Mail order bride & sour honey

Well I hardly think so, why do you (he said turning the table)? However, when children are involved it certainly is one criterion. Also it is something many of those seeking foreign marriages seem to find very important. Who am I, or you, to tell them what is important or not.

Also many people, a great deal men apparently, find that people stay in marriages for all kinds of healthy reasons, and leave them for all sort of lousy ones.

Having done a bit of hurriedly research, and boy is this an eye opener, I see many of the sites are emphasising three selling points. 1) Russian males are lousy partners. 2) Western (American mainly) females, ruined by feminism, are lousy partners. 3) Russian females, unsullied by feminism, are absolutely fabulous. As presented I find all points equally ridiculous, but striking that many people are willing to go with number one but balk at the others.

  • Rune

Winston, a couple of points:

Try reading about issues of women’s rights, alcoholism, and spousal abuse frm less biased sources; you may find the same thing as you find in this mail-order bride sites, only presented in a less biased way. I mentioned one source above; I can try to dig up others later.

I am by no means saying duration is not acriterion at all for measuring the success of a marriage, just that it is one that should be used with caution. As a child of divorced parents myself, I am emphatically happy that they did not stay together; they did for a good long while (12 years), but they just didn’t belong with each other, and the kids would have been miserable if they had continued to try to make something work that just wasn’t going to work.

OTOH, one set of grandparents is extremely happy with each other after 65+ years, and the other had a completely screwed-up life together for as long as I can remember. I might want to take the first set as a role model, but definitely not the second set, although they were together for even longer.

My aunt and uncle have been married for over 40 years, and have hated each other for at least 39 of them. If what I’ve been told by other family members is correct, they have NEVER loved each other.

They’d have been much, much better off divorcing all those years ago…

Thank you very much for the information. It has been couple of years since I looked into fiancee visas. The information you provided does cast a little different light on what I was lead to believe. A year or so back, I was a couple of months away from going to the Ukraine for 2 weeks. I won’t go into specifics as to why I decided not to go, however I will say that I found a BBS that had both good and bad stories regarding these relationships. The majority of bad was about how the lady would be brought over, marry, and shortly thereafter claim spousal abuse. I do not doubt that many of those incidents were legitimate accusations. I also believe that many were not. The cuckold was found guilty of abuse, divorced, and was required to support the ex for a decade. I do realize this is not a whole lot different than marrying an American bride and then aquiring a divorce. The inference was that many of the women looking for an American male for marriage may have nothing more on their agenda than getting their foot in the door before they slam the door on the guys ass when she kicks him out. Again, I understand that the same may be said of some American women also.

Please refrain from insulting the American use of “mail-order” brides.

In this country, there is a long and dignified history of the practice.
Cite.

Thank you.

Does anyone know where a Bubatte could get a mail-order husband?:smiley:

Regarding Bubba’s use of bee stings to treat his depression, it is not as freaky as it sounds. The practice has been around in folk medicine for quite a while and is called Apitherapy. Though it has not been scientifically proven, there is anecdotal evidence indicating that bee venom may be effective in treating depression and mood swings. Additionally, it has been used to treat some skin conditions and, oddly enough, seems to reduce joint swelling in arthritis sufferers. Again, keep in mind that none of these claims has been formally proven

The American Apitherapy Society

Yes I know these sites are very biased that’s why I took them up, I expected everybody could agree all their claims were incorrect. If I should find the same conclusions other places, this would lead me to conclude either that those other site are also bogus or that all the claims (not just the one) on the mail order sites were correct.

With all due respect but ”Soviet Women: Walking the Tightrope” is from 1991. Bubbas girl is going to have been around 10 years of age when that book was written. A decade has gone and a world come undone since then – do you think it’s still relevant?
Regarding Soviet feminism: a Russian girl I knew told me the word (feminism) has a very different negative meaning for Russian women. Since for them feminism meant being forced out to work, while, supposedly, for western women it means having the opportunity to work.

Well neither am I saying it should be the only one. I think we agree, I just don’t understand how you read anything I wrote to mean it should be the only criterion.

  • Rune

Women marry up, men screw down. Most men like the security too, it’s just that they like other things even more. Anyway if women don’t want to squeeze themselves of the marriage market altogether, this is a mind-set that’ll have to go one way of the other. Since more and more women are getting higher educations and powerful business positions they’ll have to “settle” for men with lower education / earnings than themselves – same as men always have, or remain unmarried and see the men turn elsewhere.

Since men and women apparently are quite unable to solve the problems together, an obvious solution would be for women to find their husbands abroad as well, mail order husband. Though I never heard of such a thing. But lo and behold! What do you know. There is just such a thing going on. A thriving business catering to predomintly European women of middle age (or past reproductively age as was so diplomatic put). This time it’s young African men that are the goods. But I have to say, this is one place where nature did not create men and women equal. A young woman marrying an older man, is not sacrificing her evolutionary prospects, whereas a young man hitching up with an older women will have to forego any chance of being a father himself. She’ll not be able to bear him any children, and older man may father children till the day he dies. How unfair of you mother nature!

Aren’t they always? Many men find tables have been turned far enough already the thumbscrews tightened quite sufficient. But I do understand some of the feminists worries. Men are rejecting them, often explicitly so because of feminism, perhaps as a kind of rebellion, voting with their feet thing, “mend your feminist ways or stay spinster” kind of threat. Also some of these men seem to be spurned by local women for a very good reason. Not all of them seem to go into this with the best of reasons. Many seem to be hunting for an old an old dream of a traditional wife, like momma or something. Silly I think but again who am I to judge their dreams, but it’s highly unlikely they should find such a women anywhere, least of all Russia, but the Russian women will feel a pressure to live up to these dreams. This is a recipe for disaster. Some men even wrote about marrying women from across the globe as the most natural thing, duty even, as the victorious party of the cold war. Like English football hooligans roving the streets of Europe meeting any challenge with a “Screw you! Who won the war?!” It has been observed many times that a defeated people often have a significant higher suicide rate, Germany, Italy and Japan all had this following WWII. Also capturing the enemies’ females have always been one aspect of war, at least from Homer to well perhaps the cold war. Wearing these dark goggles, perhaps Bubba sees his fine mail order bride as nothing so much as just claiming what’s righteously his as spoils of war. (As a latter day Achilles bickering about his Brisenna (sp?)) Well, well, well no need to get carried away, unwashed is probably right; Bubba, unable to get laid, is just taking advantage of newly opened opportunities powered by globalization. And in the end I think it’s most often a win-win situation. Bubba gets a beautiful wife, Anastasia gets a social power boost, and a husband who may be a dork, but quite likely also decent enough. And kick me if I’m wrong, but if the girl won’t be able to wriggle poor infatuated Bubba around her little finger within 26 minutes, you can call me a duck, he’ll be obeying her every command and saying spaciba before I learn to pronounce Boris Yeltsin.

Finland lies quite close to here, we have much of the same darkness and depression… Good date if the man didn’t vomit – heh! Ahh memories… Were I but young again…

  • Rune

Absolutely. As many aspects of modern post-Soviet society show, it takes much more than ten years to bring about real, fundamental cultural change, no matter how much the governmental, or even the economic structure may have changed during the same period.

Also keep in mind the huge cultural differentials between urban and rural areas; even if there is a certain class of professional women in Moscow who are used to a lifestyle/workplace that are much more like Western Europe than they were ten years ago, that all changes when you travel east to the Urals or Siberia, or, say, to semi-rural Ukraine. My Soviet-era roomie currently lives with her husband, son, and parents in a dinky three-room apartment. She works full-time as a history instructor at a local technical college, and her mother works full-time as a manager at a local tractor factory. Her husband is a tax inspector, and her stepfather is also employed full-time. Four professional adults in one household, but the difference is that when the men get home from work, they are done for the day. The women still have laundry to do (by hand, in the bathtub), housecleaning, shopping (which doesn’t involve as much line-standing as it did under perestroika, but still isn’t exactly a trip to the local mall), cooking (all from scratch, without all the handy appliances Western housewives take for granted), and in the summer, preserving fruits and vegetables for the winter. All this is done in much the same manner as 100 years ago. It’s very labor-intensive, and men generally do not participate. If a man cooks dinner, he is applauded, whereas a woman is taken for granted.

True enough. When I used to explain to Russians that I am a feminist, they were very confused. “But you aren’t a lesbian,” they would say, “and you actually like men. How can you call yourself a feminist?” The whole bit about “separate but equal” was completely lost on them, unless there was time and inclination to launch into long discussions on feminist theory and the original platform and goals of Western feminism.

Eva, in a roundabout way, you explained why a Russian or former soviet etc. woman could be more desirable than an American woman. I am not a rich man, but I live comfortably and have a good life. Many, if not most, attractive American women will have expectations for their lives which far and away exceed the production capacities of most non-hunk males. Wealth can make quasimodo attractive. I am a rich man by Ukranian or Russian standards. Why would I not want to share my assets/life with someone that appreciates them the most.

If it’s your wish, I’d say go for it. Just make damn sure you make her happy, since she’ll be putting herself in a very vulnerable position. Also keep in mind, Russian tradition vis a vis wealth and possessions is somewhat different than western (I think. Eva Luna I’m in too deep!). If you tell a Russian you have a house, a car etc. they’ll expect you to have it as in own it, as in it being fully paid off, not as in CityBank has given you permission to live in their house while you pay off the remainder of the loan for the next 30 years. Also she’d probably expect you to help her parents financially.

  • Rune

Apparently there are some beaches and resorts in Gambia and Kenya used nearly exclusively by older European women with their young toy-boys. Seems some do but most do not in fact marry the young men, but use it to spice up a good long vacation. I guess the hotties wouldn’t mind too much that you’re just a common American and not blessed with our superior European finesse, but unless you’re a good deal north of 50 I think you’ll find yourself quite the odd one out.

I thought there must be an untapped market for able and good looking young men presenting themselves to these late thirties to early forties, high-powered New York business women, with two beemers in the garage, a penthouse on Manhattan, a mansion in the suburbs and a bungalow on the Bahamas, a maid from The Philippines and a gardener from Guatemala, money in the bank and money in the pocket – but without time to cultivate a relationship or raise a child. Perhaps there is a business opportunity to set up a mail order husband site catering to these kinda couples for someone knowing a bit of PHP? Hmmm…

  • Rune

I would totally get in on a project like this! I think it’s great. Lots of men have trophy women, shouldn’t women be allowed to have their boy-toys as well? What’s good for the goose, y’know. Better make it ASP, though.

Maybe it’s just me, but this totally cracked me up for some reason…

:wink:

Barry

Didn’t any of you see or read How Stella Got her Groove Back?

<all the men in the thread look at each other and shrug>

Some women have tried to play that game of acting like men and fucking everything in sight but the great majority do not find satisfaction in that. That kind of behavior leads to feeling empty and perhaps worthless even in men and much more so in women.

Spanish men for quite some years now have been going to Cuba to get their young and pretty brides (or just to enjoy the sex in Cuba). Some years ago some older female celebrities started doing the same thing. One of the first may have been Marujita Diaz (sort of the Spanish ZsaZsa Gabor: never did anything, just famous for being famous). In her 70s she went to Cuba and married a guy in his 20s and brought him back to Spain. Not surprisingly, the guy started fucking every younger woman who would go along. . . and many went along. After a short marriage they were divorced but a number of other older women have done the same thing. . . pretty much with the same results. I think many of these marriages were also publicity stunts.

I have never met a women under 35 who would go around fucking every guy in sight and who was well balanced and satisfied and happy. Generally they had low self esteem. Women generally need more emotional involvement than men so by trying to compete with men in doing what men do they are setting themselves up for failure just as if a man decided to compete with women by reading romance novels or doing whatever it is women like to do better than men.

I think I get your point, but reverse the genders, would the same not be true?

WinstonSmith, that is pretty interesting about the beaches. Those women don’t sound like Bubattes, but still it is a good idea.