# Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase \[Newbie Friendly!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526 "2011-11-20T06:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/661 "2011-12-12T04:24:15Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > 1. Unlimited, mandatory (must kill each Night) - possible Is this really that popular? That could explain the shooting into the crowd bit… However, I would think if we had a mandatory vig, s/he would have shot at the claimed doctor (who claimed they would self protect), instead of shooting a random non-participatory person. Mandatory vigs must shoot, not that they are penalized if they don’t actually kill… right? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/662 "2011-12-12T04:33:56Z")
> [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Is this really that popular? That could explain the shooting into the crowd bit… However, I would think if we had a mandatory vig, s/he would have shot at the claimed doctor (who claimed they would self protect), instead of shooting a random non-participatory person. > > Mandatory vigs must shoot, not that they are penalized if they don’t actually kill… right? That’s usually how it works. But a mandatory Vig might also want to take care of the non-participants. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/663 "2011-12-12T04:56:28Z")
While I’m awake, I’m going to go ahead and **Vote Švejk** Because I’m still suspicious of **Scathach** , but I agree with proven townie **Astral** that **Švejk** would be a better lynch to prove or disprove the both of them. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/664 "2011-12-12T07:25:22Z")
I am still not sure of the difference between a Vig and an SK, the Vig is usually Town and wins when Town does? Does an SK just have to last to the end of the game? **Astral** ’s death is really a WIFOM to me. He did say that he was going to vote for **Svejk** toDay and lo and behold he was killed. I am really not sure what to think of that. Is **Svejk** scum who decided to take out\*\* Astral\*\* because of what\*\* Astral\*\* said or is it that scum wanted \*\*Svejk \*\* to take the heat for **Astral** ’s death? I don’t know why\*\* Svejk\*\*'s death would either clear or condemn\*\* Scathach\*\* too. If **Svejk** is Town that doesn’t clear **Scathach** although I do agree that if he is scum then I would think it more than likely that\*\* Scathach\*\* is scum too. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/665 "2011-12-12T12:59:03Z")
> [@Silver\_Jan](#): > > I am still not sure of the difference between a Vig and an SK, the Vig is usually Town and wins when Town does? Does an SK just have to last to the end of the game? > > **Astral** ’s death is really a WIFOM to me. He did say that he was going to vote for **Svejk** toDay and lo and behold he was killed. I am really not sure what to think of that. Is **Svejk** scum who decided to take out\*\* Astral\*\* because of what\*\* Astral\*\* said or is it that scum wanted \*\*Svejk \*\* to take the heat for **Astral** ’s death? > > I don’t know why\*\* Svejk\*\*'s death would either clear or condemn\*\* Scathach\*\* too. If **Svejk** is Town that doesn’t clear **Scathach** although I do agree that if he is scum then I would think it more than likely that\*\* Scathach\*\* is scum too. [ul] [li]You seem to understand the difference between Vig and SK. You can think of an SK as a Single person Scum team. Though, sometimes they don’t need to make it to EndGame, sometimes they win if they last to Day % or until there are 5 players left, etc[/li][li]Yes, it’s all WiFoM, true, but that doesn’t diminish the case against Svejk[/li][li]If Svejk is Scum, it increases the likelihood that Scathach is Scum. If he’s Town, it doesn’t change the liklihood that Scathach is Scum.[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/666 "2011-12-12T16:36:39Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > [ul] > [li]You seem to understand the difference between Vig and SK. You can think of an SK as a Single person Scum team. Though, sometimes they don’t need to make it to EndGame, sometimes they win if they last to Day % or until there are 5 players left, etc[/li][li]Yes, it’s all WiFoM, true, but that doesn’t diminish the case against Svejk[/li][li]If Svejk is Scum, it increases the likelihood that Scathach is Scum. If he’s Town, it doesn’t change the liklihood that Scathach is Scum.[/li][/ul] Thank you, it makes it easier to think of the SK as a single person scum team. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Jan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Silver\_Jan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silver_Jan)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/667 "2011-12-12T18:15:51Z")
> [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > Is this really that popular? That could explain the shooting into the crowd bit… However, I would think if we had a mandatory vig, s/he would have shot at the claimed doctor (who claimed they would self protect), instead of shooting a random non-participatory person. > > Mandatory vigs must shoot, not that they are penalized if they don’t actually kill… right? I take it that you mean that if the Vig had taken a shot at the doc and he was self protecting then we could confirm that he is the doc? That’s quite a clever idea. Maybe the Vig thought that s/he would rather get rid of the lurkers first because often scum do lurk, especially if they are new to the game. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/668 "2011-12-12T20:07:13Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > What I’m questioning is the internal consistency of people’s logic. > > I know I’m town, so from that viewpoint Svejk’s actions make no sense as scum. Why lynch one townie over another? (unless it’s some uber machievellian ploy which I’m not understanding) > > So if anything lynching me should at least give a strong hint that Svejk is town. Whereas lynching Svejk will still say absolutely nothing about what alignment I am. > > So given that, I fail to see how supposed townies who found his vote switch suspicious would vote him over me. It doesn’t add up, unless I’ve missed something completely obvious. > [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > While I’m awake, I’m going to go ahead and > > Vote Švejk > Because I’m still suspicious of **Scathach** , but I agree with proven townie **Astral** that **Švejk** would be a better lynch to prove or disprove the both of them. Your position makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/669 "2011-12-12T21:02:27Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > What I’m questioning is the internal consistency of people’s logic. > > I know I’m town, so from that viewpoint Svejk’s actions make no sense as scum. Why lynch one townie over another? (unless it’s some uber machievellian ploy which I’m not understanding) > > So if anything lynching me should at least give a strong hint that Svejk is town. Whereas lynching Svejk will still say absolutely nothing about what alignment I am. Here’s the thinking, at least as I see it. Obviously _we_ don’t know you’re town, so we can’t take that into account. Lynching you doesn’t really prove anything that much about **Svejk**. 1. If you flip town, a town **Svejk** could’ve just been exchanging one townie for another he found more suspicious, particularly if he was uneasy about the sudden bandwagon effect. Meanwhile, the motives of a scum **Svejk** are more obscure; he might have wanted to look innocent and avoid the alleged trainwreck. _Or_ he may have thought that more lurkers would vote and alleviate him of any guilt associated with lynching a townie. (That’s my pet theory if you’re town.) _Or_ I suppose he may have felt that **Inner** was more likely a power role. 2. If you flip scum, we’re stuck with guessing about either an unlucky yet genuine town **Svejk** or a wiser scum **Svejk** , who wanted to avoid your lynching. OTOH, as he looks pretty bad for doing so, an argument could be made that we’d assume he’s _not_ scum. But he’s a new player and it’s possible as scum he just made that mistake in judgment. The whole thing’s a big crap shoot. Meanwhile, let’s reverse this and say we lynch **Svejk** : 1. If he flips town, we can assume nothing about you (as he was probably genuinely fearing the bandwagon that was forming on you). 2. If he flips scum, you look really bad, worse than **Svejk** looks in either of the two scenarios above, IMHO. After all, as you say, a scum **Svejk** is far less likely to exchange a townie for a townie, which means we can assume you’re scum. Also, posts by known townie **Astral** can be taken with a little more seriousness than any of us unconfirmed folks. Kind of like a “dying declaration” has some legal value in a murder case. Of course he could’ve been wrong just as easily as any of us, but one must consider the assumption that he was killed for a reason. I’m really not sure about either of you. The only other person on the **Inner** train whom I’m relatively comfortable with lately is **Guiri** , but even my intuition on him could be wrong. The trouble with this game is that there are _so_ many lurkers or at least people with very low levels of participation. That is really anti-Town and works against the spirit of the game. I just don’t understand why they joined up or, if things got too busy in RL (as is quite typical at this time of year), then they should recuse themselves ASAP and let us take them out of the equation. They’re serving no purpose except making our jobs more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/670 "2011-12-12T21:05:59Z")
/ghostly: Yeah, shame on the lurkers. Why sign up if you won’t play? I don’t get it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/671 "2011-12-12T21:26:38Z")
Well, don’t get me wrong, I would rather see Svejk lynched over me, since I know I’m town but only \*think \*he’s town. I agree with you on lack of participation though. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/672 "2011-12-12T22:30:23Z")
Has \*\*Svejk \*\*disappeared? He hasn’t posted since Day started. **Hirka** , can you respond to the criticism of your vote yesterDay? **Precambrian** , **Fluiddruid** , what do you guys make of yesterDay’s lynch? **SilverJan** , I had a question for you a while back. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/673 "2011-12-12T23:13:50Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Has \*\*Svejk \*\*disappeared? He hasn’t posted since Day started. True. His last post in this thread was on the 10th at 5:30PM ET. FWIW, he posted elsewhere on the board both yesterday and today. As far as your questions to **fluiddruid** and **precambrianmollusc** … yeah, good luck with that. **PCM** was on today but hasn’t posted here since the 6th, and **fluiddruid** is (naturally, as a mod) online a lot but hasn’t posted to the SDMB since the 6th (and her last post in the game was the 2nd). For that matter, where the heck is **septimus** , the only apparently confirmed Townie?! ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/674 "2011-12-12T23:30:17Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > i realized that later at Night. while i was catching up, i decided to vote because i thought the deadline was close. in the posts i was reading he still had 2 votes on him. i never did fully catch up so i missed the unvotes. i took a break and promptly fell asleep. ☹ Can you explain this again? You wanted to cause a 4-way tie with your vote on Mahaloth? Which posts did you read that showed him having 2 votes? ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/675 "2011-12-12T23:38:48Z")
> [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > at the last vote count i read, i saw you had no votes. my vote alone would not have lynched you. since i found **Special Ed** the next most suspicious and he had a vote, i voted for him as well. my ‘helping’ you is not intentional. it wouldn’t be the first time scum made a one-off vote on a fellow scum. You didn’t vote Mahaloth, your number 1 candidate, because he had no votes and another one-off wouldn’t get him lynched so you voted Special Ed, who already had one vote and is your number 2 candidate, exactly 11 minutes before the end of the Day, so he would be lynched? Did you notice the vote count above your post? ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/676 "2011-12-12T23:55:45Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > In the meantime, I am pretty much just "me-too"ing what other players said. I think gregorio was definitely a vig kill. I think Wevets was killed by scum, but I am not sure if it was because he was protecting someone, or if he was the direct scum kill. About the only reason I can think of for scum to kill him would be to create WIFOM, but I have not went back and read closely to see if he might have done something to make scum believe he was valuable. Did you ever go back to see what he might have done? Do you suspect scum killed Wevets to make PCM look townier? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/677 "2011-12-12T23:57:58Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > You didn’t vote Mahaloth, your number 1 candidate, because he had no votes and another one-off wouldn’t get him lynched so you voted Special Ed, who already had one vote and is your number 2 candidate, exactly 11 minutes before the end of the Day, so he would be lynched? Did you notice the vote count above your post? Wait, what are the details here? He cast a basically one-off vote (really a 2 off vote) with 11 minutes to go while the vote was tied? Did he comment on the other vote getters? ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/678 "2011-12-13T00:03:54Z")
> [@MentalGuy](#): > > Svejk, why do you think Scathach is the most likely scum out of the pile of lurkers you mentioned? > [@MentalGuy](#): > > Sorry, that question probably was not clear. Let me ask this. Why I am not considered as suspicious as Scathach? You asked the question and then rephrased it for clarity, didn’t get a response but proceeded to vote anyway. I understand why you didn’t vote for yourself but why did you vote Scathach over all the other lurkers? ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/679 "2011-12-13T00:05:58Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Wait, what are the details here? > > He cast a basically one-off vote (really a 2 off vote) with 11 minutes to go while the vote was tied? > > Did he comment on the other vote getters? Yes, he did: > [@gnarlycharlie](#): > > **Inner** and **scathach** seem to be behaving the way i’ve seen them in the past as town. It just seemed pointless to vote you over Mahaloth when neither of you were going to be lynched, so why make the distinction? ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/680 "2011-12-13T00:55:40Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Did you ever go back to see what he might have done? Do you suspect scum killed Wevets to make PCM look townier? I did go back and reread wevets. I did not find anything I thought notable. I don’t really think I was looking for evidence that they were trying to make PCM look townie at the time, but I don’t remember anything that would have led me to that conclusion. I may have to go back and look at their interaction to see if that would make sense. > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > You asked the question and then rephrased it for clarity, didn’t get a response but proceeded to vote anyway. I understand why you didn’t vote for yourself but why did you vote Scathach over all the other lurkers? Honestly, I did not go back and look at every single player. I think I have mentioned the ones I reviewed, which were Mahaloth, Inner Stickler, Scathach, septimus, and fubbleskag. I reviewed Scathach because I saw Svejk’s case and thought it had some merit. I was asking Svejk the question because I wondered if he had looked at all the lurkers and low participants that closely or if something had just stuck out about Scathach causing him to notice her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=35)