# magellan01 - epitome of racist Republican **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975 "2014-03-18T02:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/241 "2014-03-20T13:54:31Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I’m not saying I have some problem with amnesty on its own, but if you declare broad amnesty for millions of people from a law, and then put your foot down and say you’re going to enforce the law from now on, whose going to believe you? I don’t understand what you’re objecting to. Step 1: Broad amnesty for currently-illegal immigrants Step 2: Modification of laws so that future immigrants do not have to sneak into the U.S., i.e. rapid-check work visas and such. I don’t know where foot-stomping enters into it. Sure, I’ll recognize the need for refinement, i.e. don’t just casually declare an amnesty for everyone sight-unseen, but grant it quickly to anyone who steps forward and meets reasonable criteria, i.e. employment history and/or school enrollment. > [@](#): > > We have laws now that we’re not enforcing very well, and amnesty would signal capitulation. Or just recognition of reality. > [@](#): > > I think a compromise is possible - amnesty plus tough new laws and enforcement mechanisms - that would pass Congress and actually work. Well, not _this_ Congress. You might have to go through two or three new Congrii before getting one that can manage this. > [@](#): > > But amnesty alone won’t do the trick, politically or practically. Then don’t do amnesty alone, as I have suggested (indeed, opened with). ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/242 "2014-03-20T14:03:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t understand what you’re objecting to. > > Step 1: Broad amnesty for currently-illegal immigrants > Step 2: Modification of laws so that future immigrants do not have to sneak into the U.S., i.e. rapid-check work visas and such. So you just open the borders? No limits on immigration? Where’s the step that keeps those who we don’t want to enter the country from getting in? If you don’t want any limits, why even have work visas? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/243 "2014-03-20T14:17:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Here’s an [irrational attack](http://www.snopes.com/photos/politics/bushbook.asp) against then-President Bush: I propose a “snopes test”, where anyone who repeats an outrageous story about a president be compelled to check [snopes.com](http://snopes.com) first or… I dunno, some kind of internet punishment, I guess. A dick picture on their facebook page, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/244 "2014-03-20T14:19:34Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So you just open the borders? No limits on immigration? NAFTA did it for money. Adam Smith and John Locke helped end our feudalistic attitudes toward capital, but we maintain our feudalistic attitudes toward humans. > [@](#): > > Where’s the step that keeps those who we don’t want to enter the country from getting in? If you don’t want any limits, why even have work visas? It’s possible to focus on keeping out criminals without having the sort of insanely draconian attitudes toward otherwise law-abiding folks that we currently have. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/245 "2014-03-20T14:23:38Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I propose a “snopes test”, where anyone who repeats an outrageous story about a president be compelled to check [snopes.com](http://snopes.com) first or… I dunno, some kind of internet punishment, I guess. A dick picture on their facebook page, or something. But Snopes is obviously a left-wing, biased source. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/246 "2014-03-20T14:24:55Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So you just open the borders? No limits on immigration? No, but if you really really love your wild leaps, then for the purposes of this discussion I’ll say “sure” just to see your reaction. Sure, dismantle the borders, that’s EXACTLY what I’m proposing. In fact, I’m 100% absolutely no-joke utterly and eternally serious (well, for the purposes of this discussion) in proposing that all national borders everywhere be dissolved. Your move, Sherlock. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/247 "2014-03-20T14:27:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I propose a “snopes test”, where anyone who repeats an outrageous story about a president be compelled to check [snopes.com](http://snopes.com) first or… I dunno, some kind of internet punishment, I guess. A dick picture on their facebook page, or something. It’s been more than a decade since last I touched a bit of code but I remain convinced one day, very soon, I shall become immensely rich by inventing a way to dope slap people through the Internet. Although I would settle for remotely installing a “random goatse” backdoor (heh). ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/248 "2014-03-20T14:28:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > NAFTA did it for money. Adam Smith and John Locke helped end our feudalistic attitudes toward capital, but we maintain our feudalistic attitudes toward humans. Yup. The most basic Intro Econ class will make it clear that human capital is capital, but all of our policymaking is oriented toward other forms. If we can open up our economic borders with our neighbors, we can open our physical borders. 'Course, that begs the question that NAFTA was a net positive… ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/249 "2014-03-20T14:52:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > No, but if you really really love your wild leaps, then for the purposes of this discussion I’ll say “sure” just to see your reaction. Sure, dismantle the borders, that’s EXACTLY what I’m proposing. In fact, I’m 100% absolutely no-joke utterly and eternally serious (well, for the purposes of this discussion) in proposing that all national borders everywhere be dissolved. > Your move, Sherlock. I just asked a question. Your post sure sounded like you wouldn’t have any limits. You said you’d make legal entry easier “so people wouldn’t have to sneak in.” That doesn’t seem to leave much room for barring entry. Get over yourself. Now, I’ll try one more time - what kind of measures, if any, would you propose that would result in people who are NOT authorized to enter the country not being able to sneak in? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/250 "2014-03-20T14:54:11Z")
> [@andros](#): > > 'Course, that begs the question that NAFTA was a net positive… Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine. > **[Begging the question](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question)** > > In classical rhetoric and logic, begging the question or assuming the conclusion (Latin: petītiō principiī) is an informal fallacy that occurs when an argument's premises assume the truth of the conclusion. Historically, begging the question refers to a fault in a dialectical argument in which the speaker assumes some premise that has not been demonstrated to be true. In modern usage, it has come to refer to an argument in which the premises assume the conclusion without supporting it. This mak... ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/251 "2014-03-20T14:58:25Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I just asked a question. No, you careened wildly from one wild extreme to another. Me: [proposal] You: So you’re suggesting [extreme exaggerated application of proposal]? Me: No, I’m suggesting [proposal]. You: So you’re suggesting [extreme opposite exaggerated application of proposal]? You might be attempting some kind of rope-a-dope, or you might just be dumb. Six of one, half-dozen of the other… > [@](#): > > Now, I’ll try one more time - I won’t though. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/252 "2014-03-20T15:00:46Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine. > > [http://begthequestion.info/](http://begthequestion.info/) No need to apologize for your pet peeves. However, I used the term quite correctly. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/253 "2014-03-20T15:15:16Z")
> [@andros](#): > > No need to apologize for your pet peeves. However, I used the term quite correctly. Sigh. No, you didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/254 "2014-03-20T15:16:33Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > No, you careened wildly from one wild extreme to another. > > Me: [proposal] > You: So you’re suggesting [extreme exaggerated application of proposal]? > Me: No, I’m suggesting [proposal]. > You: So you’re suggesting [extreme opposite exaggerated application of proposal]? > > You might be attempting some kind of rope-a-dope, or you might just be dumb. Six of one, half-dozen of the other… > > I won’t though. Good. You’re making a ridiculous thing out of a legitimate question and you aren’t willing to try to understand it. Let’s end this. It’s off topic anyway. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/255 "2014-03-20T15:22:09Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Sigh. No, you didn’t. **LHOD** used NAFTA as an example. Implicit in that example was the assumption that NAFTA was a positive thing. That appears to be a begged question. Please advise. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/256 "2014-03-20T15:22:10Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Good. You’re making a ridiculous thing out of a legitimate question and you aren’t willing to try to understand it. Let’s end this. It’s off topic anyway. Heh, attack your opponent of doing what you’re doing. Classic. Anyway, on-topic… magellan’s a jerk. That’s pretty much a complete summary. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/257 "2014-03-20T15:33:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Heh, attack your opponent of doing what you’re doing. Classic. You clearly misunderstood me. You clearly don’t want to understand. So it’s over. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/258 "2014-03-20T15:35:44Z")
> [@andros](#): > > **LHOD** used NAFTA as an example. Implicit in that example was the assumption that NAFTA was a positive thing. That appears to be a begged question. Please advise. Ah, I see what you intended to say now. My apologies. Thank you for using the term correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/259 "2014-03-20T15:50:08Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > You clearly misunderstood me. You clearly don’t want to understand. So it’s over. Compared to you, I’m a lunar view. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/260 "2014-03-20T15:52:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Compared to you, I’m a lunar view. Let go, Bryan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975.md?page=14)