# Mafia Watch-Along Thread - NO SPOILERS! \[FORBIDDEN TO LIVE PLAYERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 17, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379 "2015-07-17T01:15:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/221 "2015-08-27T16:51:51Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > I imagine if I ever get to play deep into a game as scum it would give me some insight into how scum think. Any suggestions (other than “find another hobby”)? That’s probably what you need most. I’ve found that players have a hard time imagining what scum will and will not do in the game. Once you play as scum, then you have a better idea of what the concerns and fears of scum are and how they manifest in the game. Players have a tendency to focus on the flashy speakers, when in reality, scum are trying desperately not to be noticed, which includes being noticed for trying not to be noticed. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/222 "2015-08-27T17:02:03Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > I see Biotop was the mason, as expected. Why is he still alive?? > > I’m still guessing Nonsuch, Johnny Bravo, and Diggit for scum. Why Nonsuch? The only suspicious thing I can identify about him is that he hasn’t done anything suspicious. He’s been a bit on the lurky side, but not outrageously so. I think it’s possible but unlikely that Bravo and Diggit are both scum, but I’d be stunned if they’re both town. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/223 "2015-08-27T17:08:13Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Why Nonsuch? The only suspicious thing I can identify about him is that he hasn’t done anything suspicious. He’s been a bit on the lurky side, but not outrageously so. I think it’s possible but unlikely that Bravo and Diggit are both scum, but I’d be stunned if they’re both town. Actually, that in and of itself is a good reason to be suspicious. I call them “clean-nosers.” ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/224 "2015-08-27T17:12:17Z")
Good point. He has also, on a couple occasions, seemed VERY sure that I was town. How common do you think snuggling actually is as a scum strategy? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/225 "2015-08-27T17:46:29Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Good point. He has also, on a couple occasions, seemed VERY sure that I was town. How common do you think snuggling actually is as a scum strategy? Personally, I’ve never subscribed to the snuggle theory of mafia; but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. I’m more of the opinion of being suspicious of someones certainty because lack of paranoia is a scum trait. So in that sense, yes, someone who was too certain you were town would be suspicious in my eyes. Even when I’m “certain” someone is acting in a Town way, there is always a tiny part of me that is paranoid that I am wrong. Scum don’t have that issue. Long ago, we used to catch scum because X would claim and Y would take that claim at face value. Y was found to be scum because everyone else who was Town was still operating under the assumption that X might be lying. That type of behavior doesn’t happen often anymore, but you can see why shutting up as scum is so damn appealing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/226 "2015-08-27T18:51:09Z")
Personally, I’m reluctant to ever “consider someone Townish”, for two reasons. First, the only relevant question for voting is “who’s scummiest”, and there’s no practical difference between the second-scummiest player and the towniest. Second, the penalty for being wrong is severe: If Town considers someone scummy, and they’re wrong, they’ll find that out fairly quickly, but if Town considers someone Towny, and they’re wrong, then Scum will win the game. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/227 "2015-08-27T19:06:00Z")
I disagree. The notion that anything and everything that happens in the game that would lead one to think someone is Town could just be scum making you think that doesn’t ring true to me. Sure there are things and actions scum will do to look townie, but every once in a while circumstances happen that make absolutely no sense for scum to do. I do agree with a small amount doubt in these cases, but occasionally you have to round up to “Town” since you can’t lynch everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/228 "2015-08-27T21:02:53Z")
Man, despite everything I know from this thread, Professor P _still_ looks like the scummiest player to me. He is really hammering away at how surely town he is. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/229 "2015-08-27T21:22:27Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Why Nonsuch? The only suspicious thing I can identify about him is that he hasn’t done anything suspicious. He’s been a bit on the lurky side, but not outrageously so. I think it’s possible but unlikely that Bravo and Diggit are both scum, but I’d be stunned if they’re both town. > [@MAFIA: The Game - Ideal for Beginners \[Game in Progress\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1511): > > Diggit is Town because Thing Fish showed that it didn’t make sense for Plum to be Town and Diggit then be scum. Prof.P is quoting you saying that Diggit can’t be scum. Is that what you said? And why can’t Bravo and Diggit be scum together? As for Nonsuch, some of it is probably omgus. And some of it is his voting. D1 he stayed off the Texcat/Septimus wagons by voting Dante. D2 he switched and voted me. D4 he stayed out off the Plum/Sario/Sangfroid wagons and voted PMollusc. D5 he again switches and actually gets involved in one of the wagons, this time he votes Plum who is neck and neck with scum!Diggit. His posts may pass the sniff test, but his votes smell like canine bad breath to me. Prof.P. is the opposite. He’s been making good votes, but his posts look scummy. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/230 "2015-08-27T22:04:29Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Prof.P is quoting you saying that Diggit can’t be scum. Is that what you said? And why can’t Bravo and Diggit be scum together? I guess I did literally say that the scenario where Plum is town and Diggit scum made no sense, but I think it is clear in context that I what I meant was “if that is true, then someone I think is Town must not be”, which obviously is a possibility which I wouldn’t dismiss as blithely as the Professor seems to. Really, my read on Prof P all game was pretty much newbie rather than scummy (not to say that he couldn’t be newbie _and_ scummy), and this exaggeration is another example. If Bravo and Diggit are both scum, they are trying to bus each other. The possibility can’t be entirely overlooked, but in my experience town worries about bussing much more often than scum actually try it ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/231 "2015-08-28T00:45:22Z")
Really, that depends on the Scum. With inexperienced Scum, you can often identify the entire team just by looking at who’s avoiding voting for whom. With experienced Scum, you’ll sometimes find them going after each other even harder than the genuine Townies are. The catch, of course (and the reason I no longer do my computerized analyses of voting records) is that you don’t know whether you have experienced Scum until you know who they are. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/232 "2015-08-28T14:09:07Z")
> [@Astral\_Rejection](#): > > Man, despite everything I know from this thread, Professor P _still_ looks like the scummiest player to me. He is really hammering away at how surely town he is. I know! Right? It’s gotten to the point where I start thinking Sario was lying to us in this thread, but there really isn’t any reason for him to do such a crappy thing. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/233 "2015-08-28T14:45:22Z")
**Dante G** , I’d like to get in on your game. I played on this board many years ago, and I would love to do it again. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/234 "2015-08-28T14:52:44Z")
> [@MAFIA: The Game - Ideal for Beginners \[Game in Progress\]](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-the-game-ideal-for-beginners-game-in-progress/725099/1524): > > I think Occam’s Razor works well here. The wolves didn’t know who the remaining mason was and they expected that Sario would be the one to break the tie. > > My main suspect right now, obviously, is Diggit. I do tend to get blinders when it comes to accusing people in this game, and I rarely switch my votes without a compelling reason. I will note that e, now a confirmed town, encouraged me to switch my vote off \*\*Diggit \*\*and onto **Plum**. I didn’t. If I was a wolf who knew that **Thing Fish** was on the nightkill short list, wouldn’t it have made more sense to follow his lead there? Following a soon-to-be-confirmed townie into a vote on a different townie would have been a safe move. > > I don’t buy that those who vote for wolves should be trusted as town. If that were an axiom, this game would be a **lot** harder. At the moment I’m suspicious of both \*\*Jimmy \*\*and \*\*Cygnus \*\*for following your vote on **Plumpudding** so close to the end of the day. If you hadn’t claimed as Mason, I’d be all up your ass about it, too. Reading your posts without knowing you’re mason, it really does look like you engineered a save for \*\*Diggit. > > \*\*I’m also suspicious of \*\*Mollusc \*\*because a) some of his posts are borderline incomprehensible to me and b) what I can parse involves an awful lot of assumptions where “likely town” translates into “confirmed town” in his calculations. There’s the explanation for what the wolves were thinking during the Sario lynch, straight from the [del]horse’s[/del] wolf’s mouth. I wonder about the defense of “I would never do that if I were a wolf”. Is that a sure scum tell? Anyone know or studied it? It sure looks like it in this case, especially as it’s followed by something so complicated as knowing who was on the NK short list and what a “safe move” is. I would be willing to bet that the wolves had a discussion last night about bussing each other. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/235 "2015-08-28T15:20:56Z")
I actually like the effect of the initial weird tiebreaker system, because it gave people something to argue about on Day 1. It threatens to break the game, but it doesn’t really break it because exploiting the mechanic requires an unlikely degree of cooperation. Maybe every Mafia game should have a flawed rule like that. ---
**Author:** ![Astral\_Rejection](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Astral\_Rejection](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astral_Rejection)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/236 "2015-08-28T16:19:33Z")
Wolves sometimes have a bad habit of explaining the “likely wolf course of action” that happens to be exactly right, because they want to appear townie by undercutting the ridiculously bizarre and complicated plots actual town likes to imagine. I’m starting to think “being rational” is a scum tell. 😃 If you want to see this masterfully done, look at Stanislaus’ comments in my De’endee game. I think that guy played the best scum game I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/237 "2015-08-28T17:22:49Z")
WfTomba - Consider yourself signed up - unofficially of course, since the sign ups haven’t started yet, but still … ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/238 "2015-08-28T17:54:32Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > :smack: You’re right - my mistake. Yeah, I’ve seen other games where’s it’s more explicit that the Wolves (or Mafia) will overwhelm the Townies and kill them all once they have superior numbers. They don’t need to hide anymore. I know I’ve seen variations where it can be the same number. But any other examples of people playing with that win condition. Also, **Dante G** , any teasers about the game? I probably won’t play because I’m never reliable–I post in spurts–but I think others might enjoy the teaser trailer. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/239 "2015-08-28T17:58:16Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yeah, I’ve seen other games where’s it’s more explicit that the Wolves (or Mafia) will overwhelm the Townies and kill them all once they have superior numbers. They don’t need to hide anymore. > > I know I’ve seen variations where it can be the same number. But any other examples of people playing with that win condition. As a side note, the ‘living wolves outnumbering living town’ win condition is a consequence of the equivalent win condition, ‘completely eliminate the opposition.’ Once Wolves reach majority, nothing can stop them from eliminating Town completely. It’s just more sane to call the game at that point rather than dragging it out. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/240 "2015-08-28T18:17:50Z")
Teasers, huh… Ok. In a world where action movie heroes exist amongst each other, a yet to be determined number of them must work together to survive against a threat of villainy that they thought they had already dealt with. With their lives **under siege** , who among them will be\*\* taken\*\* down? Will you sign up to fight? **Do you feel lucky?!** **Yippee ki yay, motherfuckers!** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379.md?page=13)