# magellan01 - epitome of racist Republican **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2014, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975 "2014-03-18T02:08:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/161 "2014-03-19T18:24:44Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Good then, lets be clear that you are not defending **magellan01**. You see, crackpots do grab from even feebler straws to tell themselves that you are defending them. I think I’ve been pretty clear to anyone who was following the thread. > [@](#): > > You have to take into account that your reply and the following post of \*\*Shodan \*\*made it look like if you were agreeing with the effort to distract about who the subject of the pit thread is. No I don’t. You need to take my words at face value and consider what they are responding to, and check if you don’t know. But I’m always happy to clarify if you aren’t sure or are mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/162 "2014-03-19T18:26:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > An afterthought occurs - since there’s a growing concern that there won’t be enough workers to support the now-retiring baby boomers, why not encourage immigration? The issue isn’t immigration, it’s legal vs. illegal immigration. Especially what to do with those people already here but unauthorized to be. You can’t have a coherent immigration policy otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/163 "2014-03-19T18:29:11Z")
So adjust the laws. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/164 "2014-03-19T18:40:16Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > So adjust the laws. Well, sure. What do we do with the 11 million currently here but not authorized? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/165 "2014-03-19T19:00:51Z")
Why don’t you tell us, Adolf? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/166 "2014-03-19T19:06:51Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Why don’t you tell us, Adolf? I would exterminate them, but only the brown ones. Is that racist? I hope not. (Note for clarity - this post is SARCASM). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/167 "2014-03-19T19:08:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, both still right.It does if illegal immigrants use them. No, Joe and you are still wrong, unless you’re saying that all funding to all churches, charities, hospitals, health centers, etc., in all of US history has gone to illegal immigrants. LOL. Is this the hill you’re dying on? 'Cause it’s a really silly hill. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/168 "2014-03-19T19:14:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No doubt, but that isn’t what Obama claimed. It’s not reasonable to demand that anytime there is the tiniest potential for a small amount of some funding to benefit an illegal immigrant that the President is lying if he says that a particular bill does not provide benefits for illegal immigrants. By that standard, pretty much every funding bill in American history has benefited illegal immigrants. And that’s just a silly sort of claim. Everyone knows what Joe Wilson meant – he was accusing the president (falsely) that the ACA actually has language meant to benefit illegal immigrants. This is false. The ACA does not benefit illegal immigrants, unless you are twisting things to meaninglessness in the sense that every spending bill might benefit an illegal immigrant somewhere. It’s a pathetic thing to hang your hat on. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/169 "2014-03-19T19:15:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It does if illegal immigrants use them. Sure, and that means funding for sidewalks, highways and law enforcement, to name a few, also “goes” to illegal immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/170 "2014-03-19T19:16:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s a pathetic thing to hang your hat on. It’s also hypocritical to stretch the truth so thinly in an attempt to accuse someone else of lying. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/171 "2014-03-19T20:17:02Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Please show me where Obama called it a penalty but not a tax, and then calling it a tax after the law passed. [Here](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/obama-in-2009-its-not-a-tax/). > [@](#): > > As I recall it, the Supreme Court called it a tax, not Obama. Or did the Obama administration call it a tax when arguing before the court? The Obama administration called it a tax when arguing before the court. > [@](#): > > But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.” [Cite.](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/health/policy/18health.html?_r=0) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/172 "2014-03-19T20:20:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [Here](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/obama-in-2009-its-not-a-tax/). > The Obama administration called it a tax when arguing before the court. > [Cite.](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/health/policy/18health.html?_r=0) > > Regards, > Shodan Thank you. I didn’t remember that the administration had argued it in court. I think it was silly to deny it in the first place, but that’s politics. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/173 "2014-03-19T20:21:27Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not reasonable to demand that anytime there is the tiniest potential for a small amount of some funding to benefit an illegal immigrant that the President is lying if he says that a particular bill does not provide benefits for illegal immigrants. What pisses me off is how many Republicans support things like [sending my tax dollars](http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/01/16/bills-open-military-to-some-illegal-immigrants.html) [to illegals](http://billmoyers.com/2013/07/19/what-does-the-immigration-bill-say-about-migrant-farmworkers/). iiandyiiii is absolutely right, **Shodan**. You’re right that Obama has said some things that are really hard to justify as anything other than a lie, but this ain’t one of them. The statement that these programs don’t go to help illegal immigrants can be understood as something from a formal logic course, in which case Obama is wrong; but it can also be understood in common parlance as saying that the funds aren’t intended to go to illegal immigrants and that non-extraordinary measures will be taken to verify that, in which case he’s right. Certainly there’s no indication of any intent to deceive on Obama’s part, and impartial observers agree. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/174 "2014-03-19T20:21:30Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No, Joe and you are still wrong, unless you’re saying that all funding to all churches, charities, hospitals, health centers, etc., in all of US history has gone to illegal immigrants. Neither Wilson nor I have ever said that all funding to churches or charities has gone to illegal immigrants, and your suggestion that we did is preposterous. Obama claimed that none of the funding would go to illegal immigrants. He was lying, because it has. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/175 "2014-03-19T20:28:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Obama claimed that none of the funding would go to illegal immigrants. He was lying, because it has. What funds exactly are you talking about going to illegal immigrants then? Make your case. Oh, yeah, also – you’re a racist! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/176 "2014-03-19T20:33:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What pisses me off is how many Republicans support things like [sending my tax dollars](http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/01/16/bills-open-military-to-some-illegal-immigrants.html) [to illegals](http://billmoyers.com/2013/07/19/what-does-the-immigration-bill-say-about-migrant-farmworkers/). You are, unsurprisingly, not making a lot of sense. You are apparently OK with Obamacare for illegal aliens, but letting them earn their citizenship by joining the military pisses you off? And I do not see how immigration reform constitutes sending tax dollars to illegals. > [@](#): > > iiandyiiii is absolutely right, **Shodan**. You’re right that Obama has said some things that are really hard to justify as anything other than a lie, but this ain’t one of them. No, he’s not, and yes, it is. If you expect Obama to be logical, he is lying. If you don’t expect him to be logical, then it is certainly possible to interpret any nonsense he spouts however you like. > [@](#): > > …it can also be understood in common parlance as saying that the funds aren’t intended to go to illegal immigrants and that non-extraordinary measures will be taken to verify that, in which case he’s right. He says they aren’t intended to, but we have already seen that they have. So he isn’t right. And they aren’t going to take even non-extraordinary methods to verify - the cite already mentioned that they make no effort to check immigration status. So if Obama claimed that, he was also wrong. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/177 "2014-03-19T20:39:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What pisses me off is how many Republicans support things like [sending my tax dollars](http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/01/16/bills-open-military-to-some-illegal-immigrants.html) [to illegals](http://billmoyers.com/2013/07/19/what-does-the-immigration-bill-say-about-migrant-farmworkers/). > > iiandyiiii is absolutely right, **Shodan**. You’re right that Obama has said some things that are really hard to justify as anything other than a lie, but this ain’t one of them. The statement that these programs don’t go to help illegal immigrants can be understood as something from a formal logic course, in which case Obama is wrong; but it can also be understood in common parlance as saying that the funds aren’t intended to go to illegal immigrants and that non-extraordinary measures will be taken to verify that, in which case he’s right. Certainly there’s no indication of any intent to deceive on Obama’s part, and impartial observers agree. My recollection is a bit fuzzy, but people had pointed out that the bill, as written, would in fact result in funds going to illegal immigrants. They wanted to eliminate that possibility. But the Dems didn’t want to make the change. So, it was not the expressed intent of the bill (supposedly, anyway), but it was a glitch in the way it was written. Still, the result was known beforehand and the administration didn’t take the steps to correct it. So, Joe Wilson was technically correct. Obama knew the reality yet speechified otherwise. I don’t think this excuses what Wilson did, but he was correct. That’s how I remember it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/178 "2014-03-19T20:50:04Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Obama claimed that none of the funding would go to illegal immigrants. He was lying, because it has. You can’t even tell the truth about who’s lying, can you? [Here’s the speech.](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/10/us/politics/10obama.text.html) Kindly identify the lie, so you can do more than mantrically chant “Obama lied!”. Here, I’ll even help. Is it this? “There are also those who claim that our reform effort will insure illegal immigrants. This, too, is false – the reforms I’m proposing would not apply to those who are here illegally.” That’s what made your hero Joe Wilson yell “You lie!”. And is there any need to even start the list of lies your guys have been telling for years, including today, about what the law is and what it does? Any comment from you about that? Putz. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/179 "2014-03-19T20:54:43Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Well, sure. > > What do we do with the 11 million currently here but not authorized? Amnesty comes to mind. You can choose to make it more difficult and punitive if you want, but I’m not especially persuaded of the benefit of doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975/180 "2014-03-19T20:57:21Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > An afterthought occurs - since there’s a growing concern that there won’t be enough workers to support the now-retiring baby boomers, why not encourage immigration? Or encourage our retirees to emigrate to Southeast Asia. > [@Shodan](#): > > Neither Wilson nor I have ever said that all funding to churches or charities has gone to illegal immigrants, and your suggestion that we did is preposterous. Obama claimed that none of the funding would go to illegal immigrants. He was lying, because it has. > > Regards, > Shodan Then its silly to call it a lie because there is some leakage. You are basically trying to defend a gross breach of protocol because the program funds some other program that provides free medical care at clinics where they won’t be checking for immigration status. Thats what you’re talking about right? > [@magellan01](#): > > My recollection is a bit fuzzy, but people had pointed out that the bill, as written, would in fact result in funds going to illegal immigrants. They wanted to eliminate that possibility. But the Dems didn’t want to make the change. So, it was not the expressed intent of the bill (supposedly, anyway), but it was a glitch in the way it was written. Still, the result was known beforehand and the administration didn’t take the steps to correct it. So, Joe Wilson was technically correct. Obama knew the reality yet speechified otherwise. I don’t think this excuses what Wilson did, but he was correct. That’s how I remember it anyway. We’re still talking about those free clinics right? So some Republicans wanted those free clinics to start checking immigration status as a condition of receiving funding (imagine that, now every poor person has to prove their citizenship before receiving free health care at a clinic, doctors literally have to turn away the sick until they can prove their citizenship) and the Democrats said “OMFG and YOU’RE the party that thinks over-regulation is a problem???!!!fuckityfuck fuck??!!!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magellan01-epitome-of-racist-republican/683975.md?page=10)