# Magic The Gathering Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 30, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430 "2003-10-30T13:23:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/121 "2003-11-14T22:29:40Z")
Most of the big grand melee’s are those “limited realm of influence” type of games. Attack the players immediately adjacent to you, global spells affect you and the player immediately on your left and right, that sort of thing. At my place we pretty much play free-for-all. Global spells are really global, attack anyone, all that stuff. Makes it far more intricate to face eleven other players at the same time than to chew your way through a couple at a time. We don’t usually allow [Shahrazad](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Shahrazad) though, for obvious reasons. **Max** : Wizards also experimented with it again in the form of an Alliances card called [Sustaining Spirit](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Sustaining%5BSpirit). She was a tiny bit better than Ali in that she was tougher, cheaper, and in a color which could protect her better(not many wards or damage prevention spells in Red). Of course she had a cumulative upkeep so she still sucked. I don’t have much fear that the Angel will unbalance the game, although Wizards does seem to have felt a threat from Yu-Gi-Oh and Yu-Gi-Oh has stupidly powerful creatures and very little in the way of balance and WotC may try to make a few of those to attract that crowd. Artifact Creatures are historically the most fragile creature type, vulnerable to both artifact destruction and creature destruction as well as straight damage/combat damage. She’s a toy, nothing to be really afraid of at the moment, although she could be nasty in Extended with Hanna’s Custody still around, I don’t think very many top-tier decks will be built around a seven-casting cost card as fragile as she is. Enjoy, Steven BTW, don’t you just love the Wizards AutoCard site? That has made it so freaking handy to link to cards and such. I wish they had pulled their stupid heads out and made one of these years ago. But no, back then they were suing people for making scans and putting them on the web. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/122 "2003-11-14T23:54:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mtgman \* > \*\*Ok, you’ve totally got me confused here. I fail to see how each forest producing extra G when tapped for mana helps cast [Humility](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Humility) as an instant. Are you misremembering [Vernal Bloom](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Vernal%5BBloom)? I think you mean [Vernal Equinox](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Vernal%5BEquinox). 😉 > \*\* Arg. RTFC card next time, Justin. Yes, I meant Equinox. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/123 "2003-11-15T00:11:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by InquisitiveIdiot \* > \*\*Meh. You call those bad cards? > > [Thought Lash.](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=thought+lash) Perfect for when you need to lose the game in under 10 turns. \*\* Thought Lash isn’t all that bad. Play it in a larger deck if you have to, or just buy some time while you win. At least it does something useful, which is more than some cards. Besides, it’s got some combos, like Power Conduit and Donate. Seafarer’s Quay only combos with Psychatog. – Justin ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/124 "2003-11-15T05:38:35Z")
Was there a typo up there? Because the Rakalite **JSexton** linked to isn’t an overpriced creature, it’s an artifact that prevents damage. And it looks fairly reasonable for such, if maybe a little overpriced. But the most useless card in the game is [Wall of Caltrops](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Wall+of+Caltrops). Two mana for a small wall which has an ability which it would realistically never get to use. Wait, I take that back. **MaxTheVool** just reminded me of the Shelkin Brownie, which I had hitherto succeeded in wiping from my memory. Two mana for a 1/1 creature whose only special ability is to remove the rarest special ability in the game. I mean, really. The only ability less common than “bands with other” is “remove bands with other”. And it’s in _green_, for crying out loud, where you’re supposed to get a lot more creature for your mana. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/125 "2003-11-15T08:48:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vandal \* > \*\*What? The entire **two** creatures that have plainswalk? \*\* Two? I count five. In addition to which, there are four cards that can bestow the ability. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/126 "2003-11-15T08:55:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vandal \* > \*\*What? The entire **two** creatures that have plainswalk? \*\* Two? I count five. In addition to which, there are four cards that can bestow the ability. ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/127 "2003-11-15T10:25:56Z")
Which five are they? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/128 "2003-11-15T13:02:17Z")
Righteous Avengers and Graceful Antelope have plainswalk; Giant Slug, Illusionary Presence and Magnigoth Treefolk can all gain it with innate abilities. Additionally, Aysen Highway gives all white creatures plainswalk while Traveller’s Cloak and Excavator can bestow it. Lastly, Barbarian Guides can grant snow-covered plainswalk. ---
**Author:** ![Thaddeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cab0a1/32.png) [@Thaddeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thaddeus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/129 "2003-11-15T17:33:33Z")
> [@](#): > > I have a Mirrodin Blue/Black deck, new got it last week or something, but I love it, and was wondering how I would get in touch with some friendlyn newbie-tournaments. Looking for a bit of coaching too, but just whoever, whenever really You should look into Friday Night Magic. You can find details about it, and a link to find a store that runs it near you here [http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=events/magic/fnm](http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=events/magic/fnm) . You will find all types of players at FNM, so you will be able to find some veterans who can help out your game, as well as some newer players who play at your skill level. There is also typically a good bit of casual play before the actual tournament begins, so even if they are running a draft you will get a chance to play with your constructed decks. I would also be happy to give you coaching via AIM. Just email or PM me and I’ll give you my screen name. ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2003, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/130 "2003-11-15T22:13:08Z")
Oh. Interesting. I was just referring to the two that have it built in. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/131 "2003-11-16T02:06:26Z")
More useless magic trivia (well, I have to have **some** take home pay after all the hours and dollars I’ve spent…) Other cards which have a you-can’t-lose effect include the very good and frequently played [Worship](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Worship) and a few other more abstract things like [Soul Echo](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Soul+Echo) and [Transcendence](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Transcendence). The Alpha rare [Lich](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Lich) also messed around with win conditions. It’s true, however, that [Platinum Angel](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Platinum+Angel) does it far better than any previous card ever did. Oh, and it made a reasonably appearance in the most recent pro tour, in which all the good decks were super-fast combo decks with [Tinker](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Tinker). As for creatures with Plainswalk, in addition to the list **Evil Death** provided, there’s [This mighty beating](http://www.wizards.com/magic/autocard.asp?name=Zodiac+Rooster). And, here’s my addition to the worst card ever discussion… recently, I made myself a new life notebook, which is a little spiral bound book with the pages cut in half, with numbers from 0 to 30 written on each half, which allows easy tracking of both players’ lives. (It works kind of like a volleyball score tracker.) Anyhow, I decided to decorate it with the best and worst rares from every expansion. Here’s what I settled on… bear in mind that I’m limiting myself to rares (or U1’s in the case of sets without rares). And I’m trying to balance power in both limited and constructed (And no, I’m not going to make 60 autocard windows… check the [Oracle](http://www.wizards.com/dci/oracle/ORT110-01-03.txt) if you don’t know what any of these do…) Alpha/Beta/Unlimited: Contract from Below vs. Living Artifact Arabian Nights: Library of Alexandria vs. Island Fish Jasconius Antiquities: Strip Mine vs. Urza’s Mitre Legends: The Abyss vs. Rapid Fire The Dark: Ball Lightning vs. Sorrow’s Path Fallen Empires: Aelopile vs. Delif’s Cube Ice Age: Stormbind vs. Snowblind Homelands: Autumn Willow vs. Baki’s Curse Alliances: Thawing Glaciers vs. Winter’s Night Mirage: Hammer of Bogardan vs. Acidic Dagger Visions: Rainbow Efreet vs. Breathstealer’s Crypt Weatherlight: Firestorm vs. Goblin Bomb Tempest: Cursed Scroll vs. Thumbscrews Stronghold: Shard Phoenix vs. Volrath’s Gardens Exodus: Recurring Nightmare vs. Fighting Chance Urza’s Saga: Morphling vs. Discordant Dirge Urza’s Legacy: Memory Jar vs. Damping Engine Urza’s Destiny: Masticore vs. Carnival of Souls Mercadian Masques: Thrasing Wumpus vs. Security Detail Nemesis: Lin Sivvi vs. Pale Moon Prophecy: Mageta The Lion vs. Wintermoon Mesa Invasion: Urza’s Rage vs. Alabaster Leech Planeshift: Question Pheldagrif vs. Goblin Game Apocalypse: Pernicious Deed vs. Last Stand Odyssey: Call of the Herd vs. Dwarven Shrine Torment: Mutilate vs. Cephalid Vandal Judgment: Glory vs. Epic Struggle Onslaught: Exalted Angel vs. Words of Waste Legions: Akroma vs. Dreamborn Muse Scourge: Eternal Dragon vs. Karona, False God I’m not sure yet what I would pick from Mirrodin… ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/132 "2004-01-09T20:04:43Z")
So Darksteel is comming on the 24th, so it’s time to revive the thread! What do you folks think of the cards that have been previewed? [This](http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/rb105) is the newest one. It looks like a nice little combo piece. Combined with Lightning Greaves and maybe a Fireshrieker it could end the game in a very sudden manner. Course, it’s not industructable and can be taken out easily with all of the anti-artifact spells around. Thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/133 "2004-01-09T23:18:04Z")
If it comes down on turn three in Limited, your opponent may or may not be in trouble. Playing it when his hand is empty or when you’re about to run out of cards is also a plan. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2004, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/134 "2004-01-09T23:46:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Death \* > \*\*If it comes down on turn three in Limited, your opponent may or may not be in trouble. Playing it when his hand is empty or when you’re about to run out of cards is also a plan. \*\* What really leaps to my mind is Stax. Stax (as you may know) is a Type One deck that uses Sphere of Resistance, Smokestack, and Tangle Wire to lock an opponent out of the game. Meditate is used to go up on cards while making the other guy take turns that are worse than useless. Four mana to maker them sacrifice more permanents, then swing with 9 power worth of flyer? Heck yeah. In Limited? Hmm. Drop a Steel Wall turn one, Talisman + Greaves turn two, and this on turn three. How much offense will they get in past a 9/8 dude in three straight turns? Not much. Of course, you then have to hit them three times for the kill, but you can be casting other blockers in the meantime. – Justin ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/135 "2004-01-10T00:05:44Z")
You can’t play a Talisman and Lightning Greaves on turn 2, Justin. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu\_Tashoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7993a0/32.png) [@Gozu\_Tashoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu_Tashoya)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/136 "2004-01-10T20:31:46Z")
Give him benefit of the doubt and assume he meant Chrome Mox? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f14d63/32.png) [@My\_Darn\_Snake\_Legs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/My_Darn_Snake_Legs)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2004, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430/137 "2004-01-11T06:23:37Z")
I’d be a little nervous dropping it that soon. Naturalize and Shatter can both come out suddenly on turn 2-3-4. I think I’d rather wait until they have an empty hand or near to it. A limited deck is unlikely to have lots of different cards for artifact dustruction. I think I’d rather wait for a couple of turns and hit hard then drop, attack, and sit for two turns being beat on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-discussion/210430.md?page=6)