# Mafia Watch-Along Thread - NO SPOILERS! \[FORBIDDEN TO LIVE PLAYERS\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [July 17, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379 "2015-07-17T01:15:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/261 "2015-09-02T18:36:51Z")
If I was closest to the mark, Town is really screwed! I think Bravo looks scummiest now, as Jimmy just pointed out in his vote post he has been attacking townies all game, often with very poor arguments. In fact, despite what I said earlier, by the end of the Day I had convinced myself that I would have voted for him if I were still alive. Now I feel much more hesitant, because he did go hard after Diggit before Diggit had many other votes on him. But I think he would still probably be my vote today. As for the other six, I just have no earthly idea. Let’s hope town is collectively smarter than I am. And welcome to the thread, Biotop! Congratulations on a job well done. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/262 "2015-09-02T19:12:58Z")
By the way, is it a source of confusion to anyone else that there’s both a **Jimmy** and a **Johnny** in the game? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/263 "2015-09-02T19:18:54Z")
No. I glom onto the Bravo part and the Chitwood part and ignore the first parts. I do get other players mixed up for not-username-related reasons though. Very strange post by Johnny Bravo about the votes he is receiving. I was thinking earlier that Johnny Bravo was Town, but the invitation for more votes and the “I’ll mount a defense later” is very non-Town like to me. Don’t townies usually get mad when people try to lynch them? Why is he so blasé? ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/264 "2015-09-02T20:41:50Z")
Welcome **Biotop**! You did great! ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/265 "2015-09-03T00:17:38Z")
This was sure a lot of fun. I am just getting off work and will read through this thread and post thoughts later. Go Town! ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/266 "2015-09-03T00:19:30Z")
> [@Plumpudding](#): > > Welcome **Biotop**! You did great! I didn’t do great by you. I was weak when I needed to be strong. Kicked myself for two real days after your lynch. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/267 "2015-09-03T01:32:44Z")
That’s just part of the game. You can’t be right every day. And heck, even if you hadn’t personally found any wolves, they also serve who only stand and keep discussion going. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/268 "2015-09-03T01:59:11Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > I didn’t do great by you. I was weak when I needed to be strong. Kicked myself for two real days after your lynch. You played a good game. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/269 "2015-09-03T05:42:53Z")
So many thoughts… * * * But first, a couple questions about game ethics: - Was it OK to look at **Sario** ’s profile to see when he last logged on and thus infer that he had been reading but not posting? Was his objection to this fair or not? - Would it have been OK to notice if a player’s “green light” went out right after the EOD? Because if I was scum, I’d probably be hopping over to the Scum Board as soon as Day ended, and I might just log out. If I was town, perhaps I am going to be posting in other threads. No real proof of anything…but suggestive. Legit or not? - While we are not supposed to post anything of substance at Night, was it fair for us to nevertheless draw conclusions from\* other player’s posts\* made at Night? For instance, **Plum** ’s “exciting” comment after Day 1 was made at Night, and some of us incorrectly read scumminess from that post. **DiggitCamara** did not post a “Hurrah!” comment after we lynched **Sario** , and I read wolfishness from that non-post. I also misread **Dante G** when he made his “homey” comment about **septimus** during the first Night. So are Night comments fair game as long as the player who is actually posting (or NOT posting) is not intentionally trying to hunt wolves or deceive town? - On the other hand, if a wolf post’s “Hurrah” at Night over a scum lynch, he is actively posting deception at Night. So what’s the verdict? Can wolves post trickery at Night, but not town? * * * ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/270 "2015-09-03T06:42:52Z")
And I gotta say I am a bit surprised at all the suspicion directed towards **Prof. Pepperwinkle** in this thread. It is his first game, after all. If he does turn out to be scum, and **Sario** is bluffing about him in this thread, then I will tip my hat to the professor. I read him as strongly town for most of the game. I regret posting such praise of **Jimmy Chitwood** early on in the game. Another newbie mistake. If **Johnny Bravo** turns out to be town, then I am forced to conclude he and **Nonsuch** are the wolves. But damn, **Jimmy** will have played a good fake town game if wolf, especially his pointing out **DiggitCamara** ’s use of “scummiest ever” twice when no one else had noticed it. (Though his late arrival posting vote to lynch\*\* Plum\*\* and his later suspicion of me have raised my hackles.) Could they have Night killed **Thing Fish** because they hoped the town would grow suspicious of me because I had not been Night killed and because I had screwed up on the **Plum** vs\*\* Diggit \*\*decision? And then **Jimmy** began the case against me before I claimed. Was this planned? Surely it was obvious that I was FMason and could claim? Sigh. “Who the hell knows?” **Precam** … When everyone was first questioning **Plum** ’s posted PM, **Precambrianmollusc** asked whether storyteller’s name would be at the top of a real PM, implying **Plum** was faking it. If **Precambrianmollusc** is wolf, he would have known **Plum** was town and the PM was legit. Would a wolf think to ask something he would so easily be proved wrong about… and thus lessen the case against **Plum**? That plus the sparring with **DiggitCamara** put him in the “town” file for me. But I have made many “newbie” mistakes in this game… so what’s a few more posted here?🙂 One final note, if it does come down to three players at the end, the wolf player could try and engineer a three-way tie. How ironic that all this “pro-town tie-breaker rule” craziness of our game could ultimately be what might win it for the wolves! ---
**Author:** ![Plumpudding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Plumpudding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumpudding)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/271 "2015-09-03T08:38:13Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > I didn’t do great by you. I was weak when I needed to be strong. Kicked myself for two real days after your lynch. Me dying didn’t prove to be fatal for town and that’s what is important. You had my back for most of the game, though, and I appreciate that. I think I would have been lynched a lot sooner if not for that. You’ve had a great game and you’ve been very valuable to town, if we win you have played a big part in that. ---
**Author:** ![Dante\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@Dante\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dante_G)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/272 "2015-09-03T11:16:21Z")
From my experiences, Biotop, anything posted in the actual game thread could be used against you. Even during the night phase where we aren’t supposed to be concocting any kind of strategies amongst ourselves, I think you would have to be a fool to post something out of character that would implicate you. The whole concept is to maintain your innocence until the very end, even if that involves misleading and misdirecting. You did good my friend. Have fun with the next game. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/273 "2015-09-03T12:35:22Z")
In any case where the last Wolf could force a three-way tie, that same wolf could instead just get a straight majority on a Townie. A win at three-handed requires that the two genuine Townies agree on the Wolf. As to why the Scum didn’t kill you yesterDay, we still don’t know. They might have been trying to cast suspicion on you, but if so, that’s a reflection of an inexperienced Scum team, because there really wasn’t any way that could work out for them. And you should never conclude anyone’s probably Town based just on one data point, unless it’s an extremely strong one (like a detective investigation). Maybe a wolf just had a clever idea to look Townie. And you also can’t say “Well, so-and-so wouldn’t have thought of a trick like that”, because the idea might have come from a different wolf. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/274 "2015-09-03T13:46:34Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > - Was it OK to look at **Sario** ’s profile to see when he last logged on and thus infer that he had been reading but not posting? Was his objection to this fair or not? > > - Would it have been OK to notice if a player’s “green light” went out right after the EOD? Because if I was scum, I’d probably be hopping over to the Scum Board as soon as Day ended, and I might just log out. If I was town, perhaps I am going to be posting in other threads. No real proof of anything…but suggestive. Legit or not? > > - While we are not supposed to post anything of substance at Night, was it fair for us to nevertheless draw conclusions from\* other player’s posts\* made at Night? [snip] > > - On the other hand, if a wolf post’s “Hurrah” at Night over a scum lynch, he is actively posting deception at Night. So what’s the verdict? Can wolves post trickery at Night, but not town? I am not a game moderator and can only give you my opinion. Your first two points are exactly why lo these many years ago, I set my account to invisible mode and never looked back. I always appear offline. I see no reason not to draw inferences from players’ posts but at best they’re a data point and I wouldn’t lean very strongly on “So and So is totes scum gloating Night 3!” If wolves couldn’t post misleading things at night about mourning town losses and glee at scum deaths then just have everyone post a comment about the lynch and work your way through the non-commenters. I’ve always interpreted fluff nights as meaning no reveals of information, no strategy and no dissection of the previous days events. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/275 "2015-09-03T13:58:20Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > - Was it OK to look at **Sario** ’s profile to see when he last logged on and thus infer that he had been reading but not posting? Was his objection to this fair or not? This point is entirely a matter of opinion and not objective fact. Personally, I think it is fine. I believe I’ve seen players (on another board) turn off the status indicator for this reason. > [@](#): > > - Would it have been OK to notice if a player’s “green light” went out right after the EOD? Because if I was scum, I’d probably be hopping over to the Scum Board as soon as Day ended, and I might just log out. If I was town, perhaps I am going to be posting in other threads. No real proof of anything…but suggestive. Legit or not? It’s okay in my opinion. I question the accuracy of doing so, but I don’t see why you couldn’t. > [@](#): > > - While we are not supposed to post anything of substance at Night, was it fair for us to nevertheless draw conclusions from\* other player’s posts\* made at Night? For instance, **Plum** ’s “exciting” comment after Day 1 was made at Night, and some of us incorrectly read scumminess from that post. **DiggitCamara** did not post a “Hurrah!” comment after we lynched **Sario** , and I read wolfishness from that non-post. I also misread **Dante G** when he made his “homey” comment about **septimus** during the first Night. So are Night comments fair game as long as the player who is actually posting (or NOT posting) is not intentionally trying to hunt wolves or deceive town? Strictly speaking, there probably shouldn’t be any posting at Night at all. We generally allow it because otherwise the thread dies for two days while waiting for dawn. The posting is supposed to be ‘fluff’. I suppose I could argue that even a “yay” post is not 'fluff" but then we’re back to not posting anything at all anymore. I don’t know. I think using Night posts is fair game, but also think there should not be any night posts. And Wolves absolutely have to be deceptive at Night. It would be impossible and unfair to expect wolves to be honest at Night. > [@](#): > > - On the other hand, if a wolf post’s “Hurrah” at Night over a scum lynch, he is actively posting deception at Night. So what’s the verdict? Can wolves post trickery at Night, but not town? Wolves have to be allowed to lie at night. No posts is probably the cleanest solution. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/276 "2015-09-03T14:11:36Z")
Or just allow full-on discussion (without votes) at Night. And trying to learn anything from who’s online when is unlikely to work. Few people ever actively log out, no matter what they’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/277 "2015-09-03T14:34:33Z")
My thoughts on a final three: Say it is Alice, Bill, and Chris. Bill is the wolf. If I am Bill, no way am I going to vote first. If Bill first votes for Alice, then she has to vote for Bill in order for town to win. Then Chris decides. Barring anything else it is a 50% chance. But if Bill waits for Alice to vote, she may vote for Chris. If so, then Bill votes for Chris and the wolves win. If Alice votes for Bill, then Bill votes for Alice and it is still up to Chris. Waiting to vote gives the wolves an extra chance…or is my logic faulty here as well. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/278 "2015-09-03T15:12:59Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > My thoughts on a final three: > > Say it is Alice, Bill, and Chris. Bill is the wolf. > > If I am Bill, no way am I going to vote first. > > If Bill first votes for Alice, then she has to vote for Bill in order for town to win. Then Chris decides. Barring anything else it is a 50% chance. > > But if Bill waits for Alice to vote, she may vote for Chris. If so, then Bill votes for Chris and the wolves win. > > If Alice votes for Bill, then Bill votes for Alice and it is still up to Chris. > > Waiting to vote gives the wolves an extra chance…or is my logic faulty here as well. The onion has more layers. If I’m Alice, I might vote for one of them and wait to see what Chris and Bill do. If the one I’m not voting for votes right away, I would switch votes. If the one I am voting for gets defensive and tries to reason with me, I might switch votes too. Generally, I’m going to switch votes and see what the others do and say. Or I might sit back and watch what Chris and Bill do. There isn’t only one way to play it. Also, there is a posting history to contend with. **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies** famously was in a final 3 showdown and had to choose who was scum and who was not (she was a mason equivalent). She re-read the entire game (!) assuming one or the other was scum and voted for who made the most sense. She kicked ass. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/279 "2015-09-03T15:15:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Say it is Alice, Bill, and Chris. Bill is the wolf. > > If I am Bill, no way am I going to vote first. Whenever you say “no way is a wolf going to do” something, that’s a good reason for a wolf to do that thing. Also don’t forget that first of all, votes can be changed, and second, by the last Day, everyone probably already has a pretty good idea of how everyone else is going to vote. ---
**Author:** ![Sario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sario/32/18580_2.png) [@Sario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sario)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379/280 "2015-09-03T23:50:18Z")
> [@Biotop](#): > > - Would it have been OK to notice if a player’s “green light” went out right after the EOD? Because if I was scum, I’d probably be hopping over to the Scum Board as soon as Day ended, and I might just log out. If I was town, perhaps I am going to be posting in other threads. No real proof of anything…but suggestive. Legit or not? I see not ethical problem with it, but I would not put any stock in it as a tell. I personally usually had the wolf board open in a separate tab, so I would still be logged in to the SDMB. Also many people may check EOD and log off to move on to other things either on the internet or in real life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafia-watch-along-thread-no-spoilers-forbidden-to-live-players/725379.md?page=15)