# Maine Governor spars with Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [February 22, 2025, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666 "2025-02-22T12:35:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/1 "2025-02-22T12:35:08Z")
Janet Mills, Governor of Maine, had a brief argument with DJT over Maine’s enforcement of transgender policy. [Trump spars with Maine’s governor at the White House over transgender athletes](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-spars-with-maines-governor-at-the-white-house-over-transgender-athletes/ar-AA1zxp8Q?ocid=BingNewsSerp) (MSN link) > “Is Maine here, the governor of Maine?" he asked. > > “I’m here,” she replied. > > "Are you not going to comply with it?” he asked. > > “I’m complying with state and federal laws," Mills replied. > > Trump responded, “We are the federal law." He again threatened the state’s federal funding and said Maine may be a Democratic state but its residents largely agree with him on this issue. > > “We’re going to follow the law," she said. > > “You’d better comply," Trump warned. “Otherwise, you’re not getting any federal funding.” > > “We’ll see you in court,” the governor replied. > > “Good, I’ll see you in court. I look forward to that. That should be a real easy one,” Trump said. “And enjoy your life after governor because I don’t think you’ll be in elected politics." Good for you, Governor Mills! ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/2 "2025-02-22T13:07:58Z")
Facing down a bully isn’t easy, so good for her. Hopefully, she’ll follow through. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/3 "2025-02-22T13:24:00Z")
It’s scarier than that though. Watching the video, Trump behaves like a petulant child. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/4 "2025-02-22T14:17:58Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Facing down a bully isn’t easy, so good for her. Hopefully, she’ll follow through. She (and her government) don’t really have a choice; Maine state law prohibits gender discrimination, and federal law does not supersede it. Whether Trump can withhold or terminate funds is another matter; frankly he probably can, at least until courts or Congress assert authority over legislatively-mandated spending. But Gov. Mills had the guts to go toe to roe with him and not blink; hopeful that will serve as an example to others to do the same. If a tide of people would just stand up and resist others might realize that Trump’s power has real limits and is often illusory. > [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Watching the video, Trump behaves like a petulant child. Because he is. We saw that eight years ago when he barely acknowledged and refused to shake Angela Merkel’s hand after she refused to accede to his unilateral demands. If he didn’t have control over the Congress, the ability to grant billionaires apparently unrestricted access to some of the most sensitive financial data and payment systems in government, and the unilateral authority to order the launch of nuclear weapons it would be very amusing. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/5 "2025-02-22T14:49:44Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > it would be very amusing. I keep waiting for the big guys in the white coats and very large butterfly nets. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/6 "2025-02-22T14:53:39Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > But Gov. Mills had the guts to go toe to roe with him and not blink; hopeful that will serve as an example to others to do the same. It’s no surprise that Trump was stupid enough to lob that softball at her. My guess is that he thought by calling her out, he could bully her into falling into line with his nonsense. He’ll gnaw on that for days. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/7 "2025-02-22T15:14:57Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Maine state law prohibits gender discrimination, and federal law does not supersede it. Yet. SCOTUS hasn’t been heard from yet on this question. A woman standing up to Trump? Good god, there’s catsup on the walls somewhere. And the word “nasty” is being thrown, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/8 "2025-02-22T15:29:54Z")
Was there no reaction from the rest of the crowd? Good God, of all the problems this country faces (most due to him) he wastes his precious time on trans shit? How anyone can still enable this murmuring prick is beyond me. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/9 "2025-02-22T15:40:51Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Maine state law prohibits gender discrimination, and federal law does not supersede it. The Supremacy Clause disagrees with you. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/10 "2025-02-22T15:52:47Z")
A more useful point to make is that Maine state law prohibits gender discrimination, and Federal law doesn’t prohibit state prohibition of gender discrimination. (That’s probably what “supercede” was intended to mean.) ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/11 "2025-02-22T16:13:04Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > A more useful point to make is that Maine state law prohibits gender discrimination, and Federal law doesn’t prohibit state prohibition of gender discrimination. For now. I assume the Supremacy Clause also applies to Executive Orders. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/12 "2025-02-22T16:17:19Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > Was there no reaction from the rest of the crowd? Good God, of all the problems this country faces (most due to him) he wastes his precious time on trans shit? That is the entire point of the ‘culture wars’ nonsense; to get people emotionally engaged about how they are somehow losing their rights if some marginalized party gets some even though is has essentially no bearing on anything while distracting from the wholesale pilfering and dismantling of the federal bureaucracy and essential elements of national security and public welfare. Trump is not a smart man but he is canny about what gets people engaged and distracted from real issues, and he’s used that ability his entire career to wriggle his way out of one failure after another. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > The Supremacy Clause disagrees with you. You’re going to have to demonstrate where the Constitution gives the federal government any authority to regulate state or local protections against gender discrimination, especially given that most forms of that discrimination involve violations of broadly recognized civil and personal rights that are explicitly protected in the Constitution. The “Supremacy Clause” does not give the federal government, and certainly not the executive, the ability to tell states to do whatever they want them to do regardless of what powers the federal government is assigned in that document. And quite frankly, it is a pretty amazing set of contortions that supposedly political ‘conservatives’ to argue “state’s rights” out of one side of their mouth while trying to impose their authority in particular areas that have long been recognized as the purview of the states on the other. All of the fucking conservatives who have lectured me over the years about how the feds should stay out of the business of states doing whatever the fuck they please is pitched on its head for how absolutely in love they are with Trump trying to impose his own mandates on the states and even private businesses. From the standpoint of pulling federal funding, the federal government (probably) can do that (although the implications are far broader than just transgender athletes) but not by executive order trying to sequester Congressionally-directed funding. But again, this begs the question of what problem this is trying to solve because as far as I am aware transgender athletes aren’t undermining our economy, or cooperating with China to exploit business and national security weaknesses, or giving sensitive data and strategic advantages to Vladimir Putin, so it seems as if they aren’t a real issue that should be in the front of any executive leader’s mind at this moment in national and international affairs. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/13 "2025-02-22T16:32:25Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > The “Supremacy Clause” does not give the federal government, and certainly not the executive, the ability to tell states to do whatever they want them to do regardless of what powers the federal government is assigned in that document. > This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. If the Federal Government passed a law outlawing laws against gender discrimination, such as outlawing gender neutral bathrooms or requiring students to be on sports teams according to their birth-assigned gender or outlawing cross-dressing and drag shows, you’re saying that the Supremacy Clause would not apply to Maine’s laws? > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > From the standpoint of pulling federal funding, the federal government (probably) can do that (although the implications are far broader than just transgender athletes) but not by executive order trying to sequester Congressionally-directed funding. _Dole v South Dakota_ puts some limitations on legislation through pursestrings. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/14 "2025-02-22T16:42:29Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > For now. I assume the Supremacy Clause also applies to Executive Orders. Executive orders apply to the executive branch of the federal government. The governor of Maine is not subject to any presidential executive orders. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If the Federal Government passed a law outlawing laws against gender discrimination, such as outlawing gender neutral bathrooms or requiring students to be on sports teams according to their birth-assigned gender or outlawing cross-dressing and drag shows, you’re saying that the Supremacy Clause would not apply to Maine’s laws? That would not be a law made in pursuance of the Constitution, and so it wouldn’t have supremacy over anything. The Constitution does not empower Congress to pass a law mandating discrimination. And if we’re in the hypothetical where we’re ignoring the Constitution, then all bets are off anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/15 "2025-02-22T17:17:12Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > If the Federal Government passed a law outlawing laws against gender discrimination, such as outlawing gender neutral bathrooms or requiring students to be on sports teams according to their birth-assigned gender or outlawing cross-dressing and drag shows, you’re saying that the Supremacy Clause would not apply to Maine’s laws? Upon what Constitutional (or Constitutionally-derived) basis could the federal government enforce laws “outlawing [state] laws _against_ gender discrimination, such as outlawing gender neutral bathrooms or requiring students to be on sports teams according to their birth-assigned gender or outlawing cross-dressing and drag shows,…”? The ability to enforce laws prohibiting discriminatory state laws is by extension of the First and Ninth amendments to the Constitution; the converse is not true. In general, the US Constitution is intended as an expression of formal protections of maximal personal liberty with limited and well-delineated government powers and restrictions; the “Supremacy Clause” is intended to ensure that the states do not encroach on those liberties, not to allow the federal government (and certainly not the president) to tell states to do whatever they say. > [@Chronos](#): > > Executive orders apply to the executive branch of the federal government. The governor of Maine is not subject to any presidential executive orders. In this case, the executive order ([**EO 14201**](https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2025/02/11/2025-02513/keeping-men-out-of-womens-sports)) intends to revoke federal funding from any elementary, secondary, and post-secondary institution that allows transgender girls to play on girls’ teams, claiming they are in violation of Title IX civil protections (despite the fact that was contrary to the intent to Title IX). So, it isn’t an order to the states prohibit transgender athletes but a defunding of federal monies to institutions which allow transgender athletes to compete. That is ostensibly within the purview of the federal government (although whether a law it can be made so specific and prejudicial is highly questionable), and I doubt it is legitimately within executive purview to impose an executive order (which are supposed to be interpretations of how to implement existing law as policy) to do so. Whether federal and (if it gets that far) the Supreme Court will impose that view, or take a more draconian view of executive authority is another question entirely as there is a long precedent of giving the executive greater power in imposing executive orders ‘in between’ or outside of existing law rather that just directing enforcement of it. (Something both ends of hte political spectrum have been broadly in favor of, BTW, at least when their ‘guy’ was in power.) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/16 "2025-02-22T17:23:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That would not be a law made in pursuance of the Constitution, and so it wouldn’t have supremacy over anything. The Constitution does not empower Congress to pass a law mandating discrimination. I believe it a law is assumed to be constitutional until it is rules not to be. And how exactly is a Federal law outlawing multiple-person gender neutral bathrooms unconstitutional? According to MAGAs, gender neutral bathrooms should be outlawed to prevent young girls from being victimized by pedos. And for current events, I know of one school that had to close theirs as per the Department of Education despite the students and parents supporting the space. And how is banning cross-dressing and drag shows mandating gender discrimination (maybe freedom of expression but that’s not the debate here) when the Federal government officially recognizes male and female birth genders as the only two genders? And under _Rostker v Goldberg_, sexual discrimination can be allowed and I could see the current SCOTUS easily applying it to disallow genetic men (XY) from playing in women’s sports. FTR: I’m not arguing this from a political or moral perspective but purely legal. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Upon what Constitutional (or Constitutionally-derived) basis could the federal government enforce laws “outlawing [state] laws _against_ gender discrimination, such as outlawing gender neutral bathrooms or requiring students to be on sports teams according to their birth-assigned gender or outlawing cross-dressing and drag shows,…”? See above. General welfare is a nice catchall the Feds like to use to justify laws. And let’s not forget, a law is constitutional if SCOTUS says it is. Plessey v Ferguson The Slaughterhouse Cases Korematsu v United States Kelo v New London CT Wickard v Filburn The Gold Clause cases If find it ironic that the general tone on this board is that Trump can do whatever he wants and the courts will back him up, at least SCOTUS and that’s all that matters. Why wouldn’t this be more of the same. What makes you think this SCOTUS will looks at these laws and say, “You can’t do that.” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/17 "2025-02-22T17:50:39Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > General welfare is a nice catchall the Feds like to use to justify laws. I think you actually intend to refer to the “Necessary and Proper Clause” which grants: > _The Congress shall have Power… To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof._ Note that this “Power” is specifically ascribed to the Congress, _not_ the executive. The President, nor any agency, cannot pass laws or exercise authority beyond that granted by laws passed through the legislature or delineated in the US Constitution. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And let’s not forget, a law is constitutional if SCOTUS says it is. > Plessey v Ferguson > The Slaughterhouse Cases > Korematsu v United States > Kelo v New London CT > Wickard v Filburn > The Gold Clause cases > > If find it ironic that the general tone on this board is that Trump can do whatever he wants and the courts will back him up, at least SCOTUS and that’s all that matters. Why wouldn’t this be more of the same. What makes you think this SCOTUS will looks at these laws and say, “You can’t do that.” Well, that is a list of what are widely regarded as some of the worst decisions made by the US Supreme Court. But for all that, I am not at all certain that this Supreme Court will strike down these executive decisions even though they are obviously beyond the authority of the Office of President because both the Supreme Court and (especially this Republican-dominated) Congress seem just fine with allowing their authority to be usurped as long as what is being done is aligned with their ideology. I’m pretty sure that even if this order is temporarily suspended or nullified by the court that they’ll find a way to accept some broader and less obviously prejudicial form of allowing the executive control over whether schools get funding, or Trump will just have a temper tantrum and deny all federal funding for educational programs in competitive sports. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/18 "2025-02-22T18:48:03Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And how exactly is a Federal law outlawing multiple-person gender neutral bathrooms unconstitutional? Where in the Constitution is Congress given that power? ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/19 "2025-02-22T19:05:51Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > How anyone can still enable this murmuring prick is beyond me. Because his base think trans people are scary and a threat to them. It’s funny that they call liberals snowflakes when they are scared of literally everything that can’t harm them. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2025, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666/20 "2025-02-22T19:11:00Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Trump responded, “We are the federal law." This is the part I find most disturbing and it is being largely ignored. That is authoritarianism in a nutshell. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/maine-governor-spars-with-trump/1014666.md?page=2)