# Mafia: The Thrill of the Chase \[Newbie Friendly!\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 20, 2011, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526 "2011-11-20T06:04:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/161 "2011-11-29T01:21:29Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > Here’s the bad/good thing about Mafia. > > Everyone needs to post-a lot. Timely, intelligent, insightful posts. > > However… > > Everything.single.thing you post will be held against you at some point. > > Don’t take it personally. Keep posting. > > The only information we have to detect scum is by everyone’s posts. > > Scum know this, therefore they (general rule) try to lurk-either by not posting at all, or by posting fluff. > > Lynching in absence of information is basically betting odds. At this point of the game, odds favor scum. I hate blind lynchings. Townies at the end of the rope sucks ass. > > There is a very strong sentiment of ‘lynch the lurker.’ I happen to agree with it, not only because it can be a scum ‘tell’ on occasion, but mostly because if you’re not going to participate, well, why are you even here? > > That doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate 1 very insightful post to 10 ‘fluff’ posts. Bah! 1. Scum don’t necessarily lurk. Scum try to look like Townies more often than not. 2. Lynching isn’t just about killing Scum. I mean, we’re going to get Townies, but that gives us information. 3. Lynching lurkers is the epitome of shooting blind. If someone is lurking we know nothing about them. And thereby we get no information from their lynch. And, in fact, it’s an easy place for a scum to hide a vote. 4. I prefer to leave lurkers to a Vigilante, especially at the beginning when we might have someone who is gone for a day or two. (or at least until it’s obvious we don’t have a Vig) Addendum, hmmm…would the post I quoted be the kind of thing a scum might say, you know, in an attempt to look like they were a good Townie hunting Scum while not really accomplishing any Scum hunting whatsoever? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/162 "2011-11-29T01:22:41Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Let’s see if we have these principals good. > > Those who lurk are avoiding attention (possible scum) > Those who post fluff are avoiding enemies (possible scum) :snipped: I, as scum, just got lynched over on Idlemafia(another board a lot of veterans play on) for doing both. I lurked for most of Day One, then posted light posts of little worth. I got called out and(rightfully) lynched. On Day One. Thing is, I kind had forgotten I was scum and was just playing along, mostly distracted and trying to chime in when I got a chance. They were right to lynch me, but even then, it was hugely lucky as well. I won’t go into it any further since the game is ongoing, but I wasn’t intentionally being fluffy or lurking. I would have played identically as Town and been lynched, too. Oh, if I overexplain anything and so forth, it’s for the newbies. I’m not even sure who our newbies are. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/163 "2011-11-29T01:23:07Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Let’s see if we have these principals good. > > Those who lurk are avoiding attention (possible scum) > Those who post fluff are avoiding enemies (possible scum) > > So, with these assumptions we can deduce that it’s be absolutely insane for scum to stand out (in any way) from the crowd while the game is in it’s infancy. Someone who stands out will be highly scrutinized by the mob and, since the game just started, the odds are already with the scum anyways so why take silly chances? Anti-bah! (at least if I’m reading the sarcasm correctly) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/164 "2011-11-29T01:23:50Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > See? This board really hates random votes which is a shame if only because a lot of other sites use it frequently and offboard encyclopedias include it as a valid Day 1 strategy. I swear, we lose more noobs to random voting. We do? I don’t remember a lot of random voting around here. I’m referring to the part I underlined in your post. When have we lost a lot of noobs to random voting? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/165 "2011-11-29T01:26:29Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Let’s see if we have these principals good. > > Those who lurk are avoiding attention (possible scum) > Those who post fluff are avoiding enemies (possible scum) > > So, with these assumptions we can deduce that it’s be absolutely insane for scum to stand out (in any way) from the crowd while the game is in it’s infancy. Someone who stands out will be highly scrutinized by the mob and, since the game just started, the odds are already with the scum anyways so why take silly chances? The problem is that tentative townies will lurk and post fluff too because they don’t want to get lynched. (You win with your side whether you’re dead or alive unless you are a third party role, so don’t worry quite as much about being lynched.) Day 1 is especially tough in this regard because everyone is coming in cold. There’s not the rapport of a few Days to give us meat to chew on. There’s no vote to analyze or cases to break down. Some players focus on delineating the rules, others interrogate other players and some, like Ed, just float around and make you feel inferior. So what makes any one player stand out especially on Day 1? Especially given that with the number of new people and dilettantes playing, how can we be sure at all whether something is indicative of alignment or merely personal preference? ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/166 "2011-11-29T01:27:02Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > :snipped: > > I, as scum, just got lynched over on Idlemafia(another board a lot of veterans play on) for doing both. I lurked for most of Day One, then posted light posts of little worth. I got called out and(rightfully) lynched. On Day One. > > Thing is, I kind had forgotten I was scum and was just playing along, mostly distracted and trying to chime in when I got a chance. They were right to lynch me, but even then, it was hugely lucky as well. I won’t go into it any further since the game is ongoing, but I wasn’t intentionally being fluffy or lurking. I would have played identically as Town and been lynched, too. > > Oh, if I overexplain anything and so forth, it’s for the newbies. I’m not even sure who our newbies are. Bah! talking about current games! I say we lynch him! ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/167 "2011-11-29T01:29:12Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > The problem is that tentative townies will lurk and post fluff too because they don’t want to get lynched. (You win with your side whether you’re dead or alive unless you are a third party role, so don’t worry quite as much about being lynched.) > > Day 1 is especially tough in this regard because everyone is coming in cold. There’s not the rapport of a few Days to give us meat to chew on. There’s no vote to analyze or cases to break down. Some players focus on delineating the rules, others interrogate other players and some, like Ed, just float around and make you feel inferior. So what makes any one player stand out especially on Day 1? Especially given that with the number of new people and dilettantes playing, how can we be sure at all whether something is indicative of alignment or merely personal preference? Wait! WTF? I make you feel inferior? How? I’ve played so many of these games and my record is abysmal! I am horrible at this game. When I try serious approaches, I’m wrong. When I try being flippant, I’m wrong. I’m just wrong. And on those instances when I’m right, no one listens to me anyway. So what does my reasoning matter? I can sit here and Bah and applaud and let you all come to your own conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/168 "2011-11-29T01:30:43Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > We do? I don’t remember a lot of random voting around here. I’m referring to the part I underlined in your post. When have we lost a lot of noobs to random voting? That’s my point. Almost nobody who plays here regularly makes a random vote on Day 1. But other sites have cultures that allow it and when they come here and start off with a random vote, they usually end up getting lynched. And when a poor newbie like Svejk tries a random vote like he read about in preparation, he gets lambasted for it. Honestly, his random vote strikes me as a null to a town tell because scum would overthink and not risk the danger. It’s not like we’ve run off hordes of new players because of it, but it’s a factor that’s contributed to more than one Day 1 mislynch of a new player, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/169 "2011-11-29T01:34:03Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > I make you feel inferior? I was trying to be funny. > [@](#): > > I’ve played so many of these games and my record is abysmal! I am horrible at this game. When I try serious approaches, I’m wrong. When I try being flippant, I’m wrong. I’m just wrong. > > And on those instances when I’m right, no one listens to me anyway. So what does my reasoning matter? I can sit here and Bah and applaud and let you all come to your own conclusions. Well, I don’t really think any good will come out of playing Who Lost More Mafia Games Than Whom so I’ll just say that I consider you at least a tier above me in the mafia hierarchy and when you make a positive or negative comment, I scrutinize it more seriously that I do some other people. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/170 "2011-11-29T01:36:01Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I was trying to be funny. > > Well, I don’t really think any good will come out of playing Who Lost More Mafia Games Than Whom so I’ll just say that I consider you at least a tier above me in the mafia hierarchy and when you make a positive or negative comment, I scrutinize it more seriously that I do some other people. awww, it’s been Days since anyone snuggled me like that. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/171 "2011-11-29T01:38:53Z")
:mad: I don’t care what you say, I’m finally town again so I’m not censoring my posts. _Skips down the lane_ Tra la la la la. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/172 "2011-11-29T01:52:07Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > :mad: > I don’t care what you say, I’m finally town again so I’m not censoring my posts. _Skips down the lane_ Tra la la la la. I believe you, which means you’re probably Scum. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/173 "2011-11-29T01:56:08Z")
I don’t believe you believe me which means I’m a cynical bastard. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/174 "2011-11-29T01:58:19Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I don’t believe you believe me which means I’m a cynical bastard. maybe I’m confused, did I anti-Bah you in this game? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/175 "2011-11-29T01:59:03Z")
Nope. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/176 "2011-11-29T02:12:04Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Nope. never mind then. But hey, at least with all this talking, we won’t be considered lurkers, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Svejk\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea666f/32.png) [@Svejk\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svejk_1)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/177 "2011-11-29T02:14:03Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > False or hasty? I’ll do hasty(well, quick, anyway) on Day One…don’t know about false since I don’t know who/what anyone is. > > **Vote Svejk** for the random vote. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > We do? I don’t remember a lot of random voting around here. I’m referring to the part I underlined in your post. When have we lost a lot of noobs to random voting? Did you just vote against me for random voting, and then ask if a lot of newbies got lynched because of random voted? It would appear to me that you represent the very mechanism that you are asking a question about - all within the space of five posts! > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > That’s my point. Almost nobody who plays here regularly makes a random vote on Day 1. But other sites have cultures that allow it and when they come here and start off with a random vote, they usually end up getting lynched. And when a poor newbie like Svejk tries a random vote like he read about in preparation, he gets lambasted for it. Honestly, his random vote strikes me as a null to a town tell because scum would overthink and not risk the danger. It’s not like we’ve run off hordes of new players because of it, but it’s a factor that’s contributed to more than one Day 1 mislynch of a new player, in my opinion. Well the Day is still young so I’m not too worried but it would suck to get lynched one my first Day, especially if it was for something as poorly justified as this. My random vote was simply a way to get the conversation going (which I guess it has). I guess some people don’t like the random votes, to them I apologize and I call upon them to show me how to contribute in a better way. For the record, I borrowed this strategy from the **Simpletown** game that was played on this board, where it was used IIRC by some of the more seasoned players. Not that it matters. For the moment, **Inner Stickler** is correct in pointing out that my random vote does not serve as a tell for a whole lot in particular, and there’s not a whole lot more I think that can be said about it. As it stands, we have not heard anything from the person that I randomly voted against - **SilverJan** - nor from **FluidDruid** who kept us all waiting for so long. I wonder what they have to say for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![fisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@fisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fisha)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/178 "2011-11-29T02:17:35Z")
> [@special\_ed](#): > > Bah! > > 1. Scum don’t necessarily lurk. Scum try to look like Townies more often than not. > 2. Lynching isn’t just about killing Scum. I mean, we’re going to get Townies, but that gives us information. > 3. Lynching lurkers is the epitome of shooting blind. If someone is lurking we know nothing about them. And thereby we get no information from their lynch. And, in fact, it’s an easy place for a scum to hide a vote. > 4. I prefer to leave lurkers to a Vigilante, especially at the beginning when we might have someone who is gone for a day or two. (or at least until it’s obvious we don’t have a Vig) > > Addendum, hmmm…would the post I quoted be the kind of thing a scum might say, you know, in an attempt to look like they were a good Townie hunting Scum while not really accomplishing any Scum hunting whatsoever? 1. They do, but that doesn’t mean they do it well. 2. Yes, this is one thing I struggle with, personally. I want every single townie to survive. I want to be so good at Mafia that not only can I save every single townie and sniff out every single scum, but that I can convince every one else to listen to me. Hasn’t happened yet. This might be an actual psychological problem, but I doubt it. So, I have learned that lynched townies have their value from the info they provide, even as I mourn their demise. 3. I’d rather lynch a noncontributing unknown, than a contributing unknown. Play the game, folks. 4. Do we have a vig or not? Professional opinions from more experienced players? I am a little disheartened at your “let the possible vig get the lurkers.” Why? One thing that frustrates the hell out of me is at the beginning of the game, when we’re all feeling each other up in the dark, is that if a townie gets lynched, and that specific townie votes for X, then everyone else goes “X must be scum because the poor lynched bastard voted for him!!” What kind of fallacy is that? Can’t remember, but it’s stupid. The poor lynched bastard knew nothing more than we did, but some think he had special magical powers of foresight. THAT is a very good place to see scum voting under the radar. ---
**Author:** ![special\_ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@special\_ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/special_ed)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/179 "2011-11-29T02:35:16Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > 1. They do, but that doesn’t mean they do it well. > > 2. Yes, this is one thing I struggle with, personally. I want every single townie to survive. I want to be so good at Mafia that not only can I save every single townie and sniff out every single scum, but that I can convince every one else to listen to me. Hasn’t happened yet. This might be an actual psychological problem, but I doubt it. So, I have learned that lynched townies have their value from the info they provide, even as I mourn their demise. > > 3. I’d rather lynch a noncontributing unknown, than a contributing unknown. Play the game, folks. > > 4. Do we have a vig or not? Professional opinions from more experienced players? > > I am a little disheartened at your “let the possible vig get the lurkers.” Why? > > One thing that frustrates the hell out of me is at the beginning of the game, when we’re all feeling each other up in the dark, is that if a townie gets lynched, and that specific townie votes for X, then everyone else goes “X must be scum because the poor lynched bastard voted for him!!” > > What kind of fallacy is that? Can’t remember, but it’s stupid. The poor lynched bastard knew nothing more than we did, but some think he had special magical powers of foresight. THAT is a very good place to see scum voting under the radar. A. Some do it very well. B. I agree, this might be an actual psychological problem. And a lynched Townie provides much more information than just from their pre-demise contributions C. Have you met peeker? I’d rather a Vigilante took care of the non-contributors, and we lynch the players who might yield information from the lynch and vote record. D. We might. We’ll know soon enough. Why6 waste an early Day lynching a lurker when that lynch gives us no information since Town and Scum could just as easily jump on that bandwagon? E. No one says “let’s lynch the people who the Night Kill was voting for.” It’s too easy and contains too much WIFOM. However, after a few deaths, we might see some patterns in the voting. Like a vote cast by a still living player that saved a Scum from a lynch. Like a late bandwagon jump on a doomed Scum. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526/180 "2011-11-29T02:36:04Z")
> [@fisha](#): > > 1. I’d rather lynch a noncontributing unknown, than a contributing unknown. Play the game, folks. It’s not a matter of what you’d rather do, it’s a matter of what’s most beneficial to your side. Townies and scum lurk pretty evenly with each other. Without more to go on, it’s a total crap shoot. > [@](#): > > 1. Do we have a vig or not? Professional opinions from more experienced players? It’s possible. We won’t know until we have a few Nights under our belts. I would not be surprised to see a vig in a newbfriendly game. > [@](#): > > I am a little disheartened at your “let the possible vig get the lurkers.” Why? Well, for starters, it’s standard vig strategy. There are two common methods touted for optimum vigging. One is to take out the lynch runner up if the lynched flipped town on the assumption that scum bandwagoned a townie to save a scum. (And even if the runner up is town, it saves town wasting a day waffling on whether to lynch the runner up.) The other method is to shoot into the pool of lurkers as an enticement to get people to post. I used this strategy to great effect in one of Special Ed’s games on Giraffe and I nailed a couple of scum that way. The lynch is the only weapon town as a whole has. Using it on lurkers is a waste of time if there’s a vig. [quote] One thing that frustrates the hell out of me is at the beginning of the game, when we’re all feeling each other up in the dark, is that if a townie gets lynched, and that specific townie votes for X, then everyone else goes “X must be scum because the poor lynched bastard voted for him!!” /QUOTE]No, but if as the game progresses and we see a surprising number of red names in the list of people who voted for that person, one tends to draw conclusions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-thrill-of-the-chase-newbie-friendly/603526.md?page=10)