# Magic The Gathering Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 30, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430 "2003-10-30T13:23:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Neil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/839c29/32.png) [@Neil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neil)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/81 "2003-11-09T23:23:44Z")
Does anyone still buy/collect older (mostly Revised edition, some 4th, Dark through Ice Age and some others)) cards? I haven’t played in years, and I have two boxes of them. Where could I go if I was interested in selling a lot of these? Someone else might enjoy them, and I could use a few dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/82 "2003-11-10T07:07:20Z")
Heh, a [Platinum Angel](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Platinum%5BAngel) and [Flagbearer](http://www.crystalkeep.com/cgi-bin/magicsearch.cgi?cardName=&cardColour=&cardType=&creatureType=&expansion=&rarity=&cardText=flagbearer&rulingText=) deck could be fun… Maybe with a few [Lifelines](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Lifeline)… Oh yea, I can see this one coming together. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/83 "2003-11-10T15:25:21Z")
mmm…flag-bearing Dawn elementals. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/84 "2003-11-10T17:51:43Z")
[Dawn Elementals](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Dawn%5BElemental), Flagbearers, [Mother of Runes](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Mother%5Bof%5BRunes), Platinum Angels, Lifelines, [Hanna’s Custody](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Hannas%5BCustody), hmm… Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/85 "2003-11-10T18:08:02Z")
Why the Platinum Angels? Am I missing something? Sure, they create a condition of not losing, but it is also a condition of not winning. We need to have a way to get rid of the angel at the right time. SoHanna’s Custody is no good here. I f we are going back to Tempest, let’s add the en-Kor. Nomads, lancers, etc. They are always fun. We also need a win condition. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/86 "2003-11-10T18:24:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by My Darn Snake Legs \* > \*\*Why the Platinum Angels? Am I missing something? Sure, they create a condition of not losing, but it is also a condition of not winning. We need to have a way to get rid of the angel at the right time. \*\* RTFC, Snake - it only stops your opponent winning the game, not you. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/87 "2003-11-10T18:26:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by My Darn Snake Legs \* > \*\*Why the Platinum Angels? Am I missing something? Sure, they create a condition of not losing, but it is also a condition of not winning. We need to have a way to get rid of the angel at the right time. SoHanna’s Custody is no good here. I f we are going back to Tempest, let’s add the en-Kor. Nomads, lancers, etc. They are always fun. We also need a win condition. \*\* Platinum Angel {7} Artifact Creature – Angel 4/4 Flying You can’t lose the game and your opponents can’t win the game. Oh, I think it’ll do just fine. – Justin ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/88 "2003-11-10T18:56:36Z")
Ha! No kidding…that’s what I get for trying to be literate! All this time I thought of that card as a mere stalling tactic! Ok, Ok, keep it and the Hanna’s custody. \ “No posting before coffee!”\ ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/89 "2003-11-10T19:38:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neil \* > \*\*Does anyone still buy/collect older (mostly Revised edition, some 4th, Dark through Ice Age and some others)) cards? I haven’t played in years, and I have two boxes of them. Where could I go if I was interested in selling a lot of these? Someone else might enjoy them, and I could use a few dollars. \*\* Sell them on Ebay. Sell the commons and uncommons in one giant auction, and the rares separately (in their own auctions). Like, if you have 4 copies of Ball Lightning from The Dark, sell all 4 in one auction. The ones from The Dark actually go for quite a bit. Pick up a copy of Scyre or Inquest at your local comic shop for the current prices. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/90 "2003-11-13T06:45:36Z")
Okay, stupid newbie question to be sure, but it’s something that’s been bugging me… Why is the Wild Mongrel revered as much as it is? Is it just that his easy +1/+1 makes for unbeatable early creature advantage? Same goes for Goblin Piledriver, now that I think about it. Again, useful, but easily blocked. I just don’t get it. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/91 "2003-11-13T07:18:04Z")
KKB, the answer is not so much that Wild Mongrel is good, but that it is good for its cost. An interesting phenomenon in competitive magic is that the game is often determined by what’s called “tempo”. If all of your spells and creatures are better than all of my spells and creatures, but all of my spells and creatures hit the table 3 turns before yours, I’ll probably win. In the case of Wild Mongrel, it’s particularly key that its discarding/pumping effect costs no mana. If I cast it on turn 2 and start attacking, I’m already taking bites out of your health. On turn 4 you might cast a much bigger, better, creature. But I attack in with the mongrel and, if you block, discard cards, and still have mana left, and it’s just generally a beating. (It also interacts extremely well with Threshold, Flashback and Madness, which were the main mechanics of Odyssey block.) I always find it entertaining how a card can go from super-broken-amazing-4-of-in-every-constructed-deck to mediocre by adding only one colorless mana to its cost, but in constructed magic (much less so in limited) that’s definitely true. ---
**Author:** ![Ninten01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Ninten01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ninten01)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/92 "2003-11-13T08:36:53Z")
I think that because it has such good stats/ stats gain … that it is too easy to play with and makes the game all the less fun, so because it’s so good people don’t like it, ‘cos it’s too easy with it … Just like the ‘Broodstar’, in the new Blue/Black Mirrodin deck, I don’t particularly like it cos its so easy to play with ‘Affinity for Artifacts’ and its states being’_/_’ so it’s attack/strength i can get to ‘34/34’, too easy seeing as it costs with the affinity just 2water… So I think it’s too good. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/93 "2003-11-13T15:34:58Z")
Another key to the mongrel is the often overlooked ability to change colors. Key in getting around protection (I know pro: green isn’t so common, but still) and changing to black to save it from most black kill spells. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/94 "2003-11-13T15:39:21Z")
And along the lines max was saying, Grizzly bears were always considered pretty good because they were cheap compared to scathe zombies and the like. Take a card that’s already pretty good, and add an ability for no extra mana cost, and you get a great card. ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/95 "2003-11-13T16:02:08Z")
christ MtG… jesus that takes me back, i started playing in 1993/4 at the tender age of 13 just because the comic shop we used to hang out at after school stocked them. As we became accepted members of the “comic shop clique” the owner and the other guys (who were serious players) introduced it to us. The owner gave us all a free starter pack and most of the other guys, when they bought in bulk, used to chuck us all the cards they never used and had no intention of trading - you combined that with our purchases and we were able to put together some pretty tough decks (i always had a soft spot for Blue - probably because it let me play my favourite Leviathan). Played it religiously for the next few years and got pretty fecking mean at it. Never did any tournaments (being a mere bubby) but i could regularly beat the tournament players. I even managed to win a 25% discount on all shop items off of the shop owner once. He also used to pay me to come in on Saturdays and teach/play against anyone who was in the shop (money which, of course, i spent straight on more cards… :rolleyes: ). Ahhhhhh those were the days… I stopped playing in about 1997 when the comic shop (the only one in town and the only place that sold MtG) shut down - that pretty much killed the MtG community we had going. I sold most of my cards (Everything from Alphas up) in my second year at Uni when i discovered they were quite valuable. They funded a fair few drinking sessions! After that i didn’t touch a card until last year when, at an SFX convention, they were running a stall thing where you could buy cards or sit down and play against people with pre-built decks etc. I got talking to the guys behind the counter and they got me playing a few games again - think i spent the whole last couple of days of the convention in that room. To be honest i’d probably play it again now, but i don’t know anyone else who plays anymore - and its not the same without a little community thing. Any **LonDopers** want to buy this ol’ Magic Player a drink and listen to me war stories??? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/96 "2003-11-13T17:57:46Z")
**Evil Death** is in the UK, but I don’t think he’s near London. Further North, up near Scotland if not in Scotland IIRC. He may know some other M:tG players from London though and be able to hook you up with a playgroup. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/97 "2003-11-13T20:01:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by KKBattousai \* > \*\*Same goes for Goblin Piledriver, now that I think about it. Again, useful, but easily blocked. I just don’t get it. 😕 \*\* True, it is easily blocked. But, like **MaxTheVool** mentioned, it’s all about tempo and synergy. Don’t just think of what the card can do by itself, but rather, what it can do with the rest of your deck. By themselves? Sure, they’re pretty crappy. But, paired with the right cards, they can be deadly. Take Raging Goblin and Mogg Flunkies. The two already have amazing synergy, but throw in the Piledriver, and the deck gets pretty scary. The protection from blue makes this card even more amazing. It can’t be bounced, goes right through Psychatog, and can block Psychatog all day long (I don’t know if that deck is still popular, but it was all the rage about a year ago). ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/98 "2003-11-13T20:04:03Z")
And there’s always Magic Online, a quite fine product. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/99 "2003-11-13T22:40:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > \*\ ***Evil Death** is in the UK, but I don’t think he’s near London. Further North, up near Scotland if not in Scotland IIRC. \*\* I’m in Aberdeen, venue for Britain’s most northerly Premiere events. \*\* [/QUOTE] He may know some other M:tG players from London though and be able to hook you up with a playgroup. \*\* [/QUOTE] London is positively heaving with players. [www.thegamesclub.co.uk](http://www.thegamesclub.co.uk) will put you in touch with them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/100 "2003-11-13T23:51:20Z")
OK, so I misrembered about the cost of phasing creatures. When I said that I knew “somewhat” of phasing, I didn’t mean that in a dramatic understatement sort of way; I meant that I’ve seen a few phasing cards for a few minutes. It still seemed pretty stupid. Bands with Other had two virtues over Snow-Covered Lands. First, it was actually an ability, which could conceivably be helpful to the player in some situations. And second, it was rare. The only times it ever showed up were in Master of the Hunt (and you’d expect to get a lot of Wolves of the Hunt, so at least you’d get to use it) and in five legendary lands which gave “Band with other Legends” to legends of a particular color. So you could pretty much ignore it. Snow-covered lands, on the other hand, were mentioned on about every third Ice Age card, and only on about two of those cards did they help the person using them. As for banding, yes, things get complicated when creatures get removed from the attack, but that’s true whether you have banding or not. And I know of no conceivable way that banding could be lost in the middle of an attack without losing the creature… How often does that come up? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430.md?page=6)