# magellan01 - epitome of racist Republican **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975 "2014-03-18T02:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/521 "2014-03-27T00:28:48Z")
[Here’s Politifact on the subject](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jul/26/mitt-romney/putting-mitt-romneys-attacks-you-didnt-build-truth/). ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/522 "2014-03-27T01:55:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Right. And Obama wasn’t referring to a person’s business. In context, he was referring to infrastructure when he said “you didn’t build that”, not anyone’s business. > [@](#): > > "If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. \*\*If you’ve got a business – you didn’t build that. \*\*Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. Hope that clears up your confusion. Everyone fully understands the larger context. But his comment, even in context, shows a philosophy, as I said, that for many Americans is at adds with what the country stands for. The argument that Obama wasn’t referring to “business” is wanting. For that explanation to make sense, one would have to think that Obama was correcting the notion that conservatives believed that they, in fact, built the infrastructure. This makes little sense. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/523 "2014-03-27T02:03:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Hope that clears up your confusion. > > Everyone fully understands the larger context. But his comment, even in context, shows a philosophy, as I said, that for many Americans is at adds with what the country stands for. The argument that Obama wasn’t referring to “business” is wanting. For that explanation to make sense, one would have to think that Obama was correcting the notion that conservatives believed that they, in fact, built the infrastructure. This makes little sense. At worst, his comments say that successful businesses are only successful because they have the advantages society and government provides. You can disagree, but it’s not a radical or un-American idea. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/524 "2014-03-27T02:08:01Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Hope that clears up your confusion. > > Everyone fully understands the larger context. But his comment, even in context, shows a philosophy, as I said, that for many Americans is at adds with what the country stands for. The argument that Obama wasn’t referring to “business” is wanting. For that explanation to make sense, one would have to think that Obama was correcting the notion that conservatives believed that they, in fact, built the infrastructure. This makes little sense. What is clear to me is that the conservatives that twisted the words of the president had precisely the idea to implant in others the caricature that you are pointing here. In the end one has to go for what the president clarified, other speculations are just spin. > **['You Didn't Build That,' Uncut and Unedited - FactCheck.org](https://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/you-didnt-build-that-uncut-and-unedited/)** > > Mitt Romney and his allies have attacked President Barack Obama — often out of context — for saying, “If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.” American Crossroads posted a 60-second Web video called “Build”... > [@](#): > > If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet. > > **The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.** > [@](#): > > There’s no question Obama inartfully phrased those two sentences, but it’s clear from the context what the president was talking about. He spoke of government — including government-funded education, infrastructure and research — assisting businesses to make what he called “this unbelievable American system that we have.” > > In summary, he said: “The point is … that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together.” > [@](#): > > Update, July 24: After we posted this item, the Obama campaign said the president was referring to the construction of roads and bridges when he said “you didn’t build that.” (Again, the president said: “Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that.”) The campaign also posted a new Web video in which the narrator says, “Actually, he was talking about building ‘infrastructure and education’ … ‘not that individuals don’t build their businesses.’ ” We don’t know what the president had in mind when he uttered those words, and his intent is not clear. Regardless, our conclusion is the same: Taking snippets of his speech ignores the larger context of the president’s meaning that a business owner does not become successful “on your own.” > > – Eugene Kiely ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/525 "2014-03-27T02:08:47Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > If you’re talking about the Obama quote, I’m talking about it within context of the rest of what he said. Everyone seems to agree on the larger point, about the infrastructure. It wasn’t just about “infrastructure”, unless one extends the term beyond any semblance of meaning. His point was that no man is an island entire of itself. Whether it’s teachers, friends, inspirations, supports, we all get there together and there’s no such thing as a self-made man. And, in a narrower context, that the “me myself and I, mine, mine, MINE !” crowd should maybe shut the fuck up a bit. So that backfired a bit, granted. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/526 "2014-03-27T02:17:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > For that explanation to make sense, one would have to think that Obama was correcting the notion that conservatives believed that they, in fact, built the infrastructure. This makes little sense. That is, indeed, exactly the notion he was correcting. I agree it makes little sense, but then, nothing about the modern Republican Party makes much sense these days. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/527 "2014-03-27T05:18:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > That is, indeed, exactly the notion he was correcting. I agree it makes little sense, but then, nothing about the modern Republican Party makes much sense these days. I never heard a conservative or republican voice that opinion. Can you point to any conservative or republican who believes that THEY built the infrastructure? As you say, it makes little sense. Little sense that Obama are anyone else would think that that attitude had to be corrected. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/528 "2014-03-27T05:23:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > What is clear to me is that the conservatives that twisted the words of the president had precisely the idea to implant in others the caricature that you are pointing here. In the end one has to go for what the president clarified, other speculations are just spin. > > ['You Didn't Build That,' Uncut and Unedited - FactCheck.org](http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/you-didnt-build-that-uncut-and-unedited/) Oh, just go to even Wikipedia and you can find people arguing both sides of the issue. You’re not proving anything here other than there exist some people who agree with your position. There was even the guy from [Salon.com](http://Salon.com), and another from The Atlantic who agreed with my interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/529 "2014-03-27T05:28:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Using this metric, no one ever deserve the credit for anything they ever do? To make the statement un-stupid you have to expand it’s meaning to be meaningless. It’s one or the other. You choose. Right-wingers are so amusing with their black-and-white reasoning, and slippery slope arguments. _Point out that taxpayers built roads?_ “So the taxpayers deserve credit for anything anyone ever did!” _Raise a tax rate from 18% to 19%?_ “So you want to steal every dollar I have!” Your approach is lazy: Black-and-white “reasoning” eliminates the need to think. > [@Bricker](#): > > But you have to admit: “You didn’t build that,” has a very negative ring to it. Anyone will sound like a fool when clauses are taken out of context. Hillary was pilloried for a half-sentence that implied she wasn’t interested in solving Benghazi, despite that the complete sentence had the opposite meaning. I would have thought you were smart enough to know that, **Brickhead**. Yet you join the liars and ignoramuses to celebrate the taking-out-of-context of a man you’re not fit to lick the boots of. This reminds us once again that you’re 100% partisan bullshit, 0% sincere or competent thought. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/530 "2014-03-27T05:30:08Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > At worst, his comments say that successful businesses are only successful because they have the advantages society and government provides. You can disagree, but it’s not a radical or un-American idea. But then what’s the difference between a successful business and an unsuccessful business? If Person A and Person B both open a Widget company on the same day, on opposite ends of the big city where there is plenty and identical opportunity, and one succeeds and one fails, whose fault is it If Person A fails? Is it the owner? Or is it the owner and “society”. If Person B succeeds, who deserves the credit for it making decisions that differed from Person A’s business? I say it’s the owner, not the owner + society". You might as well credit the Big Bang, as well. And the Oxygen. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/531 "2014-03-27T05:35:06Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Right-wingers are so amusing with their black-and-white reasoning, and slippery slope arguments. _Point out that taxpayers built roads?_ “So the taxpayers deserve credit for anything anyone ever did!” _Raise a tax rate from 18% to 19%?_ “So you want to steal every dollar I have!” > > Your approach is lazy: Black-and-white “reasoning” eliminates the need to think. Your approach is dishonest. No one would have a problem with the statement, “taxpayers built roads”. The problem is with the statement “If you’ve got a business – you didn’t build that.” Everyone agrees who builds the roads. Everyone. The notion that Obama was correcting some misperception along those lines makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/532 "2014-03-27T06:04:23Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, just go to even Wikipedia and you can find people arguing both sides of the issue. You’re not proving anything here other than there exist some people who agree with your position. There was even the guy from [Salon.com](http://Salon.com), and another from The Atlantic who agreed with my interpretation. In this case we have the word of the speaker himself clarifying, your attempt at making you the one that can interpret better what Obama said is silly, pressing the issue after the one that made the remarks clarified virtually on the same day is really dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/533 "2014-03-27T06:55:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I never heard a conservative or republican voice that opinion. Can you point to any conservative or republican who believes that THEY built the infrastructure? As you say, it makes little sense. Little sense that Obama are anyone else would think that that attitude had to be corrected. Sorry, I was a little sloppy in my last post. That’s not what Obama is saying. He’s not saying that Republicans are claiming responsibility for the infrastructure, he’s saying Republicans are _ignoring_ the infrastructure. By constantly cutting taxes to help businesses, they’re in danger of hurting businesses by underfunding critical services that all businesses depend on. That’s his point - not that individual business owners aren’t responsible for their own success. He specifically says that small business owners _are_ responsible a few sentences later - but for \*any \*business to succeed, no matter how well or how poorly run, that infrastructure has to exist, and the Republicans aren’t going to take care of it. You may feel that’s an unfair characterization of the Republican attitude towards taxes. If you want to get angry at Obama for that, go ahead. At least you’ll be complaining about something he’s actually done, for a change. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/534 "2014-03-27T07:04:40Z")
I ask those who set a high bar for charges of racism to read the OP of the thread _Rumsfield claims a trained ape could manage war better than Obama_ and answer two questions: (1) Did Rumsfeld use the phrase “trained ape” to pander to racism? (2) What is the chance that **Charlie Wayne** is a racist? (I’m not asking if you could convict him of racism in a court of law, but how you privately assess the chance that his invective against President and First Lady is due in large part to their race.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/535 "2014-03-27T09:03:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Hope that clears up your confusion. There’s no confusion on this end. The “you didn’t build that” referred to the infrastructure part he was speaking of earlier, not the “if you’ve got a business”, even though it was next to the statement. This is clear if you read the whole quote. So no, Obama did not mean anyone didn’t build their business. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/536 "2014-03-27T11:20:06Z")
magellan’s putting a lot of effort into maintaining his misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/537 "2014-03-27T11:48:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > magellan’s putting a lot of effort into maintaining his misunderstanding. Seriously. The conversation at the time went something like this: GOP: Job creators! Job creators! 51% pay nothing! Tax the moochers, leave the job creators alone! Job creators create wealth! No taxes on job creators! Obama: You job creators can only create jobs because of the taxes everyone pays, because those taxes help us build infrastructure and hire teachers and stuff, so yeah, we’re gonna make you pay taxes. I mean, good job on creating jobs and all, appreesh, but don’t get ahead of yourselves. GOP: OMG OBAMA SAID JOB CREATORS DON’T CREATE JOBS! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/538 "2014-03-27T13:12:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Seriously. The conversation at the time went something like this: > > GOP: Job creators! Job creators! 51% pay nothing! Tax the moochers, leave the job creators alone! Job creators create wealth! No taxes on job creators! Can you name any conservative or republican who believes that job creators shouldn’t pay taxes? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/539 "2014-03-27T13:38:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Can you name any conservative or republican who believes that job creators shouldn’t pay taxes? No. Nor can I name any Republicans who think that sentences can be created without verbs. If that’s what you think is significant in my post, teh winnar is yuo. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/540 "2014-03-27T13:43:54Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Can you name any conservative or republican who believes that job creators shouldn’t pay taxes? I, _and you_, can name plenty who believe theirs shouldn’t be _raised_, since they’d then have less “incentive” to create jobs (and what are they waiting for meanwhile, hmm?). Plenty of them are paying little or nothing _already_. Those dots are close enough together that you can connect them yourself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975.md?page=28)