# Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase \[Newbie Friendly!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526 "2011-11-20T06:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/761 "2011-12-15T01:22:50Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > You’ve had a few posts detailing how bad of a player you have been at the start of the game. > > Are you familiar with the term “Scum gloating?” Well, I’ve heard “Scum,” and I’ve heard “gloating,” but I don’t believe I’ve heard the two together before. Wouldn’t gloating indicate, I dunno, saying that I’ve been right on everything and nyeah nyeah nyeah to all of you? All I’ve said is that I’m a better player than I _used_ to be… in my first game… where I was dead awful for 2/3 of the game. It ain’t like I had a very high bar to get past. **Mahaloth** ’s been on my _tuchas_ since Dawn today for no real reason aside for the rather nebulous “play style” and “change in play style” comments, which he has yet to quantify. I’m at a loss to know what he means. So I asked him if by “change in play style” he meant that during Day 2 I’d done some player analyses but hadn’t done as much of 'em on Day 3. If so, I explained that was due to being all too aware that I’d been wrong on **Inner**. Which seems like the opposite of gloating, unless we’re in the Mirror Universe and I didn’t realize it. (Do you have a goatee now, and am I wearing a leather catsuit as befitting my ST:DS9 namesake?) Then when I decided to get past my bad judgment on b]Inner\*\* and tried to do a little run-down of each player as I see 'em (amusingly, I forgot to include you), I came to **Mahaloth** and mentioned his strange “play style” comment again. I opined that at least I’m playing better than before. **Mahaloth** specifically asked me _how_ I was doing a better job at scumhunting, and so I told him: 'at least I’m participating more and thus being more useful to Town than in my very first game, where I spent most of my time foundering. Wow, you’re right, what a massive ego I have! ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/762 "2011-12-15T01:23:30Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > As it happens, in one of your responses to me, you state (as regards your case against me): “Now, is it an iron clad case? No, of course not. But it is highly suspicious” ([here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14551334&postcount=597)); and just now you seem to be agreeing with \*\*Guiri \*\*that \*\*Fubbleskag \*\*is pretty suspicious. How is that essentially different? 2 major differences: 1. I’m expressing suspicion of 2 players to your 4 but more importantly, 1. I’m expressing suspicion based on things I see. You listed the 5 players that were receiving votes and proclaimed support for 4 of the cases. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/763 "2011-12-15T01:24:54Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > no, you’re saying that. I never said anywhere that I’d changed my mind at all. > > he is and you know he is oh my god. Are you playing peeker’s game too? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/764 "2011-12-15T01:27:55Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Well, I’ve heard “Scum,” and I’ve heard “gloating,” but I don’t believe I’ve heard the two together before. Wouldn’t gloating indicate, I dunno, saying that I’ve been right on everything and nyeah nyeah nyeah to all of you? All I’ve said is that I’m a better player than I _used_ to be… in my first game… where I was dead awful for 2/3 of the game. It ain’t like I had a very high bar to get past. yes, but Scum can’t out and out gloat in the game thread, can they? But it’s human nature to be pleased when your side is doing well. So, what happens is that some Scum talk about how badly “we” (Town) are doing. Sometimes a player just can’t resist. So they talk about how they’ve been wrong about everything, and how sorry they are, and how awful they feel, etc. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/765 "2011-12-15T01:40:29Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > yes, but Scum can’t out and out gloat in the game thread, can they? > > But it’s human nature to be pleased when your side is doing well. > > So, what happens is that some Scum talk about how badly “we” (Town) are doing. Sometimes a player just can’t resist. So they talk about how they’ve been wrong about everything, and how sorry they are, and how awful they feel, etc. …Right, but that’s WIFOM up the wazoo. This is also how a townperson who thinks we’re not doing so hot would behave\*. It would be utterly crazy to claim otherwise. We have a batch of useless lurkers, a nearly impotent doc who’ll either keep protecting himself or be killed, a dead investigator, a couple of divas who seem about _this_ close to flouncing every time someone says anything to them, and not a scum corpse to be found. We need to get off our asses, and anyone who’s really Town would feel the same way. (\* Not to mention it’s exactly how I behave both in real life and in the last game, where I was also town. I am… not the most confident person in the world.) ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/766 "2011-12-15T01:41:53Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > yes, but Scum can’t out and out gloat in the game thread, can they? > > But it’s human nature to be pleased when your side is doing well. > > So, what happens is that some Scum talk about how badly “we” (Town) are doing. Sometimes a player just can’t resist. So they talk about how they’ve been wrong about everything, and how sorry they are, and how awful they feel, etc. you know, the more I play this game the more I suspect I might find it not only easier, but more fun, to play as scum. I’m going to request it next game I play. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/767 "2011-12-15T01:42:59Z")
> [@choie](#): > > We have a batch of useless lurkers, a nearly impotent doc who’ll either keep protecting himself or be killed, a dead investigator, a couple of divas who seem about _this_ close to flouncing every time someone says anything to them, and not a scum corpse to be found. which of these is me? (answer honestly, please!) ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/768 "2011-12-15T01:46:55Z")
> [@choie](#): > > …Right, but that’s WIFOM up the wazoo. This is also how a townperson who thinks we’re not doing so hot would behave\*. It would be utterly crazy to claim otherwise. We have a batch of useless lurkers, a nearly impotent doc who’ll either keep protecting himself or be killed, a dead investigator, a couple of divas who seem about _this_ close to flouncing every time someone says anything to them, and not a scum corpse to be found. > > We need to get off our asses, and anyone who’s really Town would feel the same way. > > (\* Not to mention it’s exactly how I behave both in real life and in the last game, where I was also town. I am… not the most confident person in the world.) It’s not wifom, but I’ll agree, it isn’t much of a tell. People’s reactions to mild accusations, however, can be telling. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/769 "2011-12-15T01:50:58Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > you know, the more I play this game the more I suspect I might find it not only easier, but more fun, to play as scum. I’m going to request it next game I play. heh ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/770 "2011-12-15T01:52:01Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > It’s not wifom, but I’ll agree, it isn’t much of a tell. > > People’s reactions to mild accusations, however, can be telling. just what the hell are you trying to imply, mister? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/771 "2011-12-15T01:54:05Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > just what the hell are you trying to imply, mister? Let me be explicit. Sometimes, the way a person reacts to accusations reveals hints as to their alignment. And, I was agreeing that what I said wasn’t really all that definitive. ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/772 "2011-12-15T01:56:31Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > sometimes, the way a person reacts to accusations reveals hints as to their alignment. but what does that mean? ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/773 "2011-12-15T01:57:41Z")
oh shit, I forgot this place automatically converts all caps to lowercase. please read my last post as if it were typed in all caps. thanks! ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/774 "2011-12-15T03:37:55Z")
> [@fubbleskag](#): > > oh shit, I forgot this place automatically converts all caps to lowercase. please read my last post as if it were typed in all caps. thanks! and seriously, your questions are some kind of joke right? Like an internet meme that I don’t understand… ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/775 "2011-12-15T03:42:53Z")
to be fair, Ed, you say ‘Let me be explicit’, but what follows is hardly more explicit than what you said before. If you had in fact been explicit, you would have actually filled in the statement ‘Sometimes, the way a person reacts to accusations reveals hints as to their alignment’ with 1) what person you have in mind; 2) what exactly that ‘way’ is; 3) what the hints are. It’s fine if you don’t but don’t preface that by saying you’ll be explicit. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/776 "2011-12-15T03:52:43Z")
Since I was suspicious of fubbleskag yesterDay, and he seems to be on several other player’s radar, I thought I would review his posting. As with Mahaloth, the primary thing that stood out to me was his vote record. (all votes bleached) > [@fubbleskag](#): > > I don’t have a timezone or pressing other matters to lean on as an excuse, I’m just even more horrible at this game during Day 1 than usual. I always have trouble on Day 1 making a case, even a weak one, for a vote when there’s literally nothing to go on. I’m almost of the thinking that anyone making a remotely serious case for a vote on Day 1 is likely scum trying to avoid suspicion for being too inactive. > > **Vote Abstain** The “Abstain” vote was his first. At the time, I did not really see it as something that scum would do. He did, though, seem genuinely surprised by how negative a reaction it got. If he was not thinking it would be seen in such a negative light, then it is possible that he would do this as scum. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > I told myself I wouldn’t log out tonight without coming up with a vote, so here’s my thoughts on all 20 players’ after a review of Day 1: > > 1. Inner Stickler (m): sporadic activity, mostly mechanics or general information, one case, two FoS [neutral] > 2. Astral Rejection (m): active, some mechanics and two cases [lean town] > 3. Mahaloth (m): active, with two cases; general ‘bitchy’ tone, but I think that’s status quo [neutral] > 4. Scathach (f): less active than others, but seems to be without fluff; doing a lot of out loud thinking and no voting, with one case [neutral] > 5. Precambrianmollusc (m): active, mostly mechanics; two caseless votes [slight lean scum] > 6. gregorio (m): lurker > 7. MentalGuy (m): less active than others, but with two cases [slight lean town] > 8. Hirka T’Bawa (m): lurker > 9. septimus (m): low activity, one caseless (bandwagon?) vote and one FoS [very slight lean scum] > 10. choie (f): active, mostly new player questions; one random vote [neutral] > 11. orcenio (m): lurker; requested sub > 12. special ed (m): very active, mostly fluff/mechanics; one late/weak case; general ‘special ed’ tone, status quo [neutral] > 13. wevets (m): active, one random vote and one weak case [slight lean town] > 14. Silver Jan (f): active (less than usual?) one weak omgus vote [very slight lean scum] > 15. gnarlycharlie (m): lurker > 16. GuiriEnEspaña (m): active, questioning others’ cases, no real cases, provided opinion summary without a vote [very slight lean scum] > 17. Švejk (m): active, lots of new player questions; one random vote, one case [lean town] > 18. fluiddruid (f): active, with a late start; weak omgus vote [slight lean scum] > 19. fisha (f): active, mostly mechanics; one weak case [slight lean scum] > > **Vote Precambrianmollusc** > > and now that it’s 2 hours past my bedtime, I’m going the fuck to sleep! He votes Precambrianmollusc, but doesn’t give any reason beyond what is in the list. The reasons in the list might be sufficient, but he listed others as “slight lean scum” also. Why did he vote Precambrian over the others? > [@fubbleskag](#): > > 🙂 > > 🙂 🙂 > > :mad: > > :smack: > > **Vote septimus** These smilies are responses to other players’ cases or comments. He follows Guiri’s lead here and votes septimus but does not tell what parts of the case he agrees with or if there is anything he doesn’t. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > No worries, Septimus. I’m willing to believe your claim for the time being. > > **Unvote Septimus.** > > At work, so further case-making will have to wait until I get home. Other than this post being an exact copy of someone elses, it is reasonable since septimus had claimed doc. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > I was feeding the poop-machine with one hand and his post said everything I wanted to say at the time, so it was easier to copy/paste (technically, I actually quoted and removed the quote tags) than to type it out. and yet again, I predicted to myself that it would be **Guiri** that noticed I’d done this - paying far too much attention to detail to be scum in my opinion. > > :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: > > not apparently, I did. and I think it may have been three people. > > another detail. I’d like to ask everyone to post the subject line of their role PM if they don’t mind. mine was “Role PM (mafia)” as opposed to being labelled “(town)” or “(scum)” specifically. > > the case on **Scathach** only got one 🙂 on my first review, and I haven’t had a chance to review it further or do any of my own comprehensive reviews, so I’m hesitant to place a vote there right now. > > **vote Septimus** This is where it gets weird. He revotes septimus. Apparently the diffence in the role PM is what leads to it, but he never makes that clear. He also does not really explain in later posts, why he revoted septimus rather than one of the other lynch candidates. > [@fubbleskag](#): > > been very busy lately, only able to read sporadically, not really had a chance to post; admit - very unhelpful for town, but it is what it is > > only have a minute, won’t be fixing typos > > voted \*\*Septimus \*\*because it was my original vote, I hadn’t had time to review any of the other cases or build one of my own, and had already caught a boatload of shit from you lot for not voting; damned either way, it seems > > **fluiddruid** welcome back; understand you’re trying to catch up, but if you’re going to comment on my voting, please catch up more thoroughly before doing so. also, your case against Svejk seems to me somewhat emotional/reactionary - almost as if you’re consciously baiting a new player so that you can then make a ‘smear’ accusation. consider yourself pinged, assuming I have time to review you more thoroughly before the next vote (and live that long, ell oh ell) > > I’m leaning town for **Svejk** ; the cases against him seem weak to me, and he seems genuinely disheartened at the prospect of being falsely lynched. also, as has been mentioned, he seems to be very good at this so far - I’d hate to see one of the better players mis-lynched (as opposed to mis-lynching me, who is notably terrible at this game) > > for the moment, **MentalGuy** ’s case on \*\*Mahaloth \*\*is the only thing that’s really struck with me > > **vote Mahaloth** Here he defends his revote of septimus, but does not mention the difference in role PM. I obviously can’t argue against a vote for Mahaloth, but he again just piggybacks on someone else’s vote without any explanation of his own. I am not sure what to think. For someone that has posted quite a bit, he has not given much explanation for why he has voted the way he has. I am keeping my vote on Mahaloth for now, but I can see why fubbleskag is attracting some suspicion. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/777 "2011-12-15T03:57:10Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > to be fair, Ed, you say ‘Let me be explicit’, but what follows is hardly more explicit than what you said before. If you had in fact been explicit, you would have actually filled in the statement ‘Sometimes, the way a person reacts to accusations reveals hints as to their alignment’ with 1) what person you have in mind; 2) what exactly that ‘way’ is; 3) what the hints are. > > It’s fine if you don’t but don’t preface that by saying you’ll be explicit. oh, I see, I didn’t realize the misunderstanding was that deep. I was explaining the reason for my asking choie about that. Sometimes I jsut make a comment to see how a person reacts. Here is my statement > [@](#): > > People’s reactions to mild accusations, however, can be telling. To answer your questions: 1. This applies to all players 2. There are a large variety of ways a person may react which when coupled with other game factors, they might help to give an indication as to that person’s alignment 3. There are a large variety of hints a person may give (e.g., being overly defensive, being accusatory) which when coupled with other game factors, they might help to give an indication as to that person’s alignment ```auto So, it was just a general statement referring to no one in particular. Do you think fubble's curiosity is a little bit defensive? ~~~~ For the record, nothing in choie's response pinged me. The answer is something I would expect from a Tonie or a very calm Scum. The two are difficult to tell apart usually. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/778 "2011-12-15T06:04:42Z")
Hello Ed, [Earlier](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14562550&postcount=720)I asked you how you figure that a scenario in which I am scum is actually more likely than one in which I am town. Describing a possible scenario is easy enough, but a full case actually requires that you argue why it is more likely that I am scum than that someone else is scum, and probably also that it is more likely that I am scum than that I am town. You would have to stack up my explanation of what I did over against your own understanding of what a scum motivation might have been, and then argue convincingly why you feel that I am, in effect, lying. You claim: > [@special\_ed](#): > > Yes I have. > > I’ve presented what makes me more suspicious of you than of anyone else. > > You may disagree with it. I cannot prove it, but it’s what I’ve got right now. Actually, you have not done that. I’ve gone back over your posts just now, and there’s nothing that constitutes an argument why it is more likely that I am scum, hoping to protect \*\*Scathach \*\*(even if I’m clearly going to draw a lot of criticism for it) than it is that I am town, switching to a stronger case while being apprehensive of the bandwagon that’s formed on **Scathach**. You come closest to addressing this issue when Choie points this out to you [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14565096#post14565096): [QUOTE=choie] So special ed said he didn’t think there were equal chances of these scenarios being true, but I don’t think he elaborated on which he felt was most likely/unlikely. Could you do so now? Ditto anyone else who either a) has corrections to my suppositions or b) wants to offer ideas on these cases. [/QUOTE] Your response: > [@special\_ed](#): > > I just don’t see the reasoning for the vote switch at that time if Svejk isn’t Scum. > > So I’m leaning that way. When choie prods you on this again (post [#746](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14565947&postcount=746)), you don’t respond. That’s pretty weak, and your insistence that you’ve presented what makes you more suspicious of me than of anyone else when you’ve done nothing of the sort seems pretty evasive. As an aside, I’ll note that you are pretty casual in your treatment of the evidence in favor of and against me. In post [#602](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14551974&postcount=602), at about 5PM on Saturday you lay out a number of different scenarios involving my vote switch and what might have motivated it. You mess up scenario 4, in which both I am scum and **Scathach** is town, in which I’d have been knowingly switching from one town train to another. Scathach points that out, and then you come out with this post [#608](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14552159&postcount=608): [QUOTE=Special Ed] [QUOTE=Scathach] That doesn’t make sense. Scum Svejk would know that Inner was town too. Why jump from one town bandwagon to another? [/QUOTE] I don’t recall what the vote count was. When you switched to Inner, wasn’t it still looking like Scathach would be lynched? [/QUOTE] This post is really weird. For one thing, you mix up me and Scathach, the key protagonists in this entire drama. Can’t tell two people apart? Secondly, you don’t recall the vote count? :dubious: The entire crux of this drama is that my vote switch changed the vote Scathach-Stickler from 4-3 to 3-4. How can you forget that? Later on, post [#613](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14552227&postcount=613), you claim that you “hadn’t looked back to see the vote counts.” How can this be true, when the vote count is the basis of your case? This to me is evidence that you are just making an easy case against me and are doggedly refusing to consider any evidence that is in my favor. **Scathach** pursues the issue, essentially saying that her turning up town would provide as much evidence about me as my turning up scum would about her. You concede this in post [#617](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14552250&postcount=617) but ask ’ why wouldn’t he present this in his defense now?'. For one thing, I was not really presenting anything in my defense at all at that point, but for another more important point, if it’s true, it’s true, even if for some reason I overlook it and don’t include in my defense even if I did write a defense, why would you not entertain that as evidence in my favor and adjust your vote calculus accordingly? Of course, it was still N2 and you were not to vote for me for another 30 or so posts ([#646](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14555331&postcount=646)), but when you do, all you offer as reasoning is that “Astral was obviously going to do this…”. A missed opportunity. Again, it appears to me that you are making an easy and unbalanced case against me. Then in post [#757](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14566704&postcount=757) you feel the need to smear me for leaving my options open when lots and lots of players (choie, in post [#736](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14565096&postcount=736), for instance, says “For now, I’ll… vote Scathach. But don’t be surprised if this vote switches as the Day goes on.”) including yourself (“Now is it an iron-clad case? Of course not” - [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14551334&postcount=597) are doing just that, and when in fact it is something that every good townie should be doing given that we all have very little information to go on. When I point this out to you, and ask you how what you are doing is _essentially_ different, what you say is that there are [QUOTE=special ed] 2 major differences: 1. I’m expressing suspicion of 2 players to your 4 but more importantly, 1. I’m expressing suspicion based on things I see. You listed the 5 players that were receiving votes and proclaimed support for 4 of the cases. [/QUOTE] First of all let me note that the case you are making here is based entirely on evidence that I provided when \*\*Guiri \*\* asked me about how convinced I was by his case contra **Septimus**. Secondly, so I said I supported those 4 cases - they were against you and **Stickler** , who I had been suspicious of before, against **Septimus** , who had some votes against him on the basis of cases made by \*\*Guiri \*\*which I had already called convincing, and **Scathach** , which was my own vote. Clearly there are plenty of things that I had happened up until that point in the thread that indicate that I am not just giving blanket support to anyone who votes (what kind of dumb-ass strategy would that be anyway? If I were scum I’d be much more precise in what votes I’d support than that). Thirdly, you act as if what you are doing is somehow completely different, but I have yet to understand what the _essential_ difference between 2 and 4 players is in this case. Now if you had actually pointed out back when I made those statements on D2, that would have seemed genuine, but now it just seems as though you are purposefully out to paint me in as dark a daylight as is possible even when there’s perfectly reasonable explanations that are for what I am doing that are compatible with me being town. In sum: **vote Special Ed** ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/779 "2011-12-15T06:05:51Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > oh, I see, I didn’t realize the misunderstanding was that deep. Thanks for the explanation, but I think the issue here is your misunderstanding of the word ‘explicit’ :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/780 "2011-12-15T06:19:37Z")
Of course, I should offer some argument as to why I think that **Ed** is more scummy than others in the game. In fact, there are a couple of pings out there but nothing that is quite as substantial to me as what **Ed** is doing. Others have pointed most of these things out as well - but in many cases I feel that what is being pointed out is just too obvious to be scum. \*\*Fubbleskag’s \*\*weird unvote-revote for \*\*Septimus \*\*on D2, for instance, just mostly seems to me to be a play by someone who is not investing a lot of time in the game; \*\*Mahaloth \*\*has gotten a number of votes and has placed what I think is a really weird vote on \*\*Choie \*\*(on whom I have a town lean), but again the vote is so weird that I don’t think it’s scummy. Most others have done things that I have thought were scummy (from weird posts to failing to vote to poor justifications for votes) but they have often offset those later on in the game, giving me a reading of 😕 on them. Other than choie, I think \*\*Septimus \*\*and \*\*Guiri \*\*are town, and maybe **Hirka**. I thought \*\*PCM \*\*was town after being in a three-way tie for the lynch on D1 that he could have voted himself out of - but he’s been gone for so long that I don’t know what to think about him, so he is back to 😕 too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=40)