Just want to be clear that autistic people have the full range of human intelligence - some brilliant, some stupid, most in the middle. Some autistic people who don’t talk and who don’t even move much are highly intelligent and articulate, given usable communication tools. And some are not.
The notion that people with Down syndrome are always happy is a ridiculous myth.
Mine is more like Goering.
This is a really important test. Like, the deaf community may be a valuable and important community, but if you had the option to take a healthy child and deafen them to give them access to that community, nobody would take that choice. That’s part of how we can tell that one situation is worse than the other despite a clear bias towards the status quo.
If you had a neurotypical child, would you give them autism on purpose? Even if it was just minor, high-functioning autism? I wouldn’t, but then I’m weird and socially awkward and struggle daily to connect with other people (works some days, doesn’t on others) so I can understand how you might feel differently.
Well I wouldn’t “cure” my autistic daughter.
When I worked in the special ed department here we had some students with Down Syndrome and they had a whole lot of physical health issues. One eight year old died, I believe from a heart attack if I remember correctly. I always thought Down was more of a health issue so yes if that’s true sure I’d want my hypothetical child cured.
And if autism caused my daughter to have health issues sure I’d want that cured too. Why wouldn’t I? But she has no health issues related to autism so no, it wouldn’t be worth it to change her personality. Instead she goes to social skills group and peer support therapy and she went through play therapy and speech therapy and had modulated listening therapy and an IEP that helped the teachers help her and we have meetings every year so we can make sure the teachers and support staff all understand her individual needs because SHE doesn’t need a cure. She actually does just fine. Her worst issue is other people who think she’s broken. Her second worst issue is tactile sensitivity, which is “cured” by people understanding why she doesn’t wear bras and prefers shoes that are sensible and has no desire for long pants or jackets. I guess it would be nice if she could conform to society when it comes to her clothes but is it worth it to be indebted to a powerful magician?
Unfortunately, the temper issues have been there from the beginning, it’s just now with puberty looming on the near horizon with the accompanying growth spurts that it’s becoming much more of a concern. Even as a very young kid he’s always been quite big and strong–at age three I watched him throw a baseball over the garage. He’s basically a very sweet kid, but when he loses it he can do some damage and doesn’t have as much control over his temper as everyone would prefer. His dad has similar issues without the Down’s complicating things–he got his yayas out by doing three tours in Iraq as a Marine but that outlet isn’t available to his boy.
There was a local case a few years back where there was a large and violent autistic teen being transported to a mental hospital. He managed to get out of his restraints, past his attendant, and out the back of the ambulance. His escape went about as well as you would expect from someone jumping out of a vehicle traveling at 70 MPH or so.
Another for “damn betcha I would”. Not lightly or without thought but no question what I would do in the end. My reservation comes from knowing people to get life-altering treatments for conditions they were born with and the result not being all that great in terms of their future, and as someone said above age would come into play in my thoughts. But yes ------ in the end I think I would.
I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than have to have a frontal lobotomy.
As you know better than most, autism is a spectrum. You’re obviously on the high functioning end of the spectrum.
My daughter, on the other hand, is somewhere in the middle. I would certainly take a magic cure in return for being able to have a fully interactive conversation, and clearly discuss what she thinks, feels, dreams, wants to do in life. She may never get to where she can have that level of conversation. She’s a happy bunny, people like her, people have always been willing to help her, but to be able to have a deep conversation and understand what’s going on in her head – I’ll take that magic cure in a heartbeat. YMMV.
Autism and “functioning”:
https://www.autistichoya.com/2012/09/so-high-functioning-sarcasm.html
That is an interesting blog post and shares some insights. It doesn’t have any framework or alternative to “high functioning” other than doesn’t like the term…Got an alternative?
Pretty much my thoughts. “Autism” can mean “completely incapable of normal human functioning” or “not great in certain social situations some of the time” or anything in between. Quote Scott Alexander:
Low-functioning/high-functioning is problematic? Okay. But it’s also kinda necessary.
Wow, what a horror story. I know, “slippery slope” and all, but if somone’s very existence is such a constant nightmare to them that they have to be tied down at all times to restrain them from attempting to rip off their own face, then the only kind thing to do is probably to euthanise them.
I wouldn’t make a straight child gay either, does that mean being gay is worse, and something that should be ‘cured’? When it comes to someone else’s body and identity, you need a bloody good reason to try and change the status quo.
If cochlear implants were the magic cure the thread started off with, it would be one thing, but it’s not.
From the NHS, who are pretty unbiased about this sort of thing:
About 10% of people who get one show or report no improvement at all in their hearing.
2% have serious complications, including facial paralysis, meningitis and the tiny risk of death during anaesthesia.
13% have minor complications, including tinnitus increase and equipment faults that require a second surgery.
5% of implants fail within 15 years and need a second surgery to replace, plus some need replacing because the appropriate transmitters are no longer available.
‘Most’ recipients don’t end up with enough hearing to follow a conversation where they can’t lipread.
‘A few’ get good enough results that they can pick out one musical instrument from an orchestra, many only experience a wall of noise.
The transmitter needs charging overnight so someone with an implant still won’t be woken by a standard fire alarm or someone hammering on the door.
And for a bonus, with some implants, recipients can’t have MRIs, and will set off airport metal detectors and anti-theft machines in shops.
Quality of life studies run by the NHS suggest that it’s unclear is there’s a significant benefit for deaf children of deaf parents (these kids are also more likely to be in the 10% of people who show no benefit) as the main benefit is in reducing isolation, which is unlikely to be an issue for them. Guidelines say it should be offered to them, but not pushed.
I’m not anti-implant, one of my friends, born to hearing parents, has one and is happy with it, though he does have to lipread to understand and doesn’t enjoy music. But it ain’t a slam-dunk, ‘you’re a monster if you don’t get one for your baby’.
This almost describes my daughter, she can speak and answer questions, but she doesn’t have conversations with people. She got a lot of help in school with her IEP, and gets services from the local disabilities help community. If I could get her a magic cure and interact with her as China Guy talks about his daughter, I definitely would do so.
Let’s see–where did I put my worm can opener? (Rummage, rummage.)
While the stigma against Ls, Gs, and Bs is primarily societal, I’d bet that there are many Ts that would love to be able to wave a magic wand and have their minds and bodies match, in one direction or the other.
Probably, but would they be as happy about someone else waving the magic wand and deciding which direction?
The easy and quick answer is yes, absolutely. If I had a child with a disability that prevented them from exercising their freedoms and opportunities to the greatest extent, I would do whatever I could to eliminate that disability.
Autism/Asperger’s, hell yeah. I’ve never been diagnosed, but I’ve suspected I’m enough on the spectrum that it’s caused me enough problems with socializing that my life has had far more hardship than I would have preferred. When I “self diagnosed” I did not take that as a measure of what I was limited to, but rather, as a challenge to be met and defeated. I didn’t want to suffer from the effects of autism. I won’t say that I am cured, but I will say that I have limited its detrimental effects. If I could “cure” it entirely, I would in a heartbeat. This does have some level of stipulation, if the cure for autism is lobotomy, then no. But, if I could get my brain to work enough like normal for me to relate to others on a less superficial level, that’d be great.
As a 40 year old, I would make that decision for myself, but as a child, I would so much prefer that my guardian made that decision for me, rather than leave me to grow and develop my mind and body, but completely neglect social skills until I attained the legal age of majority to make that decision for myself.
As to people’s perception of people with disabilities like Down’s; sure, they seem happy when they come into your library, that’s because they are out and about and having the closest they get to freedom of movement and association for a couple hours before they go back to their home where they have much more restricted mobility and agency. You probably see them at their happiest points of their lives.
Now, question if you think that those with mental disabilities would prefer to keep them, would you like to have them? If you think that people with Down’s syndrome are happier, would you voluntarily “contract” the condition in order to be happy? If you could be happy with a 70 IQ and a caregiver to make sure that your basic needs are met, would that be preferable to the difficulties and frustrations that you are required to encounter and deal with in your daily lives? (On some days, I would seriously consider the option).
Now, curing a disability after a person has developed coping mechanisms for that disability, especially if it is also too late in their development for them to be able to take advantage of the full functionality that is offered (like the case for cochlear implants) is a different matter. Those coping mechanisms are actually a large part of who they are, and unlearning them to now learn the “normal” way of coping with life’s challenges could very well not be worth it.
As a final thought, what do we consider to be a disability? If, in addition to curing mental disability, we also are able to boost innate intelligence; in addition to fixing muscular or nervous degenerative disorders, we are able to boost physicality, then would leaving a child as “average” be leaving them disabled in a world where their peers are not “average” at all?
Am I the only one reading the thread who’s seeing a lot of posts that seem to conflate autism and Down’s Syndrome?