# Magic: the Gathering leaks and suspensions **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 22, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-leaks-and-suspensions/741131 "2015-12-22T22:31:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-leaks-and-suspensions/741131/21 "2015-12-29T21:28:16Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > But let’s assume for the sake of argument that some or all the members of this private facebook group had a pretty good idea that they were seeing some real leaks. Do they have an obligation to report it, and can they be reasonably punished for failure to uphold that obligation? Didn’t they suspend people who were simply members of the Facebook group, regardless of whether they had even responded to the posts in question? If so, then I think the first question to ask is: Is it reasonable for a company to expect people to actually pay attention to what’s being shared with them on Facebook? And the answer is a **resounding no**. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-leaks-and-suspensions/741131/22 "2015-12-30T12:46:39Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > You’re assuming some things that I don’t think we have much evidence for. As I said above, my opinion depends on the quality of the investigation. Wizards isn’t going to share all their evidence, nor should they. > [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Sure, there’s _somebody_ who’s getting these leaks from the source, or someone close to the source, and only gets solid information. That person knows that the leaks are real. As they are shared further, they get mixed with fakes, with official releases, with whatever. The further down the line you are, the less you have a clear idea that there is the source of a leak anywhere near you. According to the guy who did send this out on Twitter, he didn’t think it was real and was interested in a speculative discussion. > > But let’s assume for the sake of argument that some or all the members of this private facebook group had a pretty good idea that they were seeing some real leaks. Do they have an obligation to report it, and can they be reasonably punished for failure to uphold that obligation? > > I would say that they do not. In fact, I think the concept is absurd. Purchasing a company’s products and playing a game that they sell does not impose an obligation on anyone to _do anything_ for that company. > > I think you need a much stronger argument than “they knew there were real leaks” before I’m convinced that I have an obligation to a corporation to report on my friends for violating a marketing strategy. Is there a moral obligation to report the theft and dissemination of intellectual property? I’d say yes. Also, it’s a two-way street - Wizards is under no obligation to allow people who are harming their business to play the game in sanctioned events. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-leaks-and-suspensions/741131/23 "2015-12-30T17:08:40Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Is there a moral obligation to report the theft and dissemination of intellectual property? I’d say yes. How far does that obligation extend? If I were to post a link to a torrent site in this thread (I won’t), would the readers of this thread be morally obligated to notify all the film companies whose IP is being disseminated? I saw the spoilers once they made it to the wide web. Did I have an obligation to report them? > [@](#): > > Wizards is under no obligation to allow people who are harming their business to play the game in sanctioned events. Sure, we all have freedom of association. But Wizards has to walk a pretty fine line here or they’ll anger their players for being arbitrary. Their stated rationale wasn’t “these players harmed our business”. It was “these players had an obligation to report on others who were harming our business”, and that’s what we’re discussing. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-leaks-and-suspensions/741131/24 "2015-12-30T20:41:09Z")
I suspect that the percentage of their player base that is even aware of Judges and the pro circuit, let alone this controversy, is large enough that the idea this will anger anyone out of playing is irrelevant to them. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-leaks-and-suspensions/741131/25 "2015-12-31T15:12:12Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > How far does that obligation extend? Not very. If you have the information and the ability to easily convey it to the damaged party, then you’re obligated, to me. > [@](#): > > If I were to post a link to a torrent site in this thread (I won’t), would the readers of this thread be morally obligated to notify all the film companies whose IP is being disseminated? I’d say no, but that’s not really analogous. We’re talking about one company, not many; and a leak with one verifiable source, not an endemic issue like torrents. > [@](#): > > I saw the spoilers once they made it to the wide web. Did I have an obligation to report them? No, unless you had information on the source. > [@](#): > > Sure, we all have freedom of association. But Wizards has to walk a pretty fine line here or they’ll anger their players for being arbitrary. Their stated rationale wasn’t “these players harmed our business”. It was “these players had an obligation to report on others who were harming our business”, and that’s what we’re discussing. Speaking as a player who wasn’t angered, I think they’ll be fine, but others are free to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-leaks-and-suspensions/741131/26 "2015-12-31T15:48:12Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I suspect that the percentage of their player base that is even aware of Judges and the pro circuit, let alone this controversy, is large enough that the idea this will anger anyone out of playing is irrelevant to them. If this is true, and the vast majority of their player base is unaware of this leak and the associated controversy, why would they be so upset about the cards being leaked at all? ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-leaks-and-suspensions/741131/27 "2015-12-31T16:38:02Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > If this is true, and the vast majority of their player base is unaware of this leak and the associated controversy, why would they be so upset about the cards being leaked at all? Pareto’s Principle. The 20% who are aware of this issue probably account for 80% of sales. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-leaks-and-suspensions/741131/28 "2015-12-31T18:01:46Z")
> [@Reyemile](#): > > Pareto’s Principle. The 20% who are aware of this issue probably account for 80% of sales. It feels as if their response is ignoring that slice of the population that provides the income in deference to their marketing arm which is trying to expand the 80%. Somewhat similar to their curious response to requests to increase the number of tokens in packs versus marketing cards. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-leaks-and-suspensions/741131/29 "2015-12-31T18:29:04Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > If this is true, and the vast majority of their player base is unaware of this leak and the associated controversy, why would they be so upset about the cards being leaked at all? Not being aware of the details doesn’t mean they didn’t hear about the spoiled cards. What I mean is that if the pro tour and judges program disappeared tomorrow it would just be a dent in their sales, not the end of the game. They look at it is as a marketing expense not a source of revenue. ---
**Author:** ![Reyemile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@Reyemile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reyemile)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-leaks-and-suspensions/741131/30 "2016-01-14T01:17:17Z")
[Suspensions commuted.](http://magic.wizards.com/articles/archive/news/learning-opportunities-2016-01-13) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magic-the-gathering-leaks-and-suspensions/741131.md?page=1)