# Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase \[Newbie Friendly!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526 "2011-11-20T06:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 69
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1361 "2012-01-06T23:18:57Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I do have to agree with **Scathach** above that we _have_ been assuming the existence of a Godfather, perhaps wrongly since we really don’t know that to be the case. Personally I “like” the idea of a Godfather being one of the two **Hirka** -cleared candidates only because it pleases my sense of drama/mystery. Ditto if **septimus** turns out to be Scum. I know it’s not in my own (or indeed the rest of Town’s) best interests, but damn it, I loves me some dramatic plot twists. It’s bothering me how blithely everyone seems to be accepting the notion that a. There is a Godfather b. It must be one of the investigated players c. It’s our highest priority. I don’t necessarily agree with either of those things - and assuming 2 scum left, then one of the uninvestigated players MUST be scum, possibly 2, whereas 1 of the investigated players MAY be scum. So as far I’m concerned, septimus’s insistence that we have to start lynching the people Hirka investigated as town is just another black mark against him. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1362 "2012-01-06T23:29:23Z")
> [@choie](#): > > I can’t get rid of that damn _idee fixe_ that there’s some significance to be found in the **Inner** vote, not to mention the **Silver Jan** vote as well. I continue to believe that at least one scum would’ve voted for **Inner** , and I also believe one scum would’ve voted for **Silver Jan**. What about the gnarlycharlie vote? Slightly beating a dead horse here, I thought that there was likely to be at least one scum bussing gnarly for town cred. Now of those only special ed and me are still alive. I still find ed suspicious for that reason (and previously for voting fubbles but I will note that (as ed pointed out) I was wrong on the fubbleskag vote being “too easy” because some of fubbles more unusual play choices hadn’t happened yet). It may be a preconceived notion though, because I don’t think there were people bussing Silver Jan largely because Svejk has come across townie to me. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1363 "2012-01-06T23:45:35Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > It’s bothering me how blithely everyone seems to be accepting the notion that > a. There is a Godfather > b. It must be one of the investigated players > c. It’s our highest priority. > > I don’t necessarily agree with either of those things - and assuming 2 scum left, then one of the uninvestigated players MUST be scum, possibly 2, whereas 1 of the investigated players MAY be scum. > > So as far I’m concerned, septimus’s insistence that we have to start lynching the people Hirka investigated as town is just another black mark against him. Not everyone is accepting this. In fact, only spetimus and choie are even discussing it as a possibility (my one comment to Mahaloth excepted). Though, even if Townie, your defensive is understandable, your exaggeration is somewhat surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1364 "2012-01-06T23:53:04Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Not everyone is accepting this. In fact, only spetimus and choie are even discussing it as a possibility (my one comment to Mahaloth excepted). No, but people aren’t questioning it. (Well choie was actually, but only just now). And if things like > [@septimus](#): > > Meanwhile, it seems interesting that the only votes on record are by\*\* the Godfather candidates\*\*. Let me point out again that toMorrow we’ll be at Lynch-or-Lose **even if the Godfather is the only remaining Scum**. > > There could well be **a second Scum with the Godfather,** presumably Special Ed or Svejk (or, for completeness, choie or septimus). If there is, we’ll know more by looking at toDay’s voting and toNight’s actions. \*\*But identifying the Godfather is highest priority right now. > \*\* (my highlights) keep going past without being at least questioned, then they just start being automatically accepted. Now if septimus is both the doctor and absolutely correct, then I’ll feel pretty damn stupid, but nevertheless all his certainty is not warranted. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1365 "2012-01-06T23:53:57Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > What about the gnarlycharlie vote? > > Slightly beating a dead horse here, I thought that there was likely to be at least one scum bussing gnarly for town cred. Now of those only special ed and me are still alive. I still find ed suspicious for that reason (and previously for voting fubbles but I will note that (as ed pointed out) I was wrong on the fubbleskag vote being “too easy” because some of fubbles more unusual play choices hadn’t happened yet). > > It may be a preconceived notion though, because I don’t think there were people bussing Silver Jan largely because Svejk has come across townie to me. That does sound like confirmation bias to me, doesn’t it? gnarly must have been bussed and only you and I remain out of his voters, but Silver Jan wasn’t bussed even though choie and Svejk were voting for her. And in looking at post 1282 which has a summary of those votes, I actually put gnarly into a tie for the lead with Mahaloth while your vote was a one-off at the time with both fubbles and Svejk ahead of gnarly when you cast your vote. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1366 "2012-01-06T23:56:43Z")
[oog] You know, I’d love to try playing Mafia over IM sometime - I always want to get into big discussions while I’m online but message board posting is slow. [/oog] ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2012, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1367 "2012-01-06T23:57:40Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > No, but people aren’t questioning it. (Well choie was actually, but only just now). And if things like That’s quite a different thing. 2 people are talking about it, and 1 with much more certainty than he should. That’s hardly everyone endorsing it as fact ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1368 "2012-01-07T00:02:10Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > That does sound like confirmation bias to me, doesn’t it? > > gnarly must have been bussed and only you and I remain out of his voters, but Silver Jan wasn’t bussed even though choie and Svejk were voting for her. > > And in looking at post 1282 which has a summary of those votes, I actually put gnarly into a tie for the lead with Mahaloth while your vote was a one-off at the time with both fubbles and Svejk ahead of gnarly when you cast your vote. You’re not wrong. The difference is that I’ve had a town lean on Svejk ever since the vote switch for the reasons I’ve stated before (knowing I’m town his switch makes no sense as scum). It’s not very fair, but apart from septimus, most of my suspects at this stage are driven mainly by eliminating those I think are town and going from there. (also, my vote was the bandwagon-starter on gnarly and it was early enough in Day that I don’t think things like who-is-lynch-leader is so very important) ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1369 "2012-01-07T00:03:18Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > That’s quite a different thing. 2 people are talking about it, and 1 with much more certainty than he should. That’s hardly everyone endorsing it as fact I said people were accepting it - not that they were evangelising it. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1370 "2012-01-07T00:19:46Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > You’re not wrong. The difference is that I’ve had a town lean on Svejk ever since the vote switch for the reasons I’ve stated before (knowing I’m town his switch makes no sense as scum). It’s not very fair, but apart from septimus, most of my suspects at this stage are driven mainly by eliminating those I think are town and going from there. > > (also, my vote was the bandwagon-starter on gnarly and it was early enough in Day that I don’t think things like who-is-lynch-leader is so very important) Alternatively, it was early enough in the Day that you didn’t think it would gain traction. And your case against gnarly (in post 745) containted this assessment > [@](#): > > A lot of it smacks to me as flying under the radar, not sticking his neck out type stuff. I’m aware that it’s quite like what made me wrongly think Inner was scum, but the fact remains that shying the limelight is often a scum tactic. > > I’m going to reread fubbleskag (who’s weird vote for septimus is still striking me as suspicious) and decide whether or not to move my vote. after quoting some of his posts. I remember being swayed not by that, but by guiri’s case summarized by: > [@](#): > > - His D1 one-off vote and subsequent explanation > - His D2 vote, reasoning, and subsequent explanation > - His vote on Hirka doesn’t read right given his suspicions of SpecialEd in post 784. Followed by in post 800 by gnarly and 806 by guiri With the vote still Mahloth 3, Svejk 3, and gnarly 2, I unvoted Svejk and pushed gnarly into a tie simulataneously with fluid’s vote for Svejk, creating a 3 way tie which Hirka broke by unvoting Svejk and voting gnarly. Fluid then followed suit. If you re-read the chaos, you’ll see I could have directed the voting almost anyway. I certainly could have gotten Svejk lynched, as Hirka and fubbles were both leaning that way. If you recall those early days at all, I think you’ll doubt that Svejk and I are likely to have known we were on the same team (Scum-Scum as opposed to S-T, T-S, or T-T) with the ferocity we went after each other (WiFoM, I know) PS, post 850 and 851 by guiri rasie intersting questions about a currently alive players (1 cop cleared) ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1371 "2012-01-07T00:21:42Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > I said people were accepting it - not that they were evangelising it. hehehe, OK, I’ll back away from a war of semantics. As long as you concede you were exaggerating 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1372 "2012-01-07T00:22:55Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Now, correct me if I"m wrong, but did we ever get any investigative results saying he is Town? If we did and I missed them, I do apologize. Mind you, I don’t like the way you phrased this. It’s a bit smudgy. Either you didn’t actually bother to go back and check who Hirka investigated, or you just want us all to go “You know, he’s right, special ed hasn’t been investigated”. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1373 "2012-01-07T00:25:48Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > Mind you, I don’t like the way you phrased this. It’s a bit smudgy. Either you didn’t actually bother to go back and check who Hirka investigated, or you just want us all to go “You know, he’s right, special ed hasn’t been investigated”. EGAD! He must be a godfather!! ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1374 "2012-01-07T00:34:03Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > As long as you concede you were exaggerating 😉 Bah! > [@special\_ed](#): > > And your case against gnarly (in post 745) containted this assessment after quoting some of his posts. > > I remember being swayed not by that, but by guiri’s case summarized by: > in post 784. Followed by in post 800 by gnarly and 806 by guiri ☹ I was quite proud of myself. It’s the first time I made a case that got scum lynched. Or so I thought. > [@special\_ed](#): > > PS, post 850 and 851 by guiri rasie intersting questions about a currently alive players (1 cop cleared) Post 850: > [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > @ Mahaloth, Choie and Special Ed have one vote each. Fubbles has two. You’ve made your preference clear, if you’re not going to vote Svejk, why not double up on Special Ed or push Fubbles into the lead? Or even vote Gnarly? > > Similar question to Gnarly: Mahaloth and Special Ed were your primary suspects, you’ve made your suspicion of Hirka clear but now you’ve a chance to lynch Mahaloth or push Special Ed closer to the lead, why keep the one off? In fact shows that Gnarly was reluctant to vote Maholoth or Special Ed. So I’m still fine with my list 1. Septimus 2. Special Ed 3. Mahaloth Still pretty much in that order - Occams razor is really the only thing keeping Ed above Mahaloth in the list. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1375 "2012-01-07T02:19:34Z")
I’ve taken the time to gather most of the postings by **Scathach**. This post will therefore be quite long – but just quotes with little comment. This should include most of scathach’s posts except the most recent, as well as a few posts by svejk and choie. > [@Scathach](#): > > Confirming! (Sorry I’m late, just back after being away for a weekend) > > Oy, this is “the thrill of the chase” - gonna take more than a pint! > > (like, 2 pints at least ;)) > [@Scathach](#): > > Eh, I think he has the post that has stood out as the most suspicious to me so far? I mean it’s hardly definitive. > [@Scathach](#): > > Because sweeping in, picking one post and going “Aha! Here is scum!” has yet to work out for me unfortunately. > > I don’t know enough about game balance to do much speculating about mechanics, so the only thing I can do is comment on people’s posts. > [@Scathach](#): > > Yeah, I think this is a lot of the problem with talking on D1. It usually ends up as lynching the loud. > > I always end up hugely overthinking everything I say (and that’s not just D1, it’s the whole game). Like, in different games, I’ve gotten heat for voting too early, for voting too late, for “indecisive” language, for everything really. I suppose the thing to do is just not take any of it too seriously and talk away anyway (it’s only a game right:) ) But damned if it’s not hard to get defensive and aggrieved when someone is calling you scummy when you’re town. > > It’s a lot easier a day or two in, where you at least begin to find people actually scummy or not. D1 I never really have a suspect, so I end up doing a crappy vote and rightfully getting called for it. ☹ > [@Scathach](#): > > Gah! > > Look, I’ve tried vote early vote often, I’ve tried pick a bandwagon, now I’m trying to just comment on posts that stick out to me. > > I don’t find Mahaloth hugely scummy, especially since his later clarification posts. But I really really didn’t find fubbleskag’s post scummy, so I posted to disagree with him. That’s pretty much it. > > It’s either that or just not post at all, and that’s not even anti town or anti scum, it’s anti game. She seems more concerned with defending herself, than advancing her own scum cases. > [@Scathach](#): > > Oh crap, sorry you guys. I misread when EOD was and didn’t get a vote in. ☹ > [@Scathach](#): > > \*\* vote Inner Stickler \*\* > > He’s posted loads, but the vast majority of it is basic mafia strategy to help the people asking questions. Which is very good scum strategy because he gets to be both loud and helpful without much risk. > > Even his vote managed not to actually say anything too controversial, only repeating cases against other players. She joins the bandwagon against Idle. This is her first major post of the game. > [@Scathach](#): > > \*\* > Will Hirka T’Bawa be mod-killed if he continues not to post > \*\* **Švejk** votes for Scathach: > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Darn, should not have promised that. Now I have to make up my mind. It’s difficult, since as I said I want to vote for people on the basis of things they’ve said that somehow stuck out, but on D2 so far, other than myself, there’s really only been seven people that have actually contributed. Among the contributors I count **Fubbles, Guiri, Astral Rejection, Choie, Septimus, Mahaloth, and Ed** - and some of those only barely. Others have posted but their contributions have often been meager - **Scathach** , for instance, shoots of three quick posts (##447-9) including an easy vote against **Inner Stickler** but has not been back; **Stickler himself only posted twice during D2 (once to ask about _Mountain Grazing Time_) and PreCambrian**, perhaps basking in the fact that his almost-lynch has made other people think he is town, added a quick me-too when D2 began, and joked about when **choie** said ‘can’t we return to ritualistic night-killing’. **GnarlyCharlie** posted twice, but nothing very substantive there either. Other’s have chimed in to apologize for not posting at all, people like **SilverJan** , **Hirka** and **MentalGuy**. > > Add \*\*Orcenio \*\*to that list, and there’s nine people right there who have not contributed on D2. Many of them have done little on D1 as well. There seems to be plenty of room for scum to hide in that group, since it is so large (who would notice a tenth person in that group?). In fact, with three townies dead, there is only 17 people left in the game so that makes this group of nine an absolute majority. If it was only three people or four, I would think that the group would be too small for scum to be hiding in it, it would simply be to obvious, and with (perhaps) a vig killing off lurkers, the risk for scum would be too big - but with a group of 9, the risk for lurking non-contributing scum is much smaller. If there’s five scum, and three are in the group of nine non-contributors, that would give 1/3 scum for that group as opposed to 1/3.5 in the other group of seven contributors (this group does not include myself; for myself, there’s a 0/1 scum ratio). > > Of course, there may not be five scum so I don’t want to just base my vote on those differential ratios. Still, in a group of nine non-contributors, not all can hide behind RL, and as I said, the group is large enough for plenty of scum to hide in comfortably. I think FluidDruid is particularly egregious, a lurker claiming that lurkers should be pursued - but it’s somehow to obvious for me to think it warrants a vote. **Scathach** , on the other hand, I do suspect and will vote for > > [ul] > [li]first she ‘[misreads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14523993#post14523993)’ when EOD is on D1, failing to get in a vote. That raised my eyebrow :dubious: [/li][li]then on D2 she really quickly gets a [vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14533146&postcount=448)in for **Inner Stickler**. Why the rush? [/li][li]she contributes nothing to analysis of the events that just transpired 17 posts earlier, the deaths of \*\*Gregorio \*\*and **Wevets**. Of course, if you already know everything that happened during the night because you are scum, you’d better shut up because you might betray yourself, and there’s no point in asking questions :rolleyes:[/li][li]another quick post is to ask about whether [Hirka T’Bawa](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14533152&postcount=449) is going to be mod-killed. Getting the mod to do your dirty work for you eh? You disgust me! :mad:[/li][li]finally, the case against \*\*Stickler \*\*is razor thin and not elaborate. Essentially it boils down to saying that he hides in plain sight, but D2 at that point was still young, it could be said of others, and of yourself in particular.[/li][/ul] > > In sum: > > **[Bleach]vote Scathach[/Bleach]** > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > Two more things that I would like to point out about **Scathach** : > > 1. Compare this D1 post: > to this D2 post (bolding mine): > > There seems to be some contradiction here. Is it good or bad strategy? Is it a bad thing to lynch the loud, or should they be voted for? > > 1. This may be overanalysis, but when \*\*Scathach \*\*actually decided during D1 to go over her thoughts with regard to some of the players (which does not lead to a vote, but still), her method is to look at the people that have already been voted for - as if those are the only people to choose from! Perhaps if you want to just pile-on, you look through the votes that have already been cast, and see where you can hitch your wagon most easily… > [@Scathach](#): > > In order: > -Yeah I missed EOD, can’t defend myself from that one, it is what it is. > -Why do you think I might have rushed to get a vote in after missing EOD the Day before? > -What analysis is there to do? Speculate on whether there’s a Vig or an SK? What good does that possibly do? > -Why are you so certain Hirka is town? > > As for Inner Stickler, I was reading over people’s Day 1 posts and his stuck out to me the most, so I voted. Another post devoted to self-defense. (And again, Svejk’s work is outstanding.) So scathach has provided essentially no scum-hunting help, except against Stickler. Most of her posts have been devoted to self-defense. Sounds like a Scum tell. But is it really? I can sympathize with scathach since I fall under suspicion for similar reasons essentially every game that I’m Town including this one! Svejk does make a convincing case though, especially as an uncoached rookie. Indeed maybe my “Scum would never let their rookie be so brilliant” meme has gone wrong, and **Svejk** is, after all, the Scum mastermind. > [@Scathach](#): > > Woah, didn’t see the massive bandwagon coming when I signed off last night :o > > Ok, I know I haven’t been very active this week, incredibly busy at work culminating in getting sick on Wednesday and taking Thursday off sick (hence why I sounded so cranky in defending myself when I posted yesterday). > > I haven’t done a big Wall-of-Words on Inner because I was in a rush when I posted, knew I’d be busy and wanted to make absolutely certain I’d have a a vote in this time. But really, there isn’t much to say on why I voted for him, when I read over all his posts (I was reading through the posts of everyone I didn’t have a town lean on in order) it just really stood out to me that he’d posted an awful lot of help and snuggling and that was about it, even his vote was as noncontroversial as possible. > > Now, lynching me isn’t the absolute worst **role claim** …Vanilla Townie 🙂 So at least you won’t lose a power role over this. > > I stand by my vote on Inner. But I also don’t like Hirka’s reasons for voting me. Just going to comment on a few parts of his post. (in spoilers for size) > > I had already said that I didn’t have any good cases so I hated chiming in with me too on other’s cases. However, people said that it’s worth agreeing or disagreeing or at least getting your thoughts out there so I did. Those posts were not “making cases” - they were infodumps of what I thought. > > My forgetting when EOD was is more scummy than you not posting for the whole day? > > I said I would have voted for PCM (who you’ll note, I said I had a scum lean on earlier in the day). I also said that I now thought PCM was probably town. So I certainly wasn’t claiming I would have saved a town player. > > I really don’t understand why people think me posting “Oh shucks, two more town down. Wonder if we have a Vig or SK” would have been so super townie but fair enough. I don’t really post at night either if there’s no strategy talk allowed because I think it’s pointless. As for my vote on Inner, fine it’s more of a gut feeling than anything else. YMMV and obviously does. > > Fair enough really, I should have said mod nudge. But I was mildly grumpy that I was getting a lot of crap for missing EOD when you’d missed the whole thing. > > This is completely unfair. I posted that at very near the beginning of Day 1, and you’re asking me why I voted someone differently on Day 2? Because I subsequently found someone more suspicious, I mean, how is this even a question? > > Prepare to be disappointed. 😛 > [@Scathach](#): > > Ok, this is a bit meta, but when I get lynched I think it’s worth looking at the people who defended me. The only people (except for me) that know I’m town right now are scum. So it’s very easy to give yourself town credit by defending a lynch candidate that you know is going to flip town. (In the Small Town game over on Idlemafia, when I was lynched and got spoiled, I was really surprised to find that all the people I thought were super townie because they’d been defending me turned out to be scum.) > > So, in particular, Guiri, who’s doing some astonishing bending over backwards to avoid voting for me even though he’s already said he finds me suspicious. And possibly, although less so, choie, even though she seems really townie to me. (but I’m really bad at this game so that’s practically a scum tell :D) > > Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk In this post she points FOS at guiri and choie. guiri was Town of course, and choie probably too. Bad luck? Or inside info? > [@Scathach](#): > > Also, I’m just not understanding Guiri in this game. I’ve played with him before (wahey) and he’s always found me scummy, so it’s not that. I’m also ok with his prosecution lawyer type gameplay (I shall sprinkle all my posts with PROBING QUESTIONS). > > What I still find odd is his vote for Inner. He’s found me suspicious since the beginning of the game, so why would he vote Inner for voting me? But whatever I way I read it, I can’t come up with a scum reason for him doing so. Like, > > If he’s town: He voted for Inner because despite finding me suspicious, he found Inners vote on me more suspicious due to it’s lack of backup. (But why would he find someone suspicious for voting for someone he finds suspicious?) > If he’s scum: He voted for Inner because he thought I’d be lynched, knew I’d flip town and so didn’t want to be on my bandwagon (not expecting Svejk’s vote change). But that makes no sense because his was the tying vote, so either way he’d be on a town bandwagon > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > **Scathach** , I think you are totally giving yourself away as scum by making a tie here for no good reason. > [@Scathach](#): > > Lols, bad town maybe, but not scum. > > Honestly, I don’t know which one to back, so I’d prefer to see a chance of either of them being lynched, given that at least that way there’s a 50% chance of lynching scum tonight. > [@choie](#): > > Huh. Well, cancel my last post. **Scathach** is purposely creating a tie because she prefers a random coin toss? That’s B.S. right there. > > Okay, if I’m lynched (as it’s almost certain I will be) this is definitely useful info for Town. You’ll have uncovered two scum team members in a fell swoop. At least my death won’t be in vain. > > “_Earn… this…!_” > [@Scathach](#): > > My eyes cannot roll enough. > > Can I just suggest that if we do have a Vig that they kill me tonight so we don’t waste all of tomorrow? > [@Scathach](#): > > [bleach]\*\* unvote choie \*\*[/bleach] > > You know what, if ye’re so certain, go for it. She saves choie!! > [@Scathach](#): > > F5…F5 > [@Scathach](#): > > If Jan flips town, I think the rest of us will promptly vote you. And now I have a sinking feeling that you’re scum preparing the excuses already ☹ > > If day wasn’t over I’d make it a tie again. Equivocating like this, while she’s Scum? Great acting? > [@Scathach](#): > > phew. > [@Scathach](#): > > I don’t think you should take suggestions at all really. If scum know what you’re going to do they can work to prevent it - we know they have power roles too. > [@Scathach](#): > > _Waddles into thread - full of turkey and hungover_ > > Just two things > [ol] > > [li]I think it’d more productive to look for scum in the gnarlycharlie voters than the Inner voters (and bonus! that means you can still be suspcious of me either way;)) Voting for town isn’t really a scum tell, it can just as well mean people are wrong. Scum will more than likely try to bus one of their own once they know they can’t be saved.[/li][li]Giving people “townie cred” for voting me is a little on the nose until you’ve actually seen which way I flip (re your Hirka paragraph)[/li][/ol] > [@Scathach](#): > > Given that the Inner lynch sprung up while I was lynch leader, I’d say that it’s unlikely there’s many scum on it. Why lynch one town to save another (assuming I’m town obviously, which I have the luxury of but you don’t) > > You’ve said several times now that I’m being defensive. Nothing in my previous post was defending myself! I said I was more suspicious of people voting gnarlycharlie - (I’ve already given my reasoning for that yesterDay) and I disagreed with giving Hirka a town lean. That was all. > [@Scathach](#): > > Agreed. I’m willing to consider you confirmed town. > > Her late vote for gnarlycharlie after it was certain he’d be lynched is the most suspicious thing about her for me. Lean scum > Lean town/3rd party. Surely as scum he’d try to lay a bit lower. Honestly I don’t know though. > Slight scum lean, as I’ve said before, due to the gnarlycharlie vote and attributing reasoning for his votes to Astral. > Neutral tbh. I agree I’d like to hear a bit more from him. > Townish to me so far. > Slight town, since vanilla townies are the most likely to get bored and wander off. Irrelevant though, since Trepa has said he’ll be modkilled if he doesn’t come back soon. > I keep flip flopping on septimus. Claimed doc with no counterclaim. But the role pm(town) business does seem slightly odd. And I could totally see how he would have assumed mafia meant alignment and changed it for a role claim. Really, I don’t know. > Slight lean scum - he was voted in a one off by gnarlycharlie, and then voted gnarlycharlie himself a Day later. > > Lean town. I’ve explained my reasoning on that enough times now that I’m not going to bother recapping. > [@Scathach](#): > > Well, not really. (Even though I am :)) > > Fubbles seems to have died because he was hiding behind Mental Guy. So there was still only 1 night kill. > [@Scathach](#): > > \*\*Trepa - is there a reason we’re not getting a role reveal for PCM? \*\* > [@Scathach](#): > > True, but it seems a disadvantage to town only. Scum will already know if he was or wasn’t town (although not if he was third party). Whereas not knowing whether or not he was town is crucial for us in order to look at his votes. > > Also, a certain amount of self interest would make me very happy to find out if he’s the serial killer. > > Is non reveal of modkilled players usual? I know that in Mystery Mafia, the only other game I played in with a modkill, the role was revealed. > [@Scathach](#): > > Hot diggety. > > I’m willing to believe the claim for the moment, and since fluiddruid or special ed were my two main candidates, I’m more than happy to > > \*\* vote fluiddruid \*\* > [@Scathach](#): > > Actually it was the thing that made me keep playing mafia :D. I’d read along with a few games before, but the first time I ever played and the creeping paranoia that builds up where the most completely tinfoil hat ridiculous conspiracy theories make ABSOLUTE SENSE - well, it got me hooked 🙂 > > I will also agree that of the role claims so far, I find septimus’s the most suspect. > [@Scathach](#): > > One of the things that has prevented me voting Septimus is the fact that you survived. It does imply that scum didn’t want to bet on who the doctor would protect and so instead went for someone different (a lot of people stated yesterDay and Night that they had a town lean on MentalGuy so scum knew he would be a difficult lynch). If scum knew there was no doctor, then why not nightkill you, safe in the knowledge there’s no protection. > [@Scathach](#): > > Yeah I keep going back on forth on it, but at the moment I’d be reluctant to vote him. > > Mind you, that’s assuming that PCM was the SK and only the scum kill went through. My conclusion: She points FOS at people who are Townie, spends much effort defending herself. Saving choie could have been a calculated gamble – after all it’s 50% to give the same result. I don’t see any blatant tells, but on balance, she seems likely to be scum. (But I’m still suspicious of Mahaloth, partly for his lack of participation. If mahaloth is Scum, who is his partner? Svejk?) It is not mandatory to Lynch one of the “Godfather candidates” toDay. But even if we Lynch other than this pair and catch Scum, we’ll still be at Lynch or Lose toMorrow, and I’m still not sure which of {scathach, mahaloth} is the “cleared” Godfather and which the true Vanilla. Yes, it isn’t certain one of these two is Godfather, but I find both of them suspicious ( :smack: ) so at this point would be quite surprised if the Godfather isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1376 "2012-01-07T18:40:33Z")
Hi everyone. I’m still not back. But I’ve carved out a little bit of time to post. Not that I have much to say - I find things far to confusing at this point to really make very definite statements. Either way, FWIW, I am leaning towards thinking that with 4 town power claims already being confirmed, and one scum power claim also confirmed, I actually find it unlikely that there are still a godfather and two town powers out-and-about. A less power-heavy game with more vanilla seems much more newb-friendly and thus more likely. This means a few things to me 1. No godfather - so those players that \*\*HTB \*\*confirmed are most likely actually confirmed - so that’s \*\*Scathach \*\*and **Mahaloth**. 2. At least one of \*\*Septimus’s \*\*and \*\*Choie’s \*\*claims is false. So assuming four scum and an SK as over against 15 town, and assuming that \*\*FSK \*\*was right about \*\*PCM \*\*being the SK, that leaves two vanilla scum amongst **Choie** , **Ed** , and **Septimus**. Given these assumptions, I am more inclined to let \*\*Choie \*\*off the hook, I guess, although I am not completely convinced that her claim is legit. On the whole, she’s seemed more town than **Septimus**. I’d be wholly prepared to accept finding out that she’s been pulling the wool over our collective eyes by carefully building up her roleblocker claim, leaving bread crumbs, agonizing over what to do. In particular, I have found her insistence that we tell her what to do and share our info with her suspicious. Explaining that she was on her own because helping her in public would be helping scum just as much, and would thus nullify the use of her power, has not helped - she’s still all woe-is-me. Then there was her insistence that she was the only one mistrusting **Septimus** , and her belief that I find her ‘despicable’, when both are clearly false. Neither really matter, but in both cases I have thought that she sows confusion by willfully stating falsehoods. But then again, a similar litany of complaints may be wrought on the basis of **Septimus’s** playing, and he’s been much less active than **Choie** , keeping his head down, which I guess makes me incline towards finding his claim less likely legit than **Choie’s** Clearly I am still on the fence about whose claim I find the least trustworthy. It would take some more time, going over the posts that have accumulated in the past couple of Days more carefully to come up with a more proper assessment. So, seeing as 1. I am still unresolved on whether **Choie** , or **Septimus,** or both are not to be trusted, and won’t have time to figure out which one it is before EoD 2. the loss of misslynching anyone of them is higher than the loss of misslynching a vanilla townie like **Special Ed** 3. there is already a vote in for **Ed** , which with about 24 hours to go and the game going as slowly as it is can be substantial 4. I’ve found \*\*Ed’s \*\*play on the whole to have been fairly useless to town, something that I’ve pointed out on several occasions and which has resulted in me voting for \*\*Ed \*\*twice (I believe) I am more than happy to believe that \*\*Ed \*\*is scum and I will therefore **vote Special Ed** ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1377 "2012-01-07T21:29:03Z")
> [@Svejk\_1](#): > > 1. the loss of misslynching anyone of them is higher than the loss of misslynching a vanilla townie like **Special Ed** :dubious: Is this just poor phrasing? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1378 "2012-01-07T21:55:21Z")
> [@Scathach](#): > > :dubious: > > Is this just poor phrasing? not only that, but how many of us are still alive? Svejk Choie Septimus mahaloth Scathcah Special Ed Did I forget someone? Because that’s 6. We’re all out of lurkers and non-posters, right? If there are 2 Scum, we’re at lynch or lose. So a mislynch of anyone is a bad move. If the Scum succeed in killing, then we’re finished. Now, if PCM was Scum, then this isn’t lynch or lose, but that’s probably not a risk we should be taking at this point. I’m quite certain that the scum know this. And, again, here’s an accusation I cannot argue against. I’m useless. I could make the same case against Svejk. I 've found his play to be useless and even voted for him a couple of times. However, I’m aware that we’re in a dangerous spot. So I’m not willing to just cast a vote. And, as I’ve hinted at before, even with the worry that we have a godfather, I’m unwilling to lynch Mahaloth or Scathach toDay, because it’s more likely that there is a Scum who isn’t a godfather still in the game (it could be that PCM was one of 4 Scum and Mahaloth or Scathach are a godfather, but even in that case, we needn’t worry about it toDay) I’ve been waiting for a Scum to come in an make an opportunistic vote, and I think this one was it. Not sure if I can convince anyone of that, but I’m willing to discuss it **Vote: Svejk** ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1379 "2012-01-07T23:27:01Z")
We’ve had a slip ! 😛 This ending has become almost delicious. I’ve been trying to rank the seven of you in order of probable scumminess. I had mahaloth at the top, special ed, scathach and Svejk all roughly tied at neutral, and have been treating choie as cleared Townie. My new rankings, in order of Scumminess, are: - Svejk. Plays a brilliant role as Townie, allegedly a rookie, posts long pro-Town-seeming analyses (though choie and others have expressed suspicion). Except for the 3rd vote on Silver Jan, her voting record is unpersuasive. I’m beginning to think choie was right about the Svejk/scathach dichotomy, but on reread it is still not scathach who I find suspicious. - mahaloth. His contributions are few; his comments and voting record anti-Town. - special ed. Some of his comments seem peculiar, hence anti-Town. Yet both voting record and comments are strongly pro-Town. - scathach. As Svejk showed, scathach’s play early in the game was anti-Town. Since then scathach’s votes have been very good. I can’t happily take up an anti-Scathach case so similar to cases used incorrectly against me. - choie. Strong Town read. Her claim would be weird if untrue. > [@Svejk\_1](#): > > This means a few things to me > > 1. No godfather - so those players that \*\*HTB \*\*confirmed are most likely actually confirmed - so that’s \*\*Scathach \*\*and **Mahaloth**. > 2. At least one of \*\*Septimus’s \*\*and \*\*Choie’s \*\*claims is false. > > I am more than happy to believe that \*\*Ed \*\*is scum “I am more than happy to believe.” This is almost like a subjunctive mood. Belief follows from evidence, thought, probabilities. You don’t believe something to make yourself happy. Unless the “belief” is pretence, with the sentence almost a subjunctive. “I am happy to vote Ed” or “I’m inclined to believe Ed is scum” would be normal language, but _“I am more than happy to believe”_ is, in English, the diction one adopts for something you don’t believe, but want to “believe” or that it would make you “happy to believe” it for the purpose of a post in a Mafia game. I caught this, because I made a similar slip as Godfather in the D’en’dee game, using subjunctive mood, waited in fear, but no one spotted it. **Vote: Švejk** I’m pretty confident about this now. I want his points (1) and (2) remembered when he flips Scum. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1380 "2012-01-08T01:08:27Z")
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