# Mafiosi: In for life? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996 "2006-04-17T13:19:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/1 "2006-04-17T13:19:25Z")
I watched the Sopranos the other day, and I saw the subplot of one member that wanted out and had to get permission before he could retire. I think that that kind of stuff is gangland UL, just to make them seem more mysterious/intimidating/tough, etc… I’m sure that IRL there are a trillion wannabes that will be happy to take over a made man’s slot, and the higher ups don’t give a hang as long as a profit is being made. Is there any reliable info that addresses the issue? thanks, hh ---
**Author:** ![newcrasher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b3f665/32.png) [@newcrasher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcrasher)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/2 "2006-04-17T13:59:34Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > I watched the Sopranos the other day, and I saw the subplot of one member that wanted out and had to get permission before he could retire. > I think that that kind of stuff is gangland UL, just to make them seem more mysterious/intimidating/tough, etc… I’m sure that IRL there are a trillion wannabes that will be happy to take over a made man’s slot, and the higher ups don’t give a hang as long as a profit is being made. > Is there any reliable info that addresses the issue? > thanks, > hh IRL there is no such thing as the mafia… ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/3 "2006-04-17T14:03:22Z")
> [@newcrasher](#): > > IRL there is no such thing as the mafia… Yeah, right. Next thing you’ll be telling me is that the Sopranos is fiction! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2006, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/4 "2006-04-17T15:46:18Z")
Being in the mob means that the made guy has many responsibilities to uphold. One of them is to send some money up the chain. (Sometimes called “the vig” in movies. A related use is a bookie’s cut of bets.) A made guy who falls behind on his vig is in deep trouble. If a made guy knows he isn’t going to making his vig for a while, he might try to “retire.” This makes his bosses very unhappy. They want their money. So in order to retire, you have to clearly be retiring for valid reasons. There may be secondary reasons, e.g., the bosses needs the guy for particular jobs, etc. While there are a lot of guys who may want in, almost all of them are real losers. (All talk, no action types or really low IQ bozos.) One of the big troubles the mob has had in recent years is finding quality recruits. If you have a guy in your crew that has been doing a good job and providing money for several years, you’d be a fool to just let him walk away. **newcrasher** : any relation to J. Edgar Hoover? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/5 "2006-04-18T00:40:34Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > **newcrasher** : any relation to J. Edgar Hoover? I was looking for a similar witticism, but the ol’ brain gave out. :smack: Thanks for fine answers. hh ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/6 "2006-04-18T00:53:12Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > While there are a lot of guys who may want in, almost all of them are real losers. (All talk, no action types or really low IQ bozos.) One of the big troubles the mob has had in recent years is finding quality recruits. Hmm, I’ve been looking for employment lately. How do I set up an interview? ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/7 "2006-04-18T14:40:47Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Hmm, I’ve been looking for employment lately. How do I set up an interview? Have you filled out your application? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/8 "2006-04-18T16:36:31Z")
Ftg has the answer. The traditional mafia is a feudal system. The low level soldiers have their little schemes, and they pay their boss a cut from their schemes. And the boss pays his captain a cut of his take. And in return for this, the captain doesn’t have his bosses whacked, and the bosses don’t have the soldiers whacked. As Paulie Walnuts explained to Chris when he got made, “Now you don’t got any problems, except one, which is to pay me my weekly cut. And I don’t got any problems, except one, which is to pay Tony his weekly cut.” So if Chris doesn’t come up with his weekly payment, the Paulie won’t be able to make HIS weekly payment. If Chris decides to retire Paulie’s weekly payment isn’t going to be reduced, he’s still going to have to pay Tony the same amount. So “retiring” from the mafia just means that you aren’t going to be kicking money up the chain any more. And if you’re not kicking money up the chain any more, what good are you? You know too much. So if you want to retire you have to get permission or just disappear. When you’re no longer contributing money to your betters then you’re all liability and no upside. ---
**Author:** ![wnorthr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecccb3/32.png) [@wnorthr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wnorthr)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/9 "2006-04-18T20:05:20Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Ftg has the answer. The traditional mafia is a feudal system. The low level soldiers have their little schemes, and they pay their boss a cut from their schemes. And the boss pays his captain a cut of his take. And in return for this, the captain doesn’t have his bosses whacked, and the bosses don’t have the soldiers whacked. As Paulie Walnuts explained to Chris when he got made, “Now you don’t got any problems, except one, which is to pay me my weekly cut. And I don’t got any problems, except one, which is to pay Tony his weekly cut.” So if Chris doesn’t come up with his weekly payment, the Paulie won’t be able to make HIS weekly payment. If Chris decides to retire Paulie’s weekly payment isn’t going to be reduced, he’s still going to have to pay Tony the same amount. > > So “retiring” from the mafia just means that you aren’t going to be kicking money up the chain any more. And if you’re not kicking money up the chain any more, what good are you? You know too much. So if you want to retire you have to get permission or just disappear. When you’re no longer contributing money to your betters then you’re all liability and no upside. Is this how they do it in AMWAY too? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/10 "2006-04-18T20:34:26Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Being in the mob means that the made guy has many responsibilities to uphold. One of them is to send some money up the chain. (Sometimes called “the vig” in movies. A related use is a bookie’s cut of bets.) A made guy who falls behind on his vig is in deep trouble. If a made guy knows he isn’t going to making his vig for a while, he might try to “retire.” This makes his bosses very unhappy. They want their money. So in order to retire, you have to clearly be retiring for valid reasons. “[Vig](http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19960503)” is interest paid to loansharks. There is another term for the money sent up the chain, but I can’t find it in the [Mobspeak glossary](http://www.uta.fi/FAST/GC/mobspeak.html). Might be “tribute”, but I can’t confirm that. Other than that, good post. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/11 "2006-04-18T21:57:58Z")
> [@wnorthr](#): > > Is this how they do it in AMWAY too? Yes, but in the Mafia, you at least have a chance to get out. hh ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/12 "2006-04-18T22:21:36Z")
Indeed. I’d always heard/used “vig” as interested payed on a loan. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/13 "2006-04-18T22:28:38Z")
> [@Jayrot](#): > > Indeed. I’d always heard/used “vig” as interested payed on a loan. With the rates charged, it should be used on Visa/Mastercard statements. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/14 "2006-04-18T22:37:02Z")
What about Mafia bosses? Do they ever have any trouble retiring? ---
**Author:** ![vetbridge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/15 "2006-04-18T22:46:26Z")
There is a way to get out of the Mafia. It is called the Witness Protection Program. ---
**Author:** ![Jayrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Jayrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayrot)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/16 "2006-04-18T22:54:51Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > With the rates charged, it should be used on Visa/Mastercard statements. Although, you can generally reason with the mob… ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/17 "2006-04-19T02:26:35Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > “[Vig](http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=19960503)” is interest paid to loansharks. There is another term for the money sent up the chain, but I can’t find it in the [Mobspeak glossary](http://www.uta.fi/FAST/GC/mobspeak.html). Might be “tribute”, but I can’t confirm that. > > Other than that, good post. As I noted, it does have several applications. In general it means a cut taken of somebody’s money. The most [common use](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vig) is the “juice” or commision on bets. [Here’s](http://btobsearch.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?z=y&btob=Y&pwb=1&ean=9781560255598) a review of a mafioso’s book that quotes using the term in the context I gave. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/18 "2006-04-19T14:06:53Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > As I noted, it does have several applications. In general it means a cut taken of somebody’s money. The most [common use](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vig) is the “juice” or commision on bets. > > [Here’s](http://btobsearch.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbninquiry.asp?z=y&btob=Y&pwb=1&ean=9781560255598) a review of a mafioso’s book that quotes using the term in the context I gave. From the link: > [@](#): > > If I wasn’t with any crew, I could move around and not answer to anyone." He made money and paid the **vig** to whoever controlled the turf-and what a turf it was, from drugs to cigarettes to car thefts, but most fascinatingly on Wall Street, where Saggio figured out how to “get a hook into a firm, bring the wiseguys in, and the exploit the situation.” Not that I’m in tight with any mafioso types, but that’s the first time I’ve read the term used like that. Don’t know if it is a transcriber’s or an editor’s error putting together the book, or if it is an accurate quote. I’m certainly not disputing the use by bookies; there we are in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/19 "2006-04-19T15:04:21Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > The low level soldiers have their little schemes, and they pay their boss a cut from their schemes. And the boss pays his captain a cut of his take. The boss is above the captains. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2006, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996/20 "2006-04-19T15:07:14Z")
> [@vetbridge](#): > > There is a way to get out of the Mafia. It is called the Witness Protection Program. Or you can leave through the small hole they’ll gladly put in the back of your head. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mafiosi-in-for-life/352996.md?page=2)