# Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase \[Newbie Friendly!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526 "2011-11-20T06:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/961 "2011-12-18T18:34:47Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Fuck. Thanks, **Guiri** , for being of such great service to town! > > Still, as town, we’re improving, losing only one instead of two during the night. I’m going to have a good hard look at the night kills to see if I can figure out what happened. Maybe a vig tried to take out a hiding Fubbles, that’d be kind of neat. Doesn’t seem that neat to me, IMHO. If he’s who he says he is (either Town or Scum Hider), the vig wasted a shot on him. ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/962 "2011-12-18T18:51:11Z")
just wanted to drop a line. been too busy with checking papers to even comment on my lynching. **guiri** , love your gut. to answer your question, i was experimenting on the boards the boards we play in whether keeping invisible was helpful or not. seems like it hasn’t made much of an impact so far. it may even be detrimental. easier to just read while not logged in. **Svejk** , i’ll assume your comment about my moral fiber was an odd joke. otherwise, you’re an odd joke. that said, go scum! ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/963 "2011-12-18T18:52:16Z")
Well it is only neat insofar as it could provide evidence that \*\*Fubbles \*\*is 1) a power role; 2) on our side. I think it is possible that such evidence might be provided but it is hardly a given. So you’re right, it might very well be a waste of vig action (if that is the reason we have only one nightkill). ---
**Author:** ![gnarlycharlie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/5f9b8f/32.png) [@gnarlycharlie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnarlycharlie)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/964 "2011-12-18T18:53:28Z")
NETA: apologies to my team. my play was poor due to RL issues. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/965 "2011-12-18T18:59:20Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Well it is only neat insofar as it could provide evidence that \*\*Fubbles \*\*is 1) a power role; 2) on our side. I think it is possible that such evidence might be provided but it is hardly a given. So you’re right, it might very well be a waste of vig action (if that is the reason we have only one nightkill). It might prove that he’s a power role, but I don’t see how it proves he’s on our–or perhaps I should say the Town’s–side. The scum team can have a Hider role too. (Not saying “our” side because I don’t know if you’re on the Town’s side or not. :D) ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/966 "2011-12-18T20:35:07Z")
To clarify: I am not saying that there is evidence as of now that would support **Fubbles** ’s claim that he is a town hider, but perhaps if a vig came forward claiming that he tried to kill **Fubbles** and failed, that might count as evidence towards that claim. I guess you are right, though, that even then, \*\*Fubbles \*\*could equally well be a scum hider. I don’t really see the rationale for such a role, though - what would scum need a hider for? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/967 "2011-12-18T20:57:01Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > To clarify: I am not saying that there is evidence as of now that would support **Fubbles** ’s claim that he is a town hider, but perhaps if a vig came forward claiming that he tried to kill **Fubbles** and failed, that might count as evidence towards that claim. I guess you are right, though, that even then, \*\*Fubbles \*\*could equally well be a scum hider. I don’t really see the rationale for such a role, though - what would scum need a hider for? To hide from a vig or detective, maybe? Or maybe, if one doesn’t believe his claim, he’s not actually a hider, but a separate survivor / PFK role. In doing some more research, I do see that a mafia/scum hider is fairly rare, so I could definitely be wrong and in fact a true hider is most likely to be Town. But it really does worry me that our power roles appear to be either dead or impotent since, having claimed, they’re now useful only to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/968 "2011-12-18T23:47:11Z")
A new day, only one death over night, ( **Guri** you’ll be missed!). I’ve been thinking overnight of who I find most suspicious, and honestly, the highest person on my list today is **septimus**. He was leading in votes on Day 2, then came out with a role claim of doctor, the one claim that would pretty much guarantee everyone to switch their votes to someone else. Then there is his posted role PM: > [@septimus](#): > > Role PM (town) > Warm, Healing Doctor (Town Doctor) > > You are incredibly appealing to potential sweethearts, with your handsome looks, wealth, commanding personality, and Italian accent. In a romance novel, that makes you a strong candidate to win the heroine’s affection. But watch out for impostors; there are scum out there who offer anything but true love. > > Special Power: > Each night, you can protect a player, keeping them from dying (if they would die). As has been mentioned previously, (and in yesterdays discussions starting around post [#814](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14571375&postcount=814)), he has "Role PM (town) on the role, while everyone else who has mentioned anything has “Role PM (mafia)” While this is a small little thing, I think it is very significant, since it is something a scum player might change while composing a fake role claim. Also, **septimus** still hasn’t responded about the controversy around this. **Vote septimus** ---
**Author:** ![fubbleskag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fubbleskag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fubbleskag)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/969 "2011-12-19T00:56:44Z")
it is strange that he’s not commented on it at all ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/970 "2011-12-19T01:01:04Z")
That is a strange change, so that’s a solid vote. FWIW I checked my PM and it does indeed say (mafia) on it, and I’m town-aligned (not that I can verify it, just want to provide another data point – I’m sure other townies will do the same for their own PMs). I don’t think this really sank in for me yesterday for whatever reason, but on consideration, it’s pretty alarming. I’m surprised we haven’t had a counter-claim by this point but I’m sure that drawing out the Doc is half the point of a false Doc claim. While it’s a small change, it also doesn’t sit right – only scum (or third party) players would have needed to change this. Barring an honest-to-goodness GM mistake – which I would hope to have been outed by now, hella bad as it is – I just don’t see the reason why anyone would need to modify their PM at all. The town justification for a dishonest claim is pretty thin to begin with, and even if I believed that, it seems extra alarming that this is in an area that would affect only alignment, not role. I do still plan to research other candidates tomorrow – if for nothing else to see what we can glean from our successful lynch before we get too much additional stuff to deal with – but I’m leaving this vote in the interest of getting **septimus** to step up here. I have to admit I can’t think of a good reason for this to be an honest error. **vote septimus** ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/971 "2011-12-19T01:09:28Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Only one death though. Why was toNight different from all other Nights? (Sounds like the Passover question…) Was the apparent vig / serial killer blocked or just absent? I was expecting a double-kill too, of course, but it’s not too surprising. It’s still pretty likely that we have a Doc or other roleblocker out there; perhaps the Vig (?) finally did target **septimus** , which would be interesting in light of the current controversy about his claim. It’s also possible that the Vig/SK and the scum team targeted the same person, the Vig intentionally decided not to kill anyone, or that the conditions for the extra kill somehow weren’t met. I’m guessing on a successful block because our Vig/SK was plenty trigger happy so far, there’s no real reason to hold off now when there’s a known scum identification to work off of – and for a newbie-friendly game to have complicated kill conditions seems unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/972 "2011-12-19T01:33:48Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > I’m surprised we haven’t had a counter-claim by this point but I’m sure that drawing out the Doc is half the point of a false Doc claim. While it’s a small change, it also doesn’t sit right – only scum (or third party) players would have needed to change this. I’ve been thinking about this, it is totally possible that we don’t actually have a doctor. We have a dead bodyguard, and depending on what his actual power was, it is possible that he was our protective role. It is also possible that the scum team was provided cover roles, and a doctor might have been one of them. If it was included after his real PM, I could see him adding and editing the subject line so that it looks like it was the whole message. I don’t know why we didn’t have a 2nd kill, but unless someone steps forward to claim a reason, I’m going to keep my vote where it currently is. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/973 "2011-12-19T01:46:26Z")
Would it not be a possibility that the moderator would include small differences like that in role PMs to prevent handshaking from occuring? Don’t some games have explicit rules against posting role PMs? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/974 "2011-12-19T01:58:55Z")
Does this not qualify as an answer? > [@septimus](#): > > (I’ve been home for more than a day, but stayed quiet because I worry Night-time discussion helps Scum. I guess I’m growing up: Despite Bangkok’s glitter I confined my pleasure to a few bookstores and Japanese restaurants and hurried home to wife and kids.) > > Yes, I did. To answer your earlier question I posted my exact role PM, using mouse click-drag-Control-C to copy it. > > Would **Trepa** have said so if **Orcenio** ’s death were a Mod-Kill? I was certainly hoping the Vig-kill experiment would be completed last Night so I could try to Protect a Power role toNight. (Though I’ve not yet identified any likely Town Powers other than myself. :smack: ) > > The way players suddenly piled on **Inner Stickler** yesterDay to avoid Lynching **Scathach** was certainly striking. > **Guiri** , let me ask you a question: Please rank, in order of likely Scumminess, the four votes on Inner: > > “Inner Stickler (4): Scathach, choie, Guiri, Švejk” ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/975 "2011-12-19T02:06:09Z")
So I know we have been told that color is irrelevant for this game, but this caught my eye: > [@Trepa\_Mayfield](#): > > (…) the second victim of the night proved to not actually be a victim at all! That is to say, not dead. That is to say, alive. Yay, life! This to me reads: a kill attempt was made and the attempt was foiled. What say y’all? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/976 "2011-12-19T03:27:53Z")
> [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](#): > > As has been mentioned previously, (and in yesterdays discussions starting around post [#814](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14571375&postcount=814)), he has "Role PM (town) on the role, while everyone else who has mentioned anything has “Role PM (mafia)” While this is a small little thing, I think it is very significant, since it is something a scum player might change while composing a fake role claim. > > Also, **septimus** still hasn’t responded about the controversy around this. > > Vote septimus\*\* (bleached) I for one (and apparently **fluiddruid** for two :)) have nothing against that vote, particularly this early, if for no other reason than perhaps, _perhaps_, it might draw our allegedly good alleged doctor out into participating and explaining whom he’s been protecting and, especially, to give his theories on who’s who and what’s what. The guy’s been treated as unlynchable and he _should_ be using his Town Cred for good. But he’s barely posted. (But as mentioned before, this is the precise problem I had with **Inner Stickler** in my last game, and it meant nothing; he was Town.) > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Would it not be a possibility that the moderator would include small differences like that in role PMs to prevent handshaking from occuring? Don’t some games have explicit rules against posting role PMs? Yes. In all the games I’ve read here on the SDMB, I don’t recall any game mod who didn’t alter role PMs to discourage handshaking. > [@special\_ed](#): > > Does this not qualify as an answer? Huh? What do you consider **septimus** ’s response an answer to? All he says there is that he copy/pasted his role PM exactly as sent to him. I mean… what do you _think_ a scum **septimus** would say? “Oh, yeah, I did change my PM text because I thought it related to my alignment, you got me”? > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > This to me reads: a kill attempt was made and the attempt was foiled. What say y’all? That’s an interesting interpretation, and I admit I haven’t been reading the color as carefully as I should’ve, mainly because **Trepa** has stated that the color’s inconsequential. But the wording here is suggestive. Then again, we really don’t have to do that much interpetation – this is the first Night without two kills, so _something_ different happened: either a blocked kill or a “healed” kill from our putative doctor, presumably. (Are there other possibilities?) The thing is, we don’t know whether that not-dead-victim was Town or Scum, so we don’t know if it was a vig or an SK who was thwarted in some way. Could one of the experienced players expound a bit on what the most likely scum roles are in this game? **gnarlycharlie** was vanilla (a Goon is vanilla, right?); assuming we have three (or, God forbid, four) evildoers left, what roles might they have? ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/977 "2011-12-19T03:58:55Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Could one of the experienced players expound a bit on what the most likely scum roles are in this game? **gnarlycharlie** was vanilla (a Goon is vanilla, right?); assuming we have three (or, God forbid, four) evildoers left, what roles might they have? I think there is a decent chance that they have a godfather, but that doesn’t really matter now, since we don’t have a cop anyway. They could possibly have a roleblocker. They could have an investigative role that identifies players roles. I doubt much other than that in what is supposed to be a fairly straightforward game. Regarding septimus, if any Town member has a PM where the subject line says something other than “Role PM(mafia)”, please let us know. I know Astral said his was different, but if no one else’s is, I am willing to believe he just made a mistake and was maybe looking at the role title rather the subject line. I know no one is confirmed until we hear it from the mod, but as I said before, Hirka earned a boatload of Town cred from me for his vote that put charlie in the lead. Ed also earned some Town cred, and fluiddruid a bit less. I haven’t gone back and looked and don’t really remember the circumstances of Scathach’s vote, so no read yet on that. I realize that other than a suspicious doctor and a peculiar playing hider, I seem to be the only one that finds Mahaloth suspicous, but he is still the player I am most suspicious of. I am trying to consider what gnarlycharlie’s voting record would tell us about Mahaloth possibly being scum. On both Day 1 and Day 2, gnarlycharlie was the last to vote. On Day 1 he voted against Mahaloth. It was the only vote against Mahaloth. On Day 2 he voted with Mahaloth against Ed. Neither he nor Mahaloth had gotten any real heat until Day 3. I really think his Day 1 vote looks like a one-off vote on a scum buddy. I am just not sure why he then voted with him on Day 2. For those that think I am scum, I really have no way to defend myself. What you have seen me post here are what my thoughts were. If the thoughts were too indefinite, I am sorry, but I am not really sure what I should have said instead. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/978 "2011-12-19T04:02:51Z")
Vote Record Updated Day 1 **Inner Stickler** - [del]GuiriEnEspana 81[/del] 82, choie 360 Choie - **GuiriEnEspana 82** , special ed 351 Silver Jan - [del]Svejk 119[/del] 329, **fisha** 302 Svejk - [del]Precambrianmollusc 136[/del] 279(or 310), [del]Mahaloth 159[/del] 235 Precambrianmollusc - [del] **Astral Rejection** 193[/del] 331, septimus 214, **wevets** 278, fubbleskag 359 fluiddruid - [del]choie 207[/del] 360, [del] **wevets** 219[/del] 278 fubbleskag - Mahaloth 235, [del] **Astral Rejection** 331[/del] 364 Mahaloth - [del]MentalGuy 254[/del] 323, **gnarlycharlie** 370 **wevets** - fluiddruid 266, Precambrianmollusc 279, **Astral Rejection** 364 **fisha** - Silver Jan 318, MentalGuy 323, **Inner Stickler** 357 Special Ed - Svejk 361 Day 2 **Inner Stickler** - Scathach 448, choie 524, **GuiriEnEspana** 558, Svejk 568 **GuiriEnEspana** - septimus 505 septimus - [del]GuiriEnEspana 510[/del] 538, [del] **Astral Rejection** 513[/del] 532, [del]MentalGuy 522[/del] 533, [del]fubbleskag 525[/del] 536, fubbleskag 560 Scathach - Svejk 520, **Inner Stickler** 544, Hirka T’Bawa 548, MentalGuy 549 Special Ed - Mahaloth 528, **gnarlycharlie** 574 fubbleskag - special ed 543 Day 3 choie - Mahaloth 645 Svejk - [del]special ed 646[/del], [del]Hirka T’Bawa 663[/del] 869, choie 809, [del]fluiddruid 860[/del] 872 Hirka T’Bawa - **gnarlycharlie** 702 fubbleskag - [del]Scathach 703[/del] 748, [del]fluiddruid 705[/del] 860, Silver Jan 818, [del]fubbleskag 834[/del] 847 Mahaloth - MentalGuy 723, [del]fubbleskag 730[/del], septimus 785 Scathach - [del]choie 736[/del] 792 **gnarlycharlie** - Scathach 748, **GuiriEnEspana** 784, special ed 862, Hirka T’Bawa 869, fluiddruid 872 special ed - Svejk 778 ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/979 "2011-12-19T04:28:22Z")
I just noticed that Day 2 shows two different votes for Svejk. He never actually unvoted Scathach when he voted for Inner Stickler. Trepa is apparently assuming the unvote when you revote. I won’t repost it now, but will correct it for later. After going back and looking at Scathach’s vote on gnarlycharlie, I am leaning Town on her. She was the first vote and does make a genuine case. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/980 "2011-12-19T05:28:28Z")
I’m very sorry to see **guiri** killed. My suspicions were going away, and I became almost sure he was Town the way he led the Lynch against **gnarly**. I did self-protect again last Night. I wavered between myself and **guiri** , but with Players voicing suspicion about me, I had both Scum and the Vig to worry about, so I chose to self-protect. The only way to prove absolutely that I am the Doctor is for the Vig to identify him- or herself and say I was targeted; but that would probably be a bad idea. In previous games, several Players (enough so we’re sure Townies are well represented) post messages like “I also agree the Vig and Doc should do that demonstration”; unfortunately that didn’t happen the first Day I proposed such an experiment. I stand ready to do it again, but my Power is a waste if I self-Protect every Night. **guiri** is so valuable a scum-hunter that I should have Protected him last Night instead of saving self … especially if I’m to be Lynched anyway. I think I would have Protected him, if not for a slight lingering doubt. ☹ As to why my PM has an oddity, I don’t know what to say. Perhaps **Trepa** changed the format to prevent handshaking. All I know is I copied my PM exactly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=50)