# Mahathir and the Jewish/Muslem double standard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139 "2003-10-29T00:01:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139/21 "2003-10-29T16:41:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\*He’s also an asshole. Always has been. That’s why I vote Shinui. \*\* Off topic - but a good place to put in a legitimate, in-context **“me, too”**!! 🙂 To get back to the OP - why are some people quick to give credence to “double standard” accusations when made by muslims, yet these very same see **no** double standard when Israeli and Palestinian actions are measured by very different yardsticks? Dan Abarbanel ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139/22 "2003-10-29T17:06:18Z")
“Perhaps the fact that Shas is no longer part of the coalition and is, following the 2003 elections. now only the fourth largerst party is part of the point?” That’s a good thing but the point is that people like this fellow shouldn’t be allowed in positions of power in the first place. "Where is “Israel” complaining about other people’s bigotry? " For example the Israeli government denounced Mahatir’s recent comments. “Also, Jews != Israel. Just so you know.” Sure I know. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139/23 "2003-10-29T17:13:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*As appalling and stupid as Boykin’s remarks were, would it be legal to dismiss him for making those comments at a church, in a non-governmental talk? In a country with “free speech?” I’m not standing up for the moron, I just wonder if it would be _possible_ to dismiss him under those circumstances. \*\* He is a general officer in the US military. As such, he has voluntarily agreed in writing to a curtailment nearly all of his civil rights, like all members of the US military have. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139/24 "2003-10-29T18:43:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CyberPundit \* > \*\* > "Where is “Israel” complaining about other people’s bigotry? " > For example the Israeli government denounced Mahatir’s recent comments. > “Also, Jews != Israel. Just so you know.” > Sure I know. So what? \*\* So, your comments seem to indicate otherwise. Israel has absolutely _nothing_ to do with the topic of this thread - which is concerned with _Jews_ and _Muslims_, and the reaction of _Bush_ and _Other Western Leaders_ to Mr. Mahathir’s speech - in which he announced that _Jews_ [note: not “Israelis”] control the world; and whether or not the reactions of “the West” display double standards. Why get a comment about the bigotry of some third-string (rather, fourth-string) Israeli political party here? Seems quite irrelevant. Is your point that this Malaysian fellow ought not to be criticised, because some obscure politician in the political wilderness in Israel is equally bigoted? :rolleyes: Or is your point merely to get in a dig at some bigoted Israelis, whether it is relevant to the topic or not? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139/25 "2003-10-29T19:48:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*Well, just to pull two examples off the top of my head, we did have Ann Coulter’s “let’s invade their countries and force everyone to convert to Christianity” blunderbuss. And the January 2003 Conservative Political Action Conference (with keynote speaker Dick Cheney) included anti-Islam seminars and folks selling truckloads of [virulently anti-Muslim bumper stickers.](http://www.albalagh.net/current_affairs/anti_muslim_stickers.shtml) > > Granted, these aren’t the acts of government officials (thank goodness), but I don’t recall any strong condemnation of events like these, either – which could be seen as tacit endorsement of their views.\*\* DISCLAIMER: I’m not American, I’m not a Bush supporter or a supporter of the Iraq war, and I’m not Jewish. But… But that’s all the difference in the world, **rjung.** The existence of racist nutbars - even ones with newspaper columns or shiny uniforms - is hardly news, and can be expected to be found in any country. There are racist nuts in U.S. newspapers? There are racist nuts RUNNING Egyptian newspapers. That’s a sad fact of life. The existence of _a head of government_ of a large nation giving speeches at international conferences in which he makes a claim of the existence of a Jewish conspiracy is quite something else. I’m sorry, but that’s just a completely different situation, and there is no equivalent in the Western world against Muslims. I find it utterly inconceivable that George Bush, or any other leader of a major Western nation, would make an equivalently ludicrous, hate-inspiring, and racist comment about Muslims. > [@](#): > > I agree. If Boykin had been discharged on the spot, it would have sent a clear message to the international Muslim community and helped the United States regain some of the goodwill we’ve lost, IMO. I quite honestly think it would have made absolutely no difference whatsoever. Nobody in the Muslim world who is pissed off over the Palestinian plight or the invasion of Iraq is going to be swayed from those positions because of the dismissal of some fall guy that far down on the totem pole. > [@](#): > > Let’s not forget his own verbal gaffes, such as “Operation Infinite Justice”, or calling the war on terror a “crusade”… :rolleyes: At the very least, incidents like these show a high level of insensitivity in the Administration That’s a valid criticism but it simply does not support the claim of a double standard. Insensitivity isn’t in the same zip code as racist lies and conspiracy theories. And at least in the case of “Infinite Justice,” let’s be honest, that’s not exactly the same as saying “Operation Kill The Towel-Heads.” Finding fault in some of these alleged gaffes is really stretching. I think it’s a good thing that we are so self-critical that the use of a word like “Crusade” causes fretting about insensitivity - and I suspect the great majority of the hand-wringing about that choice of words occurred in the USA, not the Middle East - because an open and tolerant society SHOULD be self-criticial about stuff like that. But if you take a step back and look at it in broad terms, it’s like saying a mouse is comparable to a blue whale because they’re both mammals. A little insensitivity in choice of a word versus “Evil Jew” stories parroted as truth? No comparison. A dippy newspaper columnist versus a head of government? No comparison. ---
**Author:** ![IzzyR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/2acd7d/32.png) [@IzzyR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IzzyR)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139/26 "2003-10-29T21:06:24Z")
Hey, what’s with all this bashing of Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef, a fine man. It’s absurd to claim that he called for the annihilation of Arabs, the BBC report notwithstanding. The annihilation of Arabs would be a clear-cut violation of Jewish religious law, of which R’ Yosef is a prominent exponent. And R’ Yosef has long been firmly in control of the Shas party, and though they lean to the right, they are to the left of several other parties - certainly they’ve never called for anything even remotely resembling such a position. Clearly, he was referring to Arab terrorists, as his spokesman later explained. While it is true that his language could have been more carefully chosen, you have to bear in mind that he was not addressing a political rally but was giving a religious sermon, which was intended for the consumption of his audience, not for the press and public at large - the former group undoubtedly understood his words in context. The problem you have is that much of the secular public and press in Israel resemble some of the posters to this thread - blind opposition to anything religious, and anything a religious person says is taken and presented in the worst possible context. The fact that people can make statements so completely at odds with reality (e.g. that he is a “lunatic”) is only indicative of this hatred. Sad. FTR, I am not a big fan of R’ Yosef myself - I dislike his approach to Talmudic scholarship, and plus he’s a bit too much of a Zionist for my taste. But the criticism of him in this thread is unfounded and slanderous. ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139/27 "2003-10-29T21:20:28Z")
Malthus, My point is that Israeli critcism of Mahatir and his ilk is made a lot less credible by its own tolerance of bigots in positions of power. I think it’s entirely relevant to the issue of double standards raised in the OP. I will leave that for others to judge. Now go find someone else to annoy. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139/28 "2003-10-29T21:22:25Z")
How much is the average Muslim attitude coloured by lack of understanding of the differences between their their own societies and Western society? If you take for granted that religion is an integral part of all aspects of daily life, and that the media are tightly controlled and censored by the government, how much belief will you have in Western claims of a free press or that a US attack on Iraq is not Christians v.s. Muslims? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139/29 "2003-10-29T21:30:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CyberPundit \* > \*\*Malthus, > My point is that Israeli critcism of Mahatir and his ilk is made a lot less credible by its own tolerance of bigots in positions of power. I think it’s entirely relevant to the issue of double standards raised in the OP. I will leave that for others to judge. Now go find someone else to annoy. \*\* Well, since someone else already pointed out that as a matter of fact the particular bigot you dislike is not _in_ power, you really have zero point at all, right? Not that this thread was ever about “Israeli criticism of Mahatir” in the first place. Check out the OP. As for annoying you - stop posting ignorant and irrelevant stuff, and I will stop making fun of it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![CyberPundit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@CyberPundit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyberPundit)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139/30 "2003-10-29T21:58:54Z")
“Well, since someone else already pointed out that as a matter of fact the particular bigot you dislike is not _in_ power, you really have zero point at all, right?” Hardly. He was in power only a couple of years back (under Sharon IIRC) and he could easily be in power in future governments. He is still a key political figure AFAIK even if he is in opposition at the moment. “Not that this thread was ever about “Israeli criticism of Mahatir” in the first place” It is about double standards and I gave a couple of examples of those. The OP talks about Western governments and Israel is one. Like I said others can judge its relevance ``` "As for annoying you - stop posting ignorant and irrelevant stuff, and I will stop making fun of it." Do what you want. If you enjoy being a pest while contributing nothing of substance yourself that's your choice. ``` ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139/31 "2003-10-30T08:55:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RickJay \* > The existence of _a head of government_ of a large nation giving speeches at international conferences in which he makes a claim of the existence of a Jewish conspiracy is quite something else. Yeah, I know, and tried to acknowledge as such in my earlier message (a point which apparently flew over **Dogface’s** head, as usual). I’m just trying to view things from the POV of a “typical Muslim” who feels persecuted by Western forces – e.g., “This crazy Ann Coulter woman says these things, and no one denounces her! They _are_ out to destroy my faith!” > [@](#): > > Nobody in the Muslim world who is pissed off over the Palestinian plight or the invasion of Iraq is going to be swayed from those positions because of the dismissal of some fall guy that far down on the totem pole. I believe Boykin is currently serving as the United States’ top uniformed intelligence officer; that’s certainly not “far down on the totem pole,” and would give additional fuel for anti-Islam paranoia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mahathir-and-the-jewish-muslem-double-standard/210139.md?page=1)