# Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase \[Newbie Friendly!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526 "2011-11-20T06:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 70
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1381 "2012-01-08T01:09:58Z")
Laso, I’m not sure what to make of spetimus joining my case, as I had him and Svejk as the final 2 Scum. But, as always, I’m trying to keep in mind that PCM may have been Scum, and the whole godfather thing… bah! ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1382 "2012-01-08T01:13:36Z")
Well I must say this is a howdydoo. **septimus** kvetching about _subjunctive mood_ when he balked at my parsing his use of “none” versus “neither”? As long as we’re putting things on record, I want the record to reflect that _I_ am not the most nitpicky grammarian in our ragged little band. 😃 But seriously, I would agree that it could be a tell, except that I’m not 100% certain that **Svejk** is a native English speaker. He lists himself as Dutch (though living in Canada). So I’d be wary of putting too much emphasis on his syntax. (Then again, even if that’s true, his English is way better than most native speakers, so who the heck knows!) However. I _do_ retain my mistrust of **Svejk** , and here’s why: - the fact that he’s been keeping himself on radio silence for nearly a week, popping up with just one day left until EOD. Sure, he’s busy. We’re all busy. At this point we need all hands on deck, and those who remain below are scurvy-ridden stragglers weighing our ship down rather than fighting the tempest-toss’d sea with the rest of us. (Sorry for beating the metaphor into the ground…) - the fact that he popped up not long after I noted his being the only link among both the **Inner** voters and the **Silver Jan** voters, aside from me. I simply find it hard to believe that not a single scum voted either to bus **Silver Jan** or mislynch **Inner Stickler** ; process of elimination points right at **Svejk**. - Also I think he’s been mischaracterizing my posts as “lies” when, for example, my saying that “he finds me despicable” was rather clearly hyperbole humor, not serious. That could just be another language thing or maybe just my not being clear enough, so I’m not really counting this among the “tells.” Still, it rankles. - I also find his logic very odd in deciding that **Silver Jan** was the only Scum power role. Is that really likely, when Town was apparently given a plethora of power roles: roleblocker, hider, bodyguard, detective, backup, and (possibly) doctor. Even if you include my role as a “possibly” too, rather than a definite, that’s still four power roles to only _one_ among the Scum? I admit I’m hardly an old timer at this game, but that seems mighty unbalanced. (Although if true, and Town _still_ ends up losing, we really really suck! :D) I can definitely imagine a Godfather being the alternate power role, though I don’t think it necessarily indicates **Scathach** or **Mahaloth** ; **Hirka** might’ve simply not gotten to investigate him/her yet. - I _don’t_ find his latest vote against **special ed** all that telling, however; he’s had it in for **special ed** since Day One. (He voted him on Days 1 and 3.) I’m also a little nervous to be voting with **septimus** , whom I still don’t trust, and **special ed** , who could indeed be scum. Speaking of **special ed** , I’m not sure I find his voting record as pro-Town as you do, **septimus** ; he went for me on Day 1, **fubbles** on Days 2 and 4, and **gnarlycharlie** on Day 3, which was definitely a great vote but one out of four isn’t a terrific record. I don’t remember whom he voted on Day 5. In fact… am I crazy or did he [not vote](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14623655&postcount=1316) on Day 5? What the hell? How has this gone unremarked until now? Or did we discuss it and I’ve forgotten it entirely? **special ed** , why didn’t you vote on Day 5? ARRGH. I was gonna vote **septimus** until **Svejk** turned up, and then I spent most of this post intending to vote **Svejk** again. But now my head’s been turned by this **special ed** oddity. Damn it. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1383 "2012-01-08T01:41:16Z")
Vote Count: Svejk (2): Special Ed, septimus Special Ed (2): Mahaloth, Svejk septimus (1): Scathach ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1384 "2012-01-08T01:45:40Z")
for the record, I’m a little hesitant to be voting with septimus myself. On day 5, the lynch was determined already. That’s not terribly unusual for me. There are several reasons why it can be beneficial. I might even be able to fins the point in a game (The Princes Bride, I think) where the tactic occurred to me. In short, by not voting, I provided the Scum temptation to potentially try to manipulate the vote. And with my vote available, I could have countered that. (Of course, all of the would have been predicated upon fluid being scum, which of course wasn’t true.) As an example, let’s use that vote count. fluiddruid (4): Hirka T’Bawa, Scathach, Svejk, septimus Special Ed (1): Mahaloth septimus (2): fluiddruid, choie Now, we know fluid was Town, but let’s assume Scum for the purpose of demonstration. Assume also that Hirka was Scum (I know it wasn’t true, but the other 3 voters are all actually alive, and I don’t want objections to my hypotheticals). A simple switch by Hirka from fluid to septimus could have created a tie. (sound familiar Svejk and Scathach? ;)) The we would have: fluiddruid (3): Scathach, Svejk, septimus Special Ed (1): Mahaloth septimus (3): fluiddruid, choie, Hirka T’Bawa and we might have gotten septimus lynched instead However, had I voted for fluid, the Scum wouldn’t even try something like that. Also, if I ended up being around at DayEnd, I could perhaps have countered. I hope that makes some sense. If you’re going to use the vote record as evidence, you do have to consider the circumstances that occurred at the time. Otherwise all Scum would ever have to do is vote clean. Also, while I never ended with a vote on Svejk, I was certainly on his case for a couple of Days. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1385 "2012-01-08T02:21:30Z")
That’s all well and good, but do you not see that you had to create a rather specific set of circumstances in order to justify this strategy? Yes, in the hypothetical scenario that happened exactly as you state it, Scum might’ve given themselves away. Or maybe a nervous Townie would’ve been the one to swap votes. Then what? What did this game of Chicken accomplish? In the end, I can’t ever condone not making a decision (yipe, almost said “taking a decision” – I’m writing a novel w/a British character and nearly forgot to put my American hat back on!). It strikes me as either hopelessly wishy-washy or a slippery attempt to avoid giving oneself away. In any case, not a wise pro-Town move. The whole point of this game is that Town needs information, and by withholding a vote, you’re not providing us with info. Put it this way. Do you recommend I make the same move now? I could just hang out in la-la-land and not pick a side, let the dice do my work for me. Wouldn’t people look askance at such a wussy move? I just can’t believe I’m in this same Sophie’s Choice situation _again_. WHAT THE HELL. Note to self: _Vote early_! ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1386 "2012-01-08T02:50:06Z")
> [@choie](#): > > That’s all well and good, but do you not see that you had to create a rather specific set of circumstances in order to justify this strategy? Yes, in the hypothetical scenario that happened exactly as you state it, Scum might’ve given themselves away. Or maybe a nervous Townie would’ve been the one to swap votes. Then what? What did this game of Chicken accomplish? > > In the end, I can’t ever condone not making a decision (yipe, almost said “taking a decision” – I’m writing a novel w/a British character and nearly forgot to put my American hat back on!). It strikes me as either hopelessly wishy-washy or a slippery attempt to avoid giving oneself away. In any case, not a wise pro-Town move. The whole point of this game is that Town needs information, and by withholding a vote, you’re not providing us with info. > > Put it this way. Do you recommend I make the same move now? I could just hang out in la-la-land and not pick a side, let the dice do my work for me. Wouldn’t people look askance at such a wussy move? > > I just can’t believe I’m in this same Sophie’s Choice situation _again_. WHAT THE HELL. Note to self: _Vote early_! When I didn’t vote, my vote didn’t matter. Also, I have been very clear in my suspicions throughout the game. If you read my posts, there is all the information, even though I didn’t formalize it into an actual vote. In reality, that shouldn’t make a difference. I wasn’t as wishy-washy as you think. I just don’t have an official vote. Hell, if I were Scum, I could have just made a safe vote and been done with it. And it’s true my tactic could have been completely meaningless. And it was as fluid was Town and Scum had no motivation for shenanigans. Not every gambit works. But some do. If you’d played enough with me, you’d know I’m quite willing to try many gambits. Voting without reasons to get reactions, casting votes on players I think are Town late in the game to see if I can get Scum to jump on the wagon with me (Hi, Renata!). And encouraging Scum to show themselves in other ways. Most gambits fail. No, I do not recommend you doing so. The situation is different. In this case, your vote matters greatly. Hell, if you want, just make a 3 way tie. If nothing else, it will be dramatic 😉 Also, even if you’d voted early, you’d be in the same boat with considering changing your votes. Much as all of us currently are. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1387 "2012-01-08T08:07:35Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > When I didn’t vote, my vote didn’t matter. Also, I have been very clear in my suspicions throughout the game. If you read my posts, there is all the information, even though I didn’t formalize it into an actual vote. In reality, that shouldn’t make a difference. I wasn’t as wishy-washy as you think. I just don’t have an official vote. Hell, if I were Scum, I could have just made a safe vote and been done with it. Your vote may or may not have mattered when it comes to who got lynched. However, all past votes add to the pot of combined Town knowledge, and as such I just can’t agree that there’s an overall benefit to Town in an abstention (whether it’s passive, by not voting, or the way **fubbleskag** did it–by voting to abstain, which made almost all of us consider him shifty/suspicious). Then again, you’re way more experienced at this than I am, so maybe my black-and-white view on this is mere callowness. > [@](#): > > No, I do not recommend you doing so. The situation is different. In this case, your vote matters greatly. Hell, if you want, just make a 3 way tie. If nothing else, it will be dramatic 😉 Oh trust me, I’m tempted, because right now I’m in the weirdest position of trusting **Scathach** over almost everyone else in the game, which is crazy considering I’ve been on her like white on rice since the 17th century (or whenever this game started… sure feels like it’s been centuries!). > [@](#): > > Also, even if you’d voted early, you’d be in the same boat with considering changing your votes. Much as all of us currently are. It wouldn’t feel this portentious, though. I strongly suspect that if I vote **Svejk** , as I was planning, **Scathach** will shift her vote to you ( **special ed** ) in order to prevent what she will probably claim is a mislynch of **Svejk**. She hasn’t found him suspicious at all, mainly because she can’t see why a Scum **Svejk** would switch from voting her (assuming she’s really Town) to voting **Inner** (as Town). I still think that can be explained two ways: either a) she’s scum and he was saving a scumbuddy, or b) **Svejk** thought **Scathach** was far more likely to be lynched because all the momentum was on her, not **Inner**. So leaping off a Townie **Scathach** lynching to vote for a Townie **Inner** was a gamble that other people would continue to vote **Scathach** and then **Svejk** would look pretty good for hopping off the bandwagon when he did. A long shot, but not impossible at all. And **Svejk** is wily enough to pull off a move like that. Anyway, I’m just repeating what I’ve already said, as is my wont. I haven’t trusted **septimus** , **Svejk** or **Scathach** almost the entire game. I strongly feel either **septimus** is the equivalent of _30 Rock_’s Dr. Spaceman, or he’s Scum. But I will feel way worse if I’m wrong about him than if I’m wrong about **Svejk**. So, to hell with it. **vote Svejk** Let all the poisons that lurk in the mud hatch out. ---
**Author:** ![Scathach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Scathach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scathach)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1388 "2012-01-08T14:07:25Z")
> [@choie](#): > > It wouldn’t feel this portentious, though. I strongly suspect that if I vote **Svejk** , as I was planning, **Scathach** will shift her vote to you ( **special ed** ) in order to prevent what she will probably claim is a mislynch of **Svejk**. She hasn’t found him suspicious at all, mainly because she can’t see why a Scum **Svejk** would switch from voting her (assuming she’s really Town) to voting **Inner** (as Town). I still think that can be explained two ways: either a) she’s scum and he was saving a scumbuddy, or b) **Svejk** thought **Scathach** was far more likely to be lynched because all the momentum was on her, not **Inner**. So leaping off a Townie **Scathach** lynching to vote for a Townie **Inner** was a gamble that other people would continue to vote **Scathach** and then **Svejk** would look pretty good for hopping off the bandwagon when he did. I won’t say it’s not tempting. My 2 biggest scum suspects are now voting, on the basis of one post, for a person I’ve found townie all game. But then, on the other hand, that post was \*really \*off. I didn’t like the weird way he referred to “vanilla townie ed” as if he knew ed was town. And septimus didn’t like the use of subjunctive, which I don’t fully agree with, but do remember him saying he’d slipped the same way on the scum board for De’endee (I was killed off n1 in that game, so was following along on the spoiler boards). So it’s not completely implausible. ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1389 "2012-01-08T18:37:18Z")
Well, seeing those that I accused grasp at straws to vote against me confirms me in my beliefs that they are, in fact, scum. Unfortunately, there are so many of them that the best I can hope for is a tie with Special Ed, but it’s better than nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1390 "2012-01-09T03:22:43Z")
Vote Count: Svejk (3): Special Ed, septimus, choie Special Ed (2): Mahaloth, Svejk septimus (1): Scathach DUN dun dun DUN dun dun DUN dun dun Now that the suspense has finally been increased enough, it’s time to reveal! Just who was Svejk? Was he as friendly and innocent as he appeared? Had he been dealt red like most of us, or was his heart blacker than a black stone? The fate of the tiny township rested in his identity, and he was: **Vanilla Town** Oh no! One, two, three–there’s not enough people left to defend against the hideously misbehaved clubbers of the night! **septimus** and **Special Ed** are free to stir up drama and backstabbing wherever they seek, without any noble men to warn of their jerkishness! **Scum wins!** ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1391 "2012-01-09T03:25:08Z")
(shakes fist) We’ll get you guys next time! Great game, scum! ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1392 "2012-01-09T03:30:12Z")
Choie’s never gonna trust Septimus again. ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1393 "2012-01-09T03:44:29Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Choie’s never gonna trust Septimus again. Nope, never! I knew I should have investigated **Septimus** earlier. I just never trusted him. I really thought he was acting scummy… I actually put an order in to have him investigated the night I died… Should have done it earlier… ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1394 "2012-01-09T03:45:09Z")
Ed was scum! I knew it!!! ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1395 "2012-01-09T03:47:42Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Ed was scum! I knew it!!! hehehe me too!!!11!!! ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1396 "2012-01-09T03:50:11Z")
Fuck. Me. I’m sorry guys. Congrats to scum. > [@Inner Stickler](#): > > Choie’s never gonna trust Septimus again. Ain’t _that_ the truth. What sucks is that I didn’t trust him _already_. I was gonna vote for him until **Svejk** spoke up, and then I was tempted to switch to **special ed** because I noticed his not-voting B.S. move, but no, oh God why am I SUCH AN IDIOT. I think it’ll be a while before I play this game again! I can’t handle the responsibility! ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1397 "2012-01-09T03:53:30Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Fuck. Me. > > I’m sorry guys. Congrats to scum. > > Ain’t _that_ the truth. What sucks is that I didn’t trust him _already_. I was gonna vote for him until **Svejk** spoke up, and then I was tempted to switch to **special ed** because I noticed his not-voting B.S. move, but no, oh God why am I SUCH AN IDIOT. > > I think it’ll be a while before I play this game again! I can’t handle the responsibility! The not voting is something I’d do as Town though. It’s not as if I was lurking and not even posting suspicions. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1398 "2012-01-09T03:56:16Z")
yeah, but I can’t believe no one wanted to lynch septimus at the end. His claim was faulty, he didn’t save anyone. He really was a doctor though, he protected me on night 1 and himself every Night after that. I’m also surprised that no one pointed out that I seemed to be expecting that the Scum had a group kill. While it’s true that trepa does do that, I’m still surprised I didn’t get more flak for that. Were you really a roleblocker, choie? I really thought you were the SK because Sister really did block you. I’m not sure what the point of your role was. I guess just a red herrings unless you can stop the SK, who I must assume was PCM. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1399 "2012-01-09T03:57:53Z")
Trepa, can you open up the boards? ---
**Author:** ![Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/db5fbb/32.png) [@Hirka\_T\_Bawa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirka_T_Bawa)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/1400 "2012-01-09T04:07:54Z")
I guess since the game is over, and **Trepa** hasn’t posted spoilers, it won’t be against the rules to post what he answer for me when I requested spoilers after my death. **PCM** was the SK **Septimus** was a scum doctor **Special Ed** was a scum goon **Choie** was being honest, and is the town role blocker. Did the scum have a board? It would be interesting to read it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=69) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=71)