# magellan01 - epitome of racist Republican **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975 "2014-03-18T02:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/481 "2014-03-26T20:33:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Using this metric, no one ever deserve the credit for anything they ever do? To make the statement un-stupid you have to expand it’s meaning to be meaningless. It’s one or the other. You choose. LOL. The statement is factually true – business owners did not create their businesses in a vacuum. There was always help, and there will always be help, which takes nothing away from business owners. Admitting that one did not accomplish something alone takes away no credit at all. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/482 "2014-03-26T20:35:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But you have to admit: “You didn’t build that,” has a very negative ring to it. Yes, for political reasons, he should have worded it differently. It was a boneheaded campaign move, because it gave an easy out-of-context soundbite to his opponent. Obama is a very capable politician, but he’s far from perfect. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/483 "2014-03-26T20:37:42Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Not quite. > > It’s like when the mafia guy informs you that as a result of what he’s done for you he’s a “partner” in your business, and deserves a bigger “share”. > > Slippery slope, yes. Fallacy, no. This is all fine, but it has nothing to do with what Obama said. It’s not a matter of “deserves” for why taxes on higher incomes should be higher, it’s a matter of “what’s the best way to accomplish these goals”. It’s arguable, sure, but there’s none of this “the government deserves more money” stuff in what Obama was saying. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/484 "2014-03-26T20:39:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But in fact, he did say that someone else made it happen – can you explain how that doesn’t seek to re-direct some of the credit? For the infrastructure? Of course, we all get the credit for the infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/485 "2014-03-26T20:39:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is all fine, but it has nothing to do with what Obama said. It’s not a matter of “deserves” for why taxes on higher incomes should be higher, it’s a matter of “what’s the best way to accomplish these goals”. It’s arguable, sure, but there’s none of this “the government deserves more money” stuff in what Obama was saying. I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you’re saying here. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/486 "2014-03-26T20:40:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Is this objectionable? > > “In troubled neighborhoods all across this country—many of them heavily African American—too few of our citizens have role models to guide them.” > > “We know that more than half of all black children live in single-parent households…. We know the statistics—that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of school and twenty times more likely to end up in prison.” > > “We know young black men are twice as likely as young white men to be ‘disconnected’—not in school, not working.” No, that is not objectionable. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/487 "2014-03-26T20:41:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Yes, for political reasons, he should have worded it differently. It was a boneheaded campaign move, because it gave an easy out-of-context soundbite to his opponent. I saw no evidence that Romney got any traction out of it, did you? If anything, the fact that the “Loyal” Opposition was so desperate to find something that \*this \*is all they could come with may have \*cemented \*some votes for Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/488 "2014-03-26T20:42:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > The context does not change the basic philosophical position. Whether it comes out Obama’s mouth or the mouth of Elizabeth Warren or some other progressive, the sentiment is not one that many people feel represents what America is about. No if you want to argue the merits of that particle piece of stupidity coming from either of those two, the debate has been had. Do a search. So you’re repeating the lie because you don’t know any better? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/489 "2014-03-26T20:43:58Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m sorry, I don’t understand what you’re saying here. I am arguing with your statement that Obama is saying that the government deserves a greater share of someone’s earnings. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/490 "2014-03-26T20:45:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > I saw no evidence that Romney got any traction out of it, did you? If anything, the fact that the “Loyal” Opposition was so desperate to find something that \*this \*is all they could come with may have \*cemented \*some votes for Obama. It wasn’t a huge deal, but it was still a gaffe, I think. It may not have caught on with many people because it was so obviously out of context, but politicians should still try to avoid slip ups like this (in the specific words used). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/491 "2014-03-26T20:51:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, that is not objectionable. Then explain how one is objectionable and the other isn’t. Both state negative facts about blacks. They are basically the same facts. Is it the speaker you’re objecting to? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/492 "2014-03-26T20:55:09Z")
You really don’t get it, do you? O’Reilly was objecting to “blame” being placed anywhere but on blacks themselves, since it’s obviously all on them (the implications for the reasons for that are clear enough to anyone familiar with the concept of context, which we know you are not). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/493 "2014-03-26T20:58:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You really don’t get it, do you? O’Reilly was objecting to “blame” being placed anywhere but on blacks themselves. That’s incorrect. He was objecting to blame being placed everywhere BUT on blacks themselves. There is a difference. > [@](#): > > Obama was not. Ah so Obama wasn’t blaming black fathers for abandoning their children, was he? He was just stating statistics, right? Those fathers are blameless. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/494 "2014-03-26T21:01:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I am arguing with your statement that Obama is saying that the government deserves a greater share of someone’s earnings. I still don’t understand what you were saying in that post. But in any event, I believe you’re wrong about what you’re saying here. Obama’s opening words in the part quoted here were about “wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back”. What do they agree with him about? Perhaps a fuller quote would be helpful, but until then, it sure looks like they agree that they should give more back than they’re already giving, and that’s also how I remember it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/495 "2014-03-26T21:09:17Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s incorrect. He was objecting to blame being placed everywhere BUT on blacks themselves. Which it isn’t. > [@](#): > > There is a difference. Like the difference between truth and lies. > [@](#): > > Ah so Obama wasn’t blaming black fathers for abandoning their children, was he? He was just stating statistics, right? Those fathers are blameless. Excluded middle. Are you just marching down a list of fallacies you saw somewhere, trying each one out just for fun? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/496 "2014-03-26T21:10:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Then explain how one is objectionable and the other isn’t. Both state negative facts about blacks. They are basically the same facts. Is it the speaker you’re objecting to? O’Reilly did not state facts, he said black people are bad parents. That’s not a fact. He said black people don’t have skills, and can’t speak, and can’t read. Those aren’t facts. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/497 "2014-03-26T21:11:43Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But in any event, I believe you’re wrong about what you’re saying here. Obama’s opening words in the part quoted here were about “wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me — because they want to give something back”. What do they agree with him about? That, essentially, we’re all in this together, and higher taxes on higher incomes may be necessary to accomplish necessary goals. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/498 "2014-03-26T21:13:50Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > O’Reilly did not state facts, he said black people are bad parents. No. He said “dissolution of the family, and …[no] proper supervision of children”. Which parallels what Obama said "more than half of all black children live in single-parent households…. We know the statistics—that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of school and twenty times more likely to end up in prison.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/499 "2014-03-26T21:17:18Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For the infrastructure? Of course, we all get the credit for the infrastructure. And no one would dispute that. So once we all get credit for the infrastructure—deservedly—each of us should enjoy the credit for those things that we might have done beyond it. Right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/500 "2014-03-26T21:19:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No. He said “dissolution of the family, and …[no] proper supervision of children”. > > Which parallels what Obama said "more than half of all black children live in single-parent households…. We know the statistics—that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of school and twenty times more likely to end up in prison.” That does not parallel what Obama said. Obama did not say black parents do not properly supervise their children; he didn’t say black people grow up with no skills, or can’t read and speak, or they have neck tattoos, etc. I noticed you left out chunks of O’Reilly’s quote. I wonder why? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975.md?page=26)