is very tough. (Ahem. That’s twice now, just like me. VINDICATION!! Sorry, I won’t harp on this any more, but spotting these posts cracked me up. What can I say, I’m easily amused.) > > Anyway, **ed** takes the jibe amiss. A few more back and forth banter posts between them along these lines. Clearly there are some rough patches in the **Inner** / **special ed** slashfic romance, for when **Inner** assures **ed** that he holds **ed** in the higher tier of player than his lowly self, **special ed** , perhaps trenchantly, snarks that he hasn’t been snuggled so well in many Days. **Inner** tosses that snark off with a merry “I don’t care, I’m Town this time and don’t have to censor myself” (paraphrase). > > - In response to someone who again worries about town lynchees, **Inner** says: “One thing that frustrates the hell out of me is at the beginning of the game, when we’re all feeling each other up in the dark, is that if a townie gets lynched, and that specific townie votes for X, then everyone else goes “X must be scum because the poor lynched bastard voted for him!!” /QUOTE]No, but if as the game progresses and we see a surprising number of red names in the list of people who voted for that person, one tends to draw conclusions.” > > Ha! And of course, here’s your humble **choie** , doing exactly that. Better yet, who was **Inner** addressing? **fisha**. Now that’s some choice dramatic coincidence for you. > > - Even more prophecy: Another response to **fisha** : “The fact of the matter is that some townies are going to be lynched. The sooner we can put away the hair shirts and accept it philosophically, the better off we’ll be. Make lemonade from your townies and look for the scum who pushed their lynch.” > > -Fluff and meta chatter finish out **Inner** ’s first day of posts. The next day begins with more game mechanics stuff, and more reassuring **Svejk** , this time advising him to ask **Trepa** whether outside docs are kosher. > > - And that’s the end of his posts until Dec. 1. When **Svejk** turns against his staunch protector and ponders why **Inner** ’s posts are so fluffy–and, now, nonexistant– **Inner** quickly pipes up to explain that he can’t go online during M-F work days, but he’ll post more often on weekends. (Note: **Inner** ’s 20 posts on the first day were on a Monday; Dec 1 was a Thursday. In fairness, he might have had Monday off if he’s in the U.S. and took an extra post-Thanksgiving vacation day.) > > - Now it’s still Dec 1 (Again: Thursday. Just sayin’.) and **Inner** ribs me for kvetching about Day One being tough, reminding me that the same thing happened in **De’endee** for harping on how new I was; he also notes that complaining about Day One could be seen as scummy in a Catch-22 sorta way. > > - And in this post, at long last, **Inner** votes! For… **fisha**. Because… he feels her analysis of **Silver Jan** was too unflattering. He also mentions that **fubbleskag** ’s abstention is annoying, but he’s not sure if that’s as bad as **Mahaloth** ’s reaction to it. So after 21 posts of nuttin’, he lashes out against four of us in a single bound. Now that’s efficient! > > - I should mention that it’s here that I voted against **Inner Stickler** , for a few jokey reasons (including inviting me to partake in the game in the first place and for being the third vote on **fisha** ) but more seriously for being oddly protective of **Silver Jan**. > > - Meanwhile, after I point out that I actually haven’t mentioned Day One suckitude all that often, **Inner** apologizes and says that no, he wasn’t making an accusation against me. “I’m not trying to build a case on you because I don’t want to lynch you yet.” _Yet?_ > > - Dusk arrives, **fisha** meets her maker at the end of an unjust noose, and Nighttime begins. > > - Now **Inner** and I enter into a mini-feud between the two of us. Most of his subsequent posts are in response to my questions (questions I asked to the players in general, not just him). I asked why scum needs three or four days of Nighttime when they can already strategize during the several days of Daytime. He responds and then (admittedly midly) comments that I’m trying to be subtle, presumably accusing me of scummitude. This goes back and forth a few times, with his stating that he won’t be coy, he thinks I’m trying to hornswoggle the lot of you by pretending to be vanilla Town. The tension between us builds. Talk about Tracy/Hepburn chemistry! If this were really a romance novel we’d end up in a torrid clinch by the last page of the book. > > - In between he still answers my questions when he uses an arcane phrase (“poggers”) so he’s still a helpful guy. (And I mean that genuinely.) BTW, it’s the weekend now, the time when **Inner** said he’d be more active. As it turns out, he posts twice on Saturday, nothing on Sunday. > > - Final two posts are on Dec 5 (Monday again): once acknowledging **Scathach** ’s vote against him with a weary “I’ve been lynched before for trying to be helpful, and yet I keep at it.” And the last one jokingly asking what “MGT” means in **Trepa** ’s mod post about when the Day ends. > > **Analysis** : Well, I think it kinda speaks for itself. **Svejk** and **special ed** seem to take umbrudge against **Scathach** ’s anti- **Inner** vote, as fluff and helpful posts on Day One are completely natural. I actually agree with this. But looking back at **Inner** ’s history was a bit surprsing to me. Even though I’d voted against him, I hadn’t really realized just _how_ unsubstantive (aside from helping the noobs) as a Townie **Inner** was. I didn’t like his vote on **fisha** , and I like even less his lack of any other scumhunting aside from a few scattered posts, and then aside from **fisha** , all his suspicions (mild though they were) were against me. > > (Of course, this last is not an argument you guys should take seriously, since you don’t know I’m town. I do _not_ expect you to consider this particular point against him. But I have to.) > > Meanwhile, didja notice anything missing in his history after Day One ended, btw? Here’s a hint: it’s the same thing I found odd about **Silver Jan** ’s post-Dusk posts. The answer: **Inner Stickler** does not make any comment on **fisha** ’s flipping Town. None. No remorse, no “oh crap, sorry about that.” Again, maybe this is normal behavior, but it’s not what I’ve ever done (in my huge long Mafia-playing history :D). I mean, I’ve felt _lousy_ when I’ve voted for someone who turns out to be Town, and I copped to my mistake openly. Then again, as I admitted before, maybe if these two were really Scum they’d’ve definitely replied with crocodile tears, I dunno. Still it’s noteworthy to me and, fair or not, I do judge people by how I’d behave in their shoes. > > Finally, to be scrupulously honest and fair: I admit that in **De’endee** , the last game I played w/ **Inner** , I started to suspect him _even after he claimed detective (or was it doctor?)_, because he was so unvocal and thus seemingly anti-Town. _Even though his claim was uncontested!_ God, what a nimrod I was. So anyway, this tells you two things: 1) My instincts ain’t perfect, and 2) **Inner** appears to have a posting style that isn’t necessarily a reflection of his guilt or innocence. > > **Conclusion** : Despite my not trusting my instincts, I have to say that he’s strongly leaning scum to me, possibly in league with **Silver Jan**. If he’s not scum, he’s certainly not helping our side by being so quiet except for the very first day of the game. Post and strategize more, please! [/spoiler] > > **vote Inner Stickler** > > It’s not a firm, impossible-to-change vote, so anyone who reads the above history and comes to a different conclusion, please share![/spoiler] It’s a solid case **choie** , sorry you had to type it up twice; if the prose suffered for it I did not notice. At any rate, I think this echoes sentiments I voiced on D1 when I called \*\*Stickler \*\*out on not doing a whole lot that was of substance. I’m glad you did some legwork to substantiate that hunch. The fact that I voted against **scathach** , who voted against **stickler** , should not indicate that I think your case is wrong. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > 🙂 🙂 > > (…) > > **Vote septimus** Way to jump on a bandwagon there - is ‘:):)’ going to be the only justification for your vote? :dubious: > [@Scathach](#): > > In order: > -Yeah I missed EOD, can’t defend myself from that one, it is what it is. > -Why do you think I might have rushed to get a vote in after missing EOD the Day before? > -What analysis is there to do? Speculate on whether there’s a Vig or an SK? What good does that possibly do? > -Why are you so certain Hirka is town? > > As for Inner Stickler, I was reading over people’s Day 1 posts and his stuck out to me the most, so I voted. In order, as well: - sure, it’s possible, but to me, given the rest of the story, it adds to your scummitude - this too is a fair point, but I think it was all too hasty. Why not actually build a case like choie did? It’s better than not voting at all, but only barely. - a lot could have been said and has been said; I am not sure why I need to convince you that analysis is useful. Even simply chiming in to agree can be of use. I suggested this before and you actually [agreed](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14516245#post14516245)at the time. - I am implying that you are certain that he is. I will also point out that I think it’s suspicious that you would be gone from the thread for days, but as soon as someone votes for you, you pipe in with a defence. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/528 "2011-12-08T14:41:06Z")
I’ve been steering clear a bit, but I will vote right now so not to end the Day with no vote. **Vote Special Ed** I’m not sure how to explain this. His style and tone seem…different. It’s hard to put a finger on it. Anyway, that’s my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/529 "2011-12-08T15:08:54Z")
Vote Count: Inner Stickler (2): Scathach, Choie Guiri En Espana (1): septimus Scathach (1): Švejk Septimus (4): Guiri, Astral Rejection, Mental Guy, fubbleskag Special Ed (1): Mahaloth That’s nine votes in, eight more to be cast ( **FluidDruid, SilverJan, Hirka, Orcenio, Inner Stickler, Special Ed, GnarlyCharlie, PCM** ). I actually find myself being more or less sympathetic towards all of these cases except for the one against **Guiri** - watch all of these people be clean and Guiri turn out to be scum :smack:😃 ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/530 "2011-12-08T17:36:38Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Way to jump on a bandwagon there - is ‘:):)’ going to be the only justification for your vote? :dubious: don’t be upset, peach. I liked your case, too, just not quite as much - there’s no way to do 1.5 smilies or I would have. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’ve been steering clear a bit, but I will vote right now so not to end the Day with no vote. > > Vote Special Ed > > I’m not sure how to explain this. His style and tone seem…different. It’s hard to put a finger on it. Anyway, that’s my vote. 😃 > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > I actually find myself being more or less sympathetic towards all of these cases except for the one against **Guiri** - watch all of these people be clean and Guiri turn out to be scum :smack:😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/531 "2011-12-08T19:03:39Z")
I was hoping to avoid this, but even if I stave off Lynch toDay, the same thing will happen toMorrow. So here is my role PM: > [@](#): > > Role PM (town) > Warm, Healing Doctor (Town Doctor) > > You are incredibly appealing to potential sweethearts, with your handsome looks, wealth, commanding personality, and Italian accent. In a romance novel, that makes you a strong candidate to win the heroine’s affection. But watch out for impostors; there are scum out there who offer anything but true love. > > Special Power: > Each night, you can protect a player, keeping them from dying (if they would die). I suggest Town put my claim to the test. Insist that the Vig try to Kill me toNight. I will self-protect (as I did yesterDay and was probably going to do toDay anyway). It seems almost certain we have a Vig, or a Serial Killer pretending to be a Vig which should be just as good for this experiment. I apologize to Town for drawing attention to myself and forcing myself to claim. With the Cop, my Power was less valuable anyway and, hopefully, as the game progresses I will guess right at some point and force Scum to waste at least one Night Kill. As to the charges against me; there seem to be two main ones. 1. I posted about slight hunches and pings, rather than making a full accusation or remaining silent. (Although the details vary, this is almost the same charge **guiri** has made against me in prior games when he was also Town. In at least one of those games he was _not_ Town.) Part of the problem was that having a Power made the game, and my participation in it, seem more important than usual. I’m learning. 2. When replying to a newbie to explain “3rd vote rule” and “Wifom”, I combined the concept into a scenario where the 3rd vote was an alleged Wifom play. This was intended to be helpful in explaining to the newbie, but only half-serious in terms of what might have been happening in the game. I make the same mistake in SDMB threads on politics, etc. Each sentence should be either serious or a joke; combining ideas into a single sentence which is then a “half-joke” is confusing. Again, I apologize to Town, and ask for the simple test. If, as some think, I’m Scum, the Vig will kill me toNight. But in fact, I’ll prove I’m the Doc, stay alive and, I hope, eventually save a life with my Power. Anyway, I made it safely to the 27th largest city in the world. The local Internet shop closed early and I had to brave the perils of wee-hour Sukhumwit just to post this. :dubious: If I’m on-line again at all before end of Day, it will be immediately before EOD. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/532 "2011-12-08T19:33:14Z")
No worries, Septimus. I’m willing to believe your claim for the time being. **Unvote Septimus.** At work, so further case-making will have to wait until I get home. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/533 "2011-12-08T19:43:48Z")
**Unvote septimus** I am also at work, so I will vote someone else tonight. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/534 "2011-12-08T20:21:43Z")
Ooh interesting development. **septimus** throws a spanner into the works! Fun. Thanks for the kind words, **Svejk**. I’m curious, though – if you thought **Inner Stickler** ’s fairly unsubstantive posting was suspicious on Day 1, and agree that my case against him is relatively solid, why do you think **Scathach** ’s argument is flimsy? I admit she didn’t create a wall of words like I did, but her rationale for voting against **Inner** is basically the same reason we both are getting pinged by him. Not that I object on principle to your vote against **Scathach** ,I’m just trying to follow your logic. Meanwhile, **fubbleskag** ’s posting via copy/paste of others’ arguments with only smilies in response is almost as unhelpful as the absention on Day One. C’mon, make an argument with actual text! Though I do get a kick out of how the post looked in the thread search, which doesn’t parse smilies: > [@fubbleskag](#): > > 🙂 🙂 🙂 :mad: :smack: Vote… > > 🙂 > > 🙂 🙂 > > :mad: > > :smack: > > Vote septimus Hee! Viewed that way, it’s even more clear how unuseful this was! I don’t consider this a FOS on you, **fubbleskag** –just an urging that you bring some original or at least discussable points to the table. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/535 "2011-12-08T20:23:29Z")
Ooh, a spike in activity! Vote Count: septimus (2): Guiri, fubbleskag Inner Stickler (2): Scathach, choie Spec Ed (1): Mahaloth scathach (1): Svejk GuiriEnEspana (1): septimus ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/536 "2011-12-08T20:39:56Z")
No worries, Septimus. I’m willing to believe your claim for the time being. **Unvote Septimus.** At work, so further case-making will have to wait until I get home. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/537 "2011-12-08T20:43:34Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Thanks for the kind words, **Svejk**. I’m curious, though – if you thought **Inner Stickler** ’s fairly unsubstantive posting was suspicious on Day 1, and agree that my case against him is relatively solid, why do you think **Scathach** ’s argument is flimsy? I admit she didn’t create a wall of words like I did, but her rationale for voting against **Inner** is basically the same reason we both are getting pinged by him. > > Not that I object on principle to your vote against **Scathach** ,I’m just trying to follow your logic. It’s a fair point. I’ll have to think about that some more. Clearly I can see a case against \*\*Stickler \*\*on these grounds, so it’s rather the justification that Scathach offered in the post in which she votes that’s flimsy. My problem, I guess, is not so much that the justification is ‘razor thin’ as that it is ‘not elaborate’, which at that point, early on in D2 (when Scathach herself was not contributing either) makes it weird to throw out a vote like that. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/538 "2011-12-08T22:34:19Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I was hoping to avoid this, but even if I stave off Lynch toDay, the same thing will happen toMorrow. So here is my role PM: > > > [@](#): > > > > Role PM (town) Did you edit this part of your role PM? I don’t think the experiment will tell us much, you could be a toughguy, bulletproof or have some other way to survive an attack. If you don’t survive, you could still be setting a trap for Town powers so a watcher can identify them. And if you’re telling the truth, what happens if there’s a scum roleblocker or redirector? Anyway, short of a counter claim: **Unvote Septimus** ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/539 "2011-12-08T22:52:38Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I don’t consider this a FOS on you, **fubbleskag** –just an urging that you bring some original or at least discussable points to the table. > [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > No worries, Septimus. I’m willing to believe your claim for the time being. > > Unvote Septimus. > > At work, so further case-making will have to wait until I get home. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > No worries, Septimus. I’m willing to believe your claim for the time being. > > Unvote Septimus. > > At work, so further case-making will have to wait until I get home. Ahem. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/540 "2011-12-08T23:11:42Z")
Holy crap, that’s hilarious! Please tell me it was done on purpose, **fubbleskag**! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=28)