# Magnets for pain relief **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [November 9, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnets-for-pain-relief/640482 "2012-11-09T14:45:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnets-for-pain-relief/640482/62 "2012-12-04T20:13:16Z")
According to **ciroa** , the reason magnets don’t cause numbness or paralysis is because the magnets are working as a kind of “choke” or high frequency signal filter. Supposedly then regular sense and muscle activity are low frequency signals, while pain is a high frequency signal. Thus, putting a choke on the signal line will eliminate the pain but allow the other sensations through. Not that I agree, but that is what his explanation claims. Thus he addressed your point. ---
**Author:** ![GRobLewis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5e925/32.png) [@GRobLewis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GRobLewis)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnets-for-pain-relief/640482/63 "2012-12-04T20:20:22Z")
> [@Chicago\_Stonepro](#): > > Actually, the GPS was turned off during that experience. > > Smartphones actually do sense magnetic fields, having solid-state compasses built-in. Depending on the app, one can improve the accuracy slightly by turning on the GPS, and enabling the correction function. > > [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compass#Solid\_state\_compasses](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compass#Solid_state_compasses) > > Modern diesel locomotives are actually diesel powered generators that produce electicity for an electric drive. That’s why the needle spun around every time one went by in the opposite direction. A large magnetic field was zooming by. GPS has _nothing whatsoever to do with magnetism_ (except that the satellite signals are electromagnetic waves). You cannot, repeat _cannot_, duplicate the function of a compass with GPS. If you are moving, GPS can tell what direction you’re moving in by comparing successive locations. If you’re standing still, it only knows where you are, not which direction you’re pointed! ---
**Author:** ![ciroa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@ciroa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ciroa)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnets-for-pain-relief/640482/64 "2012-12-26T14:22:34Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > … if you can’t prove the effect, there’s little point in trying to explain how the effect happens. > … > > Prove the effect exists, first. Then worry about how it works. > [@Irishman](#): > > **ciroa** , when MRI machines used in hospitals for diagnostics have zero measurable effect on pain relief, it is ridiculous to try to argue that kitchen magnets can do anything but placebo. Well, I wasn’t trying to prove that magnets work for pain relief. Frankly, if you ask me, they don’t until there is a proof and this proof is peer reviewed, as you say. I’m an engineer and a scientist: in principle, I do not believe in what I _see_, much less in what I _hear_. However, I am not saying that magnets work for pain relief. I am disputing Cecil assertion (gulps!) when he said in his answer to this issue "… _no one’s proposed a plausible physiological explanation for how magnetism does its stuff on the body’s cells_. (I don’t mean all that crap in the ads about “negative and positive ion energy levels”; I mean something you could say in the lab without having everyone roll their eyes.) ". THE MASTER WAS WRONG, period. There is a base and it is used routinely in electric gadgets. I do not know if it works, but the POSSIBLE effect definitely exists. Thus, Cecil was wrong. However, I agree with the rest of Cecil’s answer: as I said, I’m an engineer and, if I’m allowed to put it this way, engineering is the art of discerning what’s probable and what’s possible. So, if you ask me: possible? Yes. Probable? No. Hence, when Cecil said: “possible? No.”, he was wrong. Now, on the subject of magnets working, if you want, dear NitroPress, to call my suggestion a barstool talk, please, review the NIH conclusion on magnets, if you ask for proof (and remember: proofs are always conflicting, at least in my field of work, so you have to develop “a sense for nonsense”, as I do routinely and daily, but that’s not the point, or so I think: I DO NOT “BELIEVE” IN MAGNETS FOR PAIN. Actually, I believe nothing, except in people and perhaps in Cecil’s answers, oh, great grandmaster of general-answers newspaper columns): “Preliminary studies looking at different types of pain—such as knee, hip, wrist, foot, back, and pelvic pain— **have had mixed results**. Some of these studies, including a 2007 clinical trial sponsored by the National Institutes of Health that looked at back pain in a small group of people, have suggested a benefit from using magnets. However, many studies have not been of high quality; they included a small number of participants, were too short, and/or were inadequately controlled. The **majority** of rigorous trials, however, have found no effect on pain.” [http://nccam.nih.gov/health/magnet/magnetsforpain.htm](http://nccam.nih.gov/health/magnet/magnetsforpain.htm) It is inescapable to conclude that SOME studies (not the majority) have shown effects. Also that NIH, at least for a time (“… including a 2007 clinical trial…”), thought that magnets are useful. I agree with both of you: we have no technology… yet. But the basic knowledge of nerves, electricity and magnets suggest that it is DOABLE. I don’t know if someone will some day do it, but _that’s a different issue_. In fact, transcutaneous electric nerve stimulation is already working, btw, for diabetic neuropathy, and that’s proven. The conclusion is this: “Recommendations: Transcutaneous electric nerve stimulation (TENS) is not recommended for the treatment of chronic low back pain (Level A). TENS should be considered in the treatment of painful diabetic neuropathy (Level B). Further research into the mechanism of action of TENS is needed, as well as more rigorous studies for determination of efficacy.” [http://www.neurology.org/content/74/2/173](http://www.neurology.org/content/74/2/173) QED. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnets-for-pain-relief/640482/65 "2012-12-26T16:59:21Z")
> [@ciroa](#): > > I am disputing Cecil assertion (gulps!) when he said in his answer to this issue "… _no one’s proposed a plausible physiological explanation for how magnetism does its stuff on the body’s cells_. (I don’t mean all that crap in the ads about “negative and positive ion energy levels”; I mean something you could say in the lab without having everyone roll their eyes.) ". > > THE MASTER WAS WRONG, period. There is a base and it is used routinely in electric gadgets. I do not know if it works, but the POSSIBLE effect definitely exists. > > Thus, Cecil was wrong. You are saying there is a “possible” beneficial health effect of magnets (despite most quality studies not demonstrating it), and thus Cecil is wrong to say there is no plausible physiologic mechanism behind it. This doesn’t make sense - having a minority of relatively poor-quality studies showing benefit says nothing about existence of a plausible explanation behind it. Again, there’s a parallel with homeopathy. Rigorous, quality studies overwhelmingly show no health benefits beyond placebo. Homeopathy supporters begin with an assumption that homeopathy _does_ work, and have come up with dubious theories to explain the dubious benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnets-for-pain-relief/640482/66 "2012-12-26T19:39:17Z")
> [@ciroa](#): > > I am disputing Cecil assertion (gulps!) when he said in his answer to this issue "… _no one’s proposed a plausible physiological explanation for how magnetism does its stuff on the body’s cells_. (I don’t mean all that crap in the ads about “negative and positive ion energy levels”; I mean something you could say in the lab without having everyone roll their eyes.) ". > > THE MASTER WAS WRONG, period. There is a base and it is used routinely in electric gadgets. I do not know if it works, but the POSSIBLE effect definitely exists. Please elaborate on how magnetism reacts to possibly reduce pain. Because that is what Cecil was addressing. > [@](#): > > Hence, when Cecil said: “possible? No.”, he was wrong. Try as I might, I cannot find the string “possible? No.” in Cecil’s article. The only text search hit on “possible” on that page is the title of a completely different article. > [@](#): > > "Preliminary studies looking at different types of pain—such as knee, hip, wrist, foot, back, and pelvic pain— **have had mixed results**. … > > It is inescapable to conclude that SOME studies (not the majority) have shown effects. Also that NIH, at least for a time (“… including a 2007 clinical trial…”), thought that magnets are useful. I looked at your link. The National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) is a branch of the NIH that was created to “give alternative medicine a fair chance”. It specifically looks at stuff that the regular NIH ignores as sketchy. Looking at the page you link, it says > [@](#): > > Scientific evidence does not support the use of magnets for pain relief. I’m sure you saw that sentence, as it is right above the paragraph you quoted. The one that said > [@](#): > > However, many studies have not been of high quality; they included a small number of participants, were too short, and/or were inadequately controlled. The majority of rigorous trials, however, have found no effect on pain. In other words, small inadequately controlled short-term tests gave weakly positive results, but better quality tests show negative results. That’s an astounding level of support for using magnets for pain relief. > [@](#): > > In fact, transcutaneous electric nerve stimulation is already working, btw, for diabetic neuropathy, and that’s proven. TENS is direct electrical stimulation of nerves and does not use magnets. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnets-for-pain-relief/640482/67 "2017-05-09T15:18:29Z")
Bumped because the column is back on the front page. Any more interesting or useful research on the topic since it first appeared in 1999, or is it still junk(y) science? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnets-for-pain-relief/640482/68 "2017-05-09T16:08:51Z")
There is an addendum in that a “magnetic field loop” has recently invaded veterinary medicine. I started a thread about it perhaps six months ago, and the conclusion was that it was overstated woo even though there were a few papers showing very powerful magnetic fields did something related to healing. However, an overpriced, watch-battery-powered device was almost certainly woo. The site is VERY impressive and even links to the relevant papers… which, when you read them, have almost nothing to do with the stated claims. (Healing in animals. Magnetic fields are involved to uncertain effect. End of paper.) They are being promoted by giving free units to vet techs across the country who happen to write blogs and so forth. Let’s see… here it is. \*\*[http://www.assisianimalhealth.com/](http://www.assisianimalhealth.com/) \*\*ETA - I guess you could say “at least they aren’t preying on children, or humans”… but they are preying on worried animal owners, and I don’t rank that very much lower in the scum-sucking shitwad category. ---
**Author:** ![Doubticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e56c9b/32.png) [@Doubticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doubticus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnets-for-pain-relief/640482/69 "2017-05-09T17:13:25Z")
There is a lot of woo out there to be sure. However, I do find the results of the test interesting. Not knowing the particulars of the test environment, it makes it impossible to know the influence of the placebo effect, but given how our nervous system is electro/chemical in nature, it may be that a magnetic field could interfere with the pain signaling. But of course there would have to be studies to show that it is possible and prior to that, more studies to show that the effect is real to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Haldurson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/51bf81/32.png) [@Haldurson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haldurson)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnets-for-pain-relief/640482/70 "2017-05-10T14:07:58Z")
> [@psythe](#): > > [Original article here](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1329/can-magnets-alleviate-pain) > > Cecil said (paraphrasing) that the main problem with using magnets for analgesia is that physics doesn’t say why they should help. > > I would hope that, in the face of randomised placebo controlled trials of sufficient size and rigor, the scientific community would shrug and say “well, we obviously have a bit of work to do to catch up with you guys and we may yet find out what was wrong with this study which returns the results to consistency with the rest of what we know, but while we’re investigating go ahead and use them”. > > To paraphrase someone else, the coolest phrase to hear from a scientist is not “Eureka!” but “That’s interesting…” One problem is that you only have ONE study with 50 people in it that shows a positive effect. I know that there have been a lot more studies over the years on the possible effects of magnets on the human body. That One showed a positive effect is likely to be within the realm of statistical noise. Anyone who’s suffered from pain from any number of conditions knows that it waxes and wains. They could have been studying the effect of the full moon on pain, and gotten the same exact results in one study. I know that while I was at Caltech, around 1979 or so, there was research on the effects of very strong magnetic fields on the human body, and they failed to find ANY effect whatsoever at that time (I had a friend who was assisting with that study). Whenever you hear that there was ‘one study’ that showed X, especially one that only had 50 data points, you have to take it with a ton of salt. The scientific method requires reproducability. Unfortunately for believers in magnets, the vast bulk of research shows no effect beyond placebo for magnets on ANYTHING other than picking up iron filings, and the paperclips and sticking to refrigerators. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnets-for-pain-relief/640482.md?page=3)