# magellan01 - epitome of racist Republican **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975 "2014-03-18T02:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/501 "2014-03-26T21:20:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > **magellan01** (and what a poor choice of name, the explorer \*wanted \*to learn new things), have you ever been exposed to the full context, or only the Fox version? [Here ya go, champ](http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/you-didnt-build-that-uncut-and-unedited/):Is there anything there you can disagree with? Or even understand? Yes. I agree with the notion that anyone other than the business owner “built his business”. No one disputes that, collectively we all build the infrastructure. And if the business owner does not open and build a business, he simply deserves the same credit as any who pays taxes. But once he takes the extra step to open and build a business, HE deserves that credit. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/502 "2014-03-26T21:24:44Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So you laugh derisively at me for about the dumbest thing imaginable (i.e., poorly characterizing a relationship, when I used your own words to characterize it). Oh, poor innocent little you. Buck up, princess and take responsibility. You obviously chose words to minimize their relationship—to the point of entering fantasy land. Funny thing is, that while we mostly disagree on things, I know you’re better than this. And also the general of your posts in the last few weeks. ::shrug:: ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/503 "2014-03-26T21:27:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That does not parallel what Obama said. Obama did not say black parents do not properly supervise their children; He said that black fathers abandon their children and because of that the children are more likely to live in poverty, commit crime and wind up in prison. You think that’s “proper supervision”? > [@](#): > > he didn’t say black people grow up with no skills, or can’t read and speak Obama said that due to the above abandonment by fathers, blacks are nine times more likely to drop out of school. You know, school, that teaches you skills and how to read and speak. > [@](#): > > or they have neck tattoos, etc. I have to give you that. Obama didn’t speak of neck tattoos. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/504 "2014-03-26T21:27:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Where’s the part about it being all their fault that they’re simply inferior and less worthy? Good question. Here’s the O’Reilly quote: [QUOTE=Bill O’Reilly] “And what’s going on, as you know, is the dissolution of the family, and you don’t have proper supervision of children, and they grow up with no skills, and they can’t read and speak, and they have tattoos on their neck, and they can’t compete in the marketplace, and that’s what’s going on!” [/QUOTE] Where’s the part about it being all their fault that they’re simply inferior and less worthy? > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Where’s the part about it being all their fault that they’re simply inferior and less worthy? > > Not all discussions about race are racist. Sometimes they’re about attempts to understand and fix problems, not cast blame. Exactly. Those are your words, so you do get it. Odd. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/505 "2014-03-26T21:41:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That, essentially, we’re all in this together, and higher taxes on higher incomes may be necessary to accomplish necessary goals. Higher than what? I think it means higher than what they’re paying now. The notion of abolishing progressive tax rates have not been on the table in any recent election, so that’s not something you would have to agree with Obama about if you accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/506 "2014-03-26T21:46:29Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But you have to admit: “You didn’t build that,” has a very negative ring to it. “That” in the original quote refers to infrastructure, and I don’t see what’s negative about the quote except to Galtists. > [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, poor innocent little you. Buck up, princess and take responsibility. You obviously chose words to minimize their relationship—to the point of entering fantasy land. > > Funny thing is, that while we mostly disagree on things, I know you’re better than this. And also the general of your posts in the last few weeks. ::shrug:: This is goddamned hilarious–you’re still gonna die on that hill, because you don’t know how to abandon a hill, no matter how dumb it is. And you’ve used this “you’re better than this” line on me before, to which I’ve responded: I know you’re not better than this. This sort of idiocy is how you operate. You’re not always quite this blatant about it, but it’s pretty much the best you got. So yeah, when your idiocy is funny, sure thing I’ll point it out for other’s amusement. As such, your opinion about what I’m better than is profoundly uncareaboutable. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/507 "2014-03-26T21:47:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Slippery slope is always a fallacy. [No. You are wrong.](http://www.csun.edu/%7Edgw61315/fallacies.html#Slippery%20slope) (bolding mine) [QUOTE=Reality] Slippery slope. **A slippery slope argument is not always a fallacy.** A slippery slope fallacy is an argument that says adopting one policy or taking one action will lead to a series of other policies or actions also being taken, without showing a causal connection between the advocated policy and the consequent policies. A popular example of the slippery slope fallacy is, “If we legalize marijuana, the next thing you know we’ll legalize heroin, LSD, and crack cocaine.” This slippery slope is a form of non sequitur, because no reason has been provided for why legalization of one thing leads to legalization of another. Tobacco and alcohol are currently legal, and yet other drugs have somehow remained illegal. There are a variety of ways to turn a slippery slope fallacy into a valid (or at least plausible) argument. All you need to do is provide some reason why the adoption of one policy will lead to the adoption of another. For example, you could argue that legalizing marijuana would cause more people to consider the use of mind-altering drugs acceptable, and those people will support more permissive drug policies across the board. An alternative to the slippery slope argument is simply to point out that the principles espoused by your opposition imply the acceptability of certain other policies, so if we don’t like those other policies, we should question whether we really buy those principles. For instance, if the proposing team argued for legalizing marijuana by saying, “individuals should be able to do whatever they want with their own bodies,” the opposition could point out that that principle would also justify legalizing a variety of other drugs – so if we don’t support legalizing other drugs, then maybe we don’t really believe in that principle. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/508 "2014-03-26T22:12:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Higher than what? Higher than nothing, which is what GE pays. Or at least higher than Warren Buffett’s secretary. For examples. Obama was calling for basic fairness in the tax code and its enforcement. Only in the fantasyland that is today’s Republican Party could that be objectionable, and even the centerpiece of a convention. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/509 "2014-03-26T22:15:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And no one would dispute that. So once we all get credit for the infrastructure—deservedly—each of us should enjoy the credit for those things that we might have done beyond it. Right? So why do you dispute it anyway? Out of sheer ignorance of what he actually said? Ignorance born of sheer bone-laziness that prevents you from basic Googling? Or ignorance born of simple absolute mindless partisan loyalty? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/510 "2014-03-26T22:18:34Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > So why do you dispute it anyway? Out of sheer ignorance of what he actually said? Ignorance born of sheer bone-laziness that prevents you from basic Googling? Or ignorance born of simple absolute mindless partisan loyalty? What are you babbling about? You were talking about infrastructure. I agreed a=n that point. I’m now asking about beyond the collective accomplishment. Try rereading the exchange. What you’re saying is not tracking. You’re just repeating a point we’ve moved beyond. This is what I asked you at this pony in the conversation: [QUOTE=magellan01] So once we all get credit for the infrastructure—deservedly—each of us should enjoy the credit for those things that we might have done beyond it. Right? [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/511 "2014-03-26T23:02:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > He said that black fathers abandon their children and because of that the children are more likely to live in poverty, commit crime and wind up in prison. You think that’s “proper supervision”? Obama didn’t say “black fathers abandon their children”. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/512 "2014-03-26T23:03:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And no one would dispute that. So once we all get credit for the infrastructure—deservedly—each of us should enjoy the credit for those things that we might have done beyond it. Right? Of course. This doesn’t dispute anything Obama said. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/513 "2014-03-26T23:10:57Z")
OK, [here’s](http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/07/13/remarks-president-campaign-event-roanoke-virginia) the full text of his speech. The context was his call to not extend the Bush tax cuts to those making over $250K. > [@](#): > > But you know what, I’m not going to see us gut the investments that grow our economy to give tax breaks to me or Mr. Romney or folks who don’t need them. So I’m going to reduce the deficit in a balanced way. We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more. (Applause.) And, by the way, we’ve tried that before – a guy named Bill Clinton did it. We created 23 million new jobs, turned a deficit into a surplus, and rich people did just fine. We created a lot of millionaires. > > There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me – because they want to give something back. […] ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/514 "2014-03-26T23:17:22Z")
> [@](#): > > And no one would dispute that. So once we all get credit for the infrastructure—deservedly—each of us should enjoy the credit for those things that we might have done beyond it. Right? > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > Of course. This doesn’t dispute anything Obama said. Okay. So, we all share in the infrastructure, and we deserve the credit for anything above and beyond that. Well, a person’s business is one of those things that is above and beyond it. So, you seem to actually agree that when referring to a person’s business, that saying, “You didn’t build that” is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/515 "2014-03-26T23:19:09Z")
There are a lot of things that would be incorrect if anyone had actually said them. That is one. Was that an attempt at a coherent point of some kind? That’s so cute! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/516 "2014-03-26T23:26:50Z")
Are we playing “two year old out-of-context quotes turned buzzwords” or something ? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/517 "2014-03-26T23:30:23Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Are we playing “two year old out-of-context quotes turned buzzwords” or something ? If you’re talking about the Obama quote, I’m talking about it within context of the rest of what he said. Everyone seems to agree on the larger point, about the infrastructure. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/518 "2014-03-26T23:33:01Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There are a lot of things that would be incorrect if anyone had actually said them. That is one. > > Was that an attempt at a coherent point of some kind? That’s so cute! You quoted a question of mine—twice—and didn’t answer it either time. Let’s try for a third: [QUOTE=magellan01] And no one would dispute that. So once we all get credit for the infrastructure—deservedly—each of us should enjoy the credit for those things that we might have done beyond it. Right? [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/519 "2014-03-27T00:10:27Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Okay. So, we all share in the infrastructure, and we deserve the credit for anything above and beyond that. Well, a person’s business is one of those things that is above and beyond it. So, you seem to actually agree that when referring to a person’s business, that saying, “You didn’t build that” is incorrect. Right. And Obama wasn’t referring to a person’s business. In context, he was referring to infrastructure when he said “you didn’t build that”, not anyone’s business. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/520 "2014-03-27T00:16:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Okay. So, we all share in the infrastructure, and we deserve the credit for anything above and beyond that. Well, a person’s business is one of those things that is above and beyond it. So, you seem to actually agree that when referring to a person’s business, that saying, “You didn’t build that” is incorrect. In case anyone’s confused and not just lying, here’s Obama’s paragraph: > [@Obama](#): > > "If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business – you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. If you read the sentences before and after and think “that” in “you didn’t build that” references “a business,” you’re an idiot. Which is of course entirely plausible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975.md?page=27)