# Maiden Names **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 24, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738 "2003-01-24T23:01:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738/1 "2003-01-24T23:01:13Z")
I did a search on the word “maiden” and phrase “maiden name” for all forums for the past year (titles only), and didn’t get an answer. So if you have seen this here before, my apologies. A number of legal documents have been passed around my family the past few months, and every single one of the documents refer to my married sisters in First, Maiden, Married name order, ala “Abby Lynn Reese” becomes “Abby Reese Johnson” when she marries a Mr. Johnson. Except one. A cover letter sent to my sister referred to her as Abby Lynn Reese (her original name). This caused my uncle (who is quite anal about these things and insufferably sure of his correctness) to send an email to the lawyers and everybody else in the family, stating that her name was wrong and needs to be changed to Abby Lynn Johnson. Thinking “gotcha!”, I “replied to all”, saying that to match every other document in the packages, the cover letter actually needs to be changed to “Abby Reese Johnson” and not “Abby Lynn Johnson.” So the assmunch\* writes back in a snooty letter - 2(!) of them in fact, telling me I was wrong and how dare I dare I say such a thing, to wit: > [@](#): > > Years ago, I used to do the same thing and then I learned that it was destructive behavior on my part. I know of what I speak. > > I am not a total twit although you may disagree. I had retired and held a rather large number of graduate degrees when I was your age. I only hope you can do was well in your life as I have mine. I donate more to the arts and charities in one year than most people have total net worth after working a lifetime. I hope your intelligence will carry you as far. Well, I am not letting this one go. I can’t, dammit! Here is my question: 1. Who is right? Where is a source (Mrs. Manners?) that states that first/maiden/married is a proper social convention? Is there a source on my Uncles\*\* first/original middle/married naming convention? I know these things do not mean as much as they used to, but I’m sure there’s something out there… 2. Are there any sources that I can reference that speaks of name continuity in legal documents, ala, the radical idea that maybe one should refer to the same person by the exact same name in all documents pertaining to the same legal issue? Some regulation or suggestion from the ALA would do wonders… but then, this is the guy who actually contested the feasibility of using Prozac for OCD, regardless of whatever [www.fda.gov](http://www.fda.gov) .PDF document I could link him (including their [approved labeling and usage](http://www.fda.gov/cder/foi/label/2001/21235LBL.PDF) (PDF document, about 85k)). By the way, the reason I didn’t Pit or Debate this is that I didn’t want a long discussion on the psychology of Uncle Assmunch or the modernity of old-fashioned naming conventions. If somebody wants to start that thread in their proper forums, feel free. 😃 But only if you try to answer this one. 😛 Thank you. \*I abjectly and humbly apologize to all those who may be assmunchers or who belongs to the Assmuncher Anti-Defamation League. Other than Uncle Assmunch, of course. \*\* [Damned apostrophe’s!!!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=157647) Uncle’s? Uncles’ Uncles? AAARRRGGGHHHH!!! :mad: 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738/2 "2003-01-24T23:18:31Z")
The ultimate authority on how to style Mrs. Johnson’s full name is (surprise!) Mrs. Johnson. This is affected not one whit by the number of academic degrees Uncle Assmunch holds, or how much he donates to charity. Miss Manners says that technically (and unfortunately) Uncle Assmunch is correct; however, she also says that she “would not even presume to call any of the combinations of maiden, married, or hyphenated names one now sees ‘incorrect.’” (_Miss Manners’ Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior,_ p. 387) I would also argue with Uncle Assmunch that “correcting” the one document his way will now make it inconsistent with all of the other documents (which, from a legal standpoint, would seem to be more accurate because they show that Abby was a Reese and is now a Johnson). ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738/3 "2003-01-25T00:15:49Z")
Yup. It’s up to the woman herself to decide what name to use. My first wife dropped her maiden name and added mine; my second used her maiden name as middle name. But there is no “correct.” Further what was correct in your uncle’s time is not necessarily correct today. As far as any legal ramifications, as long as the name unabiguously identified the person involved, the contract is enforceable. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738/4 "2003-01-25T01:05:42Z")
Your uncle is, indeed, a twit. Abby’s name is whatever she says it is. If my sister can legally call herself Roberta Shelly H Siesta (wherein the H is the first letter of her husband’s last name (and this is obviously not her real name)), Abby can call herself whatever she wishes, and unc can take a flying leap if he doesn’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738/5 "2003-01-25T03:17:17Z")
Her name is properly whatever she legally changed it to. If she changed it to Abby Lynn Johnson, then that is what all her legal documents should be changed to. If she legally changed her name to Abby Reese Johnson, that’s the name that goes on her legal documents. For all either of you know, when she legally changed her name, she changed it to Hubert J. Pigfelcher, in which case _that’s_ the name that goes on her legal documents. If all her other documents call her Abby Reese Johnson, then that’s what this one document needs to be changed to, as that’s presumably her legal name. ---
**Author:** ![AbbySthrnAccent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@AbbySthrnAccent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AbbySthrnAccent)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738/6 "2003-01-25T04:30:13Z")
It’s whatever the woman decided to use when she married. I use the less common option of FirstName, MiddleName, MarriedLastName. I dropped my maiden name. My father was never around, didn’t contribute emotionally or financially to helping my mom raise us. I like the middle name she gave me, so why adopt his name as my middle? It made no sense to me on an emotional level and sense it was up to me as to how to change it after I married. That’s what I did. In my experience around here the more common option is firstname, maidenname, marriedlastname and then firstname, middlename, hypenated maiden-married last name. ---
**Author:** ![MadScientistMatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@MadScientistMatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadScientistMatt)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738/7 "2003-01-25T05:25:00Z")
Might want to check out Cecil’s column on the subject. [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980828.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980828.html) Basically, Mrs. Johnson is right about what the correct form of her name is simply because her name is legally whatever she choses it to be, and ther is nothing to prevent her from having changed it to Abby Lynn Reese Johnson or even Johnson Lynn Abby Reese if she wanted. Uncle Assmuch does not have the authority to change her name for her. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738/8 "2003-01-25T06:07:47Z")
Another vote here for the woman’s right to choose her legal name. My sister has a commonly used double name (example: “Mary Kate.”) Since she has always been called by that double name, she chose to simply add on her husband’s last name. Although almost everyone in the South grows up with a double name, I think that most of us drop our middle names and use our maiden names and our husbands’ names. I do so out of respect for my father. I can understand why some would choose not to. When making the decision, I hope that many women will consider using their maiden names. It helps in genealogical research. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738/9 "2003-01-25T12:15:32Z")
I searched the forums and not the columns. :smack: I can be such a :wally some times… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738/10 "2003-01-25T14:25:21Z")
Hijacking. Am I the only one who goes nuts at the expression “madien name.” Who the hell is a madien in this day and age? Talk about an anachronism. Please use “given name” or “birth name” and “given birth name.” As in “What’s wrong with calling a person by her given birth name?” ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738/11 "2003-01-25T14:45:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* Damned apostrophe’s!!! Uncle’s? Uncles’ Uncles? AAARRRGGGHHHH!!! Uncle’s. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maiden-names/150738/12 "2003-01-25T14:48:09Z")
But my cousin’s name _is_ Madien. Madien O’hara. 😉