# Magnolia **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 15, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887 "2004-11-15T17:42:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/1 "2004-11-15T17:42:33Z")
Just saw this movie and I can’t decide: Brilliant surreal exploration of abuse and forgiveness and it’s limits or overblown pretentious crap. I’m leaning toward the former, though when I started I had my doubts. Judging from the customer reviews on Netflix this movie rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. What do _you_ think? > **[Magnolia (1999) - IMDb](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0175880/)** > > Magnolia: Directed by Paul Thomas Anderson. With Pat Healy, Genevieve Zweig, Mark Flanagan, Neil Flynn. An epic mosaic of interrelated characters in search of love, forgiveness, and meaning in the San Fernando Valley. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/2 "2004-11-15T18:13:58Z")
I loved it. I like it more and more each time I watch it. I like the performances, I like the characters (well, as far as one can like that bunch), I adore the soundtrack, and well, I think it’s great. The _only_ thing I dislike is the stories at the beginning–amazing but true!–which are all a bunchof stupid urban legends and the point didn’t really need to be made. I’m sure the audience would have understood that they were all connected and affected each other to some extent without the repeated hammering over the head at the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![jfortun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2acd7d/32.png) [@jfortun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jfortun)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/3 "2004-11-15T18:20:46Z")
I am a big fan. I think of it more as an opera more than as a movie. I enjoyed the intertwining themes about relationships between fathers and their children and the final bizarre ending where reality, stranger than fiction, snaps these people back to the world and changes their lives. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/4 "2004-11-15T18:51:46Z")
It’s both very good AND exasperating! I mean, on the whole, I loved it, but I always have to think long and hard before I recommend it to people I know… because many people who see it will say, “Geez, Astorian, that movie was ridiculous. What the hell were you thinking???” And, much as I liked the film, I’ll know exactly what they mean! ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/5 "2004-11-15T19:06:45Z")
I loved it. It was one of the only movies I’ve ever seen that I feel actually touched my life. I know it’s long and not for everyone, but to me, it’s absolutely brilliant and rings true to how people really are and the way they relate. Beautiful film. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/6 "2004-11-15T19:41:33Z")
I think it’s three hours of my life I will never have back. Three hours I could have doing something useful and entertaining, like scooping the catbox and then arranging the turds and urine clumps into objets d’art. It was the most monumentally boring movie I have ever seen in my life, and I’ve seen some real snorers. It was so horrible that when it started raining frogs, my only reaction was “Oh thank God, surely that means it’s nearly over. _Finally_.” Seriously, if I’d been alone, I would have walked out an hour or more before it ended. I gave it a fair chance, I really did. Based on the trailers and the reviews and the first ten minutes or so, I thought it was going to be the best cinematic experience of the year. But no. It had so little to command my attention that I noticed the exact second my ass started to fall asleep. (My butt almost always falls asleep in long movies, but I almost never notice until the end, because I’m too caught up in the story. If I notice that my butt’s asleep before the credits, you’re losing me. If I notice when my butt falls asleep, you’ve lost me and it’s going to take a miracle to get me back.) There were indeed some very good performances, but I saw most of the good stuff in the trailers. I didn’t give a shit about the stories, and I didn’t give a shit about the people. You can get by with a shitty plot if you’ve got great characters; Stephen King’s been doing it for years. You can get by with shitty characters if you’ve got a great plot; action movies have been doing it for years. But if you can’t have a shitty plot _and_ shitty characters and have anything but shit. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/7 "2004-11-15T20:14:06Z")
It’s one of my favorite movies… even though I’m not sure why.I don’t usually go for complex heartwrenching family dramas. Maybe I love it for the same reasons I love _Moulin Rouge_ and _Gangs of New York_. They’re all such bravura, shamelessly extravagent pieces of filmmaking. ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/8 "2004-11-15T21:35:41Z")
I hate it. I really, really hate it. I honestly don’t think it has a single redeeming quality. It’s long, boring, pretentious as all get out, and incredibly pompous. Most of my friends love it, but it’s one of my most hated movies ever. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/9 "2004-11-15T22:02:21Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > It’s both very good AND exasperating! I mean, on the whole, I loved it, but I always have to think long and hard before I recommend it to people I know… This is very much my own reaction. I think it’s inspiring and exhilarating filmmaking, but I also think that what it’s about, and how it’s about it, is rather too abstruse for the mainstream viewer. As much as anything, I’m amazed (in a wonderful way) that such an odd film even _exists_ in today’s lowest-common-denominator moviemaking climate. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/10 "2004-11-15T22:51:01Z")
> [@Astorian](#): > > It’s both very good AND exasperating! I mean, on the whole, I loved it, but I always have to think long and hard before I recommend it to people I know… > [@Cervaise](#): > > This is very much my own reaction. I feel the same way! I wonder if that means anything… [Ricky Jay voiceover]“Surely… this is not… simply… a matter of chance.”[/Ricky Jay] ---
**Author:** ![joshmaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a587f6/32.png) [@joshmaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joshmaker)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/11 "2004-11-15T23:25:04Z")
I absolutely love the way Paul Thomas Anderson was willing to go for broke with such an bold production. So many movies are afraid of embarrassment and shield themselves with an ironic detachment and a wink to the camera. But there is nothing timid about Magnolia, it is absolutely a film that’s not afraid to completely put itself out there and go for broke both emotionally and visually, and I think it succeeds wonderfully. Anderson has a real eye for dramatic visuals, and everything from the restless camera to the use of editing make for a sumptuous visual feast. I would go on, but [Roger Ebert](http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20000107/REVIEWS/1070303/1023) sums up my view of this movie so well I can’t help but quote him: > [@](#): > > “Magnolia” is operatic in its ambition, a great, joyous leap into melodrama and coincidence, with ragged emotions, crimes and punishments, deathbed scenes, romantic dreams, generational turmoil and celestial intervention, all scored to insistent music. > … > Do not expect subdued taste and restraint, but instead a kind of operatic ecstasy. At three hours it is even operatic in length, as its themes unfold, its characters strive against the dying of the light, and the great wheel of chance rolls on toward them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/12 "2004-11-15T23:31:15Z")
I loved this movie. And I have no idea why. Usually, I’m pretty articulate and can explain exactly why a movie did or did not effect me, or at least come up with a reasonably convincing line of bullshit. _Magnolia_ has me stumped. I loved it… just because I loved it. Also, it turned me on to Aimee Mann, who is now one of my top five favorite musicians currently not dead. The rest of the movie could have been _Battlefield: Earth_, and I would forgive it for this alone. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/13 "2004-11-15T23:38:57Z")
I enjoyed Magnolia, but I can see where it can rub people the wrong way. I’m hoping this won’t spoil the movie for anyone, but the part that bugged me was the rain of frogs bit with the kid saying “this is real. this is what happens.” Knocked me right out of the story and I never got back into it. I like everything before and after, but that part just seems so pointless and possibly pretentious. The beginning sequence (suicide or homicide) bothers me for the same reason. I’m a sucker for a good story that is well acted and well directed. The two moments I gave serve only as distractions. Overall, I thought it was a mixed bag. 5/10 ---
**Author:** ![DaddyTimesTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@DaddyTimesTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaddyTimesTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/14 "2004-11-15T23:41:39Z")
My wife and I looked at each other about 20 minutes into the movie and said at the same time, “You can turn this off if you want to.” We wanted to. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/15 "2004-11-15T23:47:14Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > I loved it. I like it more and more each time I watch it. I like the performances, I like the characters (well, as far as one can like that bunch), I adore the soundtrack, and well, I think it’s great. The _only_ thing I dislike is the stories at the beginning–amazing but true!–which are all a bunchof stupid urban legends and the point didn’t really need to be made. I’m sure the audience would have understood that they were all connected and affected each other to some extent without the repeated hammering over the head at the beginning. Oh, right, the urban legend opener. I think this is why I was disliking the movie at the beginning. I can’t believe they used [The diver in the tree](http://www.snopes.com/horrors/freakish/scuba.htm) story, which has been roundly debunked. Also I thought the movie was going to be all about freakish coincidences like “Did you know Lincoln had A secretary named Kennedy and etc, etc.” Then the scat version of _One is the Loneliest Number_ came on, which was annoying. But the connections between the carachters in the movie were much more mundane, believable and poignant than the urban legend opening would have led you to believe. And the music improved. So I started out not liking the movie but as the story moved on I got pretty involved with it and I thought the end was beautiful. That puts things in perspective. I’ll have to watch it again, I guess, though not right away. One other thing that made it hard for me was that I have a few hysterical people in my family and the screaming scenes brought up some bad memories. YMMV, of course. ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/16 "2004-11-16T02:37:30Z")
I can’t decide how I feel about this movie. For every part I liked, there was a part I hated. I hated the John C. Reilly character (the cop) and his relationship with Claudia. I liked the Tom Cruise character, how he was a scumbag and thought he was hot stuff. But he has real feelings too! Awww… But mainly I liked how he was such a slimeball. I hated the Thurston Howell guy at the bar. I loved Julianne Moore telling the pharmacy kid to “suck [her] dick”. I hated the situation with Stanley, and his dad being a jerk, and how he peed his pants, but I only hated it because it made me so damn sad. I liked the Philip Seymour Hoffman character. I hated how they all sang along to “Wise Up”. I personally didn’t get anything out of it, and it just made the movie longer. I’ve only seen this movie once. I keep meaning to watch it again, but it’s so long and I can’t bring myself to spend 3 hours sitting in front of the TV again. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/17 "2004-11-16T08:48:05Z")
This movie completely polarises people. Love it or hate it, there’s no in-between. I expected to hate it, and I loved it. “I am quietly judging you.” is one of my all-time favourite lines. ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/18 "2004-11-16T09:35:35Z")
I saw it eight times in the theater and bought it the day it came out on DVD. This Thread has me wanting to discuss Robert Elswit’s photography, but rather than hijack I’ve started a [new Thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=286893). ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/19 "2004-11-16T12:17:10Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > Just saw this movie and I can’t decide: Brilliant surreal exploration of abuse and forgiveness and it’s limits or overblown pretentious crap. I think it’s definitely **both**. 🙂 It’s amazing that so many people jock it or hate it because it’s “pretentious” - as someone who sat through the entire _The Cremaster Cycle_ in one afternoon, I must have a different yardstick for pretense. Of course, I’m a bit of a cinephile, seeking out difficult work. I loved the Frank T.J. Mackie character - “Seduce and Destroy!” To this day, I can’t help but add “…the piece!” whenever someone says “Denise.” Still, the Aimee Mann singalong scene was ridiculous. I was irritated enough that the movie seemed to double as an infomercial for her mediocre-at-best music, but when the singalong hit, I wanted to kill someone. I was also irritated at the film’s conscious “artiness” - while it may impress the average popcorn-munching filmgoer, I just went to an entire Ozu retrospective this summer, so Magnolia’s artsy pretensions were almost as unconvincing as Radiohead’s attemps to convince me that they’re an “experimental” band. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2004, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887/20 "2004-11-16T12:27:19Z")
The Tom Cruise character was one of the best in a long time: really reminds you that he is actually a decent talent in addition to being a pretty face. And gay. He was so disgusting and outrageous in the beginning, and then the facade started to fall away throughout the movie. Really well done. I agree on the John C Riely character: just sort of annoying. The William Macy stuff in the bar is just bizarre: I still don’t have much clue what most of it meant or what half the characters were talking about. But the movie definately had some intelligence and power to it, even if it was flawed by pretention and the goofy premise. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/magnolia/274887.md?page=2)