# Major Differences Between Modern-Day Judiasm and Modern-Day Islam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330 "2011-05-09T21:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/1 "2011-05-09T21:29:36Z")
It seems to me like these religions are very similar, and I’m looking to get some information on what differentiates the the two religions in terms of beliefs and practices. I understand that there is no monolithic “Islam” or “Judaism” but for the purposes of this thread maybe we could compare Sunni Islam as is practiced in the Middle East with Conservative and Orthodox Judaism? The similarities, as I understand them 1. Monotheism 2. Belief that the same men were prophets of God (with the exception of Jesus and Mohammed, whom only Islam believes are prophets) 3. Similar (identical?) dietary laws 4. Similar proscriptions against graven images The differences, as I understand them 1. Holidays 2. Mohammed and Jesus as prophets 3. The belief in a Messiah? 4. The need to evangelize I am not very educated in this subject matter, though, so I would be very interested in hearing more comparisons of these two religions from more knowledgeable folks. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/2 "2011-05-09T22:25:28Z")
The Torah, or the Law of Moses, which is found in the first five books of the Old Testament, especially in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, has aspects that are as harsh as Shiria Law. For example, a person who does _any work at all_ on the Sabbath can be stoned to death. That part alone would make a modern civilization impossible. Nevertheless, all 613 rules of the Torah are not practiced anywhere, not even in Israel. It is not clear that they ever were. No prominent Jews seriously advocate strict adherence to all of the 613 rules. After the Bar Kokhba revolt was crushed in 136 AD Jews were dispersed, and learned to accommodate themselves to living in societies dominated by other religious and cultures. Although Muslim countries were defeated and conquered by the Mongolians during the thirteenth and fourteenth centuries, and by European countries during the nineteenth century, Muslims have usually been self governing, and they have not learned to deal with non Muslims on terms of equality. In addition, the Islamic world has not experienced anything equivalent to the European Renaissance, or the Eighteenth Century Enlightenment. Consequently, Muslims are more likely to take literally harsh aspects of their religious tradition than are Jews. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/3 "2011-05-09T22:31:54Z")
Jewish dietary laws- no mixing dairy and meat no shellfish no fish without fins and scales no land animal that doesn’t have cloven hooves and chew its cud twice Islamic dietary laws- No pork No alcohol- this is generally take to even include certain types of vinegar as they were once alcohol. In general, kosher meat is acceptable to Muslims but not the other way round. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/4 "2011-05-09T22:41:55Z")
I believe Islamic dietary law also does not allow shellfish. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/5 "2011-05-09T23:45:54Z")
Their views on women are about the same. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/6 "2011-05-09T23:52:48Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Their views on women are about the same. :eek: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/7 "2011-05-10T00:12:10Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > It seems to me like these religions are very similar, and I’m looking to get some information on what differentiates the the two religions in terms of beliefs and practices. > > I understand that there is no monolithic “Islam” or “Judaism” but for the purposes of this thread maybe we could compare Sunni Islam as is practiced in the Middle East with Conservative and Orthodox Judaism? > > The similarities, as I understand them > > 1. Monotheism > 2. Belief that the same men were prophets of God (with the exception of Jesus and Mohammed, whom only Islam believes are prophets) > 3. Similar (identical?) dietary laws > 4. Similar proscriptions against graven images > > The differences, as I understand them > > 1. Holidays > 2. Mohammed and Jesus as prophets > 3. The belief in a Messiah? > 4. The need to evangelize > > I am not very educated in this subject matter, though, so I would be very interested in hearing more comparisons of these two religions from more knowledgeable folks. The main difference lies in the acceptance, withing Judaism, of the Halakha (the Jewish law, based on the Talmud and its commentaries) and how this is developed, studied, and implemented. > **[Halakha](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha)** > > Halakha (/hɑːˈlɔːxə/ hah-LAW-khə; Hebrew: הֲלָכָה, romanized: hălāḵā, Sephardic: \[halaˈχa\]), also transliterated as halacha, halakhah, and halocho (Ashkenazic: \[haˈlɔχɔ\]), is the collective body of Jewish religious laws that are derived from the Written and Oral Torah. Halakha is based on biblical commandments (mitzvot), subsequent Talmudic and rabbinic laws, and the customs and traditions which were compiled in the many books such as the Shulchan Aruch or Mishneh Torah. Halakha is often trans The equivalent Islamic institution would be the Hadaths, and Islamic law. > **[Hadith](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith)** > > Hadith\[b\] is the Arabic word for a 'report' or an 'account \[of an event\]': 471  and refers to the Islamic oral tradition of anecdotes containing the purported words, actions, and the silent approvals of the Islamic prophet Muhammad or his immediate circle (companions in Sunni Islam, Ahl al-Bayt in Shiite Islam). > Each hadith is associated with a chain of narrators (isnad)—a lineage of people who reportedly heard and repeated the hadith from which the source of the hadith can be traced. The authe... The difference is in approach. In Judaism, there is considerably greater ability to question within the body of Halakhalic lore; Jews are (within Judiasm) famously fractional and argumentitive - there is less of a notion that a line of argument is prohibited or forbidden, if it can be supported logically (admittedly on the wonky premises gifted by the OT - I like to think of Judaism as a supremely logical creed, based on serously treating a bit of iron-age mythology as significant :D). In Islam, because of the central unity and significance of the Koran, questioning is limited, and the ability to question somewhat curtailed. The “Hadith” are literally the “sayings” of Mohammed - the disputation is all over which of the “sayings” are authentic; as opposed to in Judaism - the disputes are not as much over authenticity, but over logic. IMO, that’s an indication as to the main difference between the religions. They have a different spirit - the spirit of Judaism is more one of a debate club, while the spirit of Islam is somewhat more authoritarian - the “authority” being the original source, and the ability to trace a line of authenticity to it. That being noted, one should not overdraw the distinction. There are authoritarian elements in Judaism, and questioning elements in Islam. It is more a question of “flavour” if you will. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/8 "2011-05-10T00:25:45Z")
A few more differences- Judaism requires prayer 3 times a day. Islam requires 5 times a day. Judaism has a few holidays requiring fasting from sunup til sundown. Islam has Ramadan, a whole month of this. The Jewish calendar is luna-solar. While based partly on the moon, various built in mechanisms make sure that the months and holidays line up right. The Islamic calendar is entirely lunar. Holidays are no longer in sync with seasons. Conversion to Judaism is a long and intensive process. One can convert to Islam merely by saying and believing “There is no G-d but G-d. Muhammed is His prophet.” There are other steps after that, but they are mere formality. IIRC A friend tells Mohammed that he has affirmed his faith. Mohammed says ‘Good now go cut off your gentile’s hair and get yourself circumcised.’ It should be noted that Judaism and Islam have a lot more in common with each other than either has with Christianity. Fer example, OTTOMH Mohammed says “G-d is one and eternally one. He can love no human woman. He can have no human son.” ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/9 "2011-05-10T00:30:58Z")
Thanks for reminding me of the circumcision point, **DocCathode** , that is another similarity. Although I believe it’s done later in Islam than Judaism. Is it even ritualistic in Islam, like it is in Judaism? ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/10 "2011-05-10T00:32:38Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The main difference lies in the acceptance, withing Judaism, of the Halakha (the Jewish law, based on the Talmud and its commentaries) and how this is developed, studied, and implemented. > > [Halakha - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halakha) > > The equivalent Islamic institution would be the Hadaths, and Islamic law. > > [Hadith - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith) > > The difference is in approach. In Judaism, there is considerably greater ability to question within the body of Halakhalic lore; Jews are (within Judiasm) famously fractional and argumentitive - there is less of a notion that a line of argument is prohibited or forbidden, if it can be supported logically (admittedly on the wonky premises gifted by the OT - I like to think of Judaism as a supremely logical creed, based on serously treating a bit of iron-age mythology as significant :D). > > In Islam, because of the central unity and significance of the Koran, questioning is limited, and the ability to question somewhat curtailed. The “Hadith” are literally the “sayings” of Mohammed - the disputation is all over which of the “sayings” are authentic; as opposed to in Judaism - the disputes are not as much over authenticity, but over logic. > > IMO, that’s an indication as to the main difference between the religions. They have a different spirit - the spirit of Judaism is more one of a debate club, while the spirit of Islam is somewhat more authoritarian - the “authority” being the original source, and the ability to trace a line of authenticity to it. > > That being noted, one should not overdraw the distinction. There are authoritarian elements in Judaism, and questioning elements in Islam. It is more a question of “flavour” if you will. Thanks **Malthus**. This post really gets at the heart of what I was asking. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/11 "2011-05-10T00:44:42Z")
The Muslim religion is not, inherently, any more dogmatic than the Jewish religion. _Both_ would be very authoritarian and brutal if they were followed to the letter. But the Muslim religion, _as practiced today,_ seems to have more people who are interested in truly following it to the letter. The Jewish religion, _as practiced today,_ does not have so many people like this. I recently read about a Masonic lodge in Israel that had Jewish, Muslim and Christian members. It was at this moment that I truly realized that the religions _can_ co-exist peacefully if their adherents can temper their faiths with humanism and dedicate themselves to finding common ground. But know this: Masonic lodges are banned in almost all Muslim countries. They are permitted in the _one_ Jewish country that exists. This says it all, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Quia\_Sic\_Dico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/bbce88/32.png) [@Quia\_Sic\_Dico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quia_Sic_Dico)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/12 "2011-05-10T00:52:41Z")
Another important difference is in the envisaging of the afterlife. The Thora is not particularly explicit in its description of what happens to a human being after he dies, but the Quran is. The Islamic representation of heaven and hell are similar to the Christian, and also includes a day of judgment. In the Quran, God is a bit more lenient than in the Bible (and, I imagine, than in the Thora where he is generally not very prone to forgiveness) as he finally allows anyone who has even a grain of goodness in his heart to enter paradise. In the 1st century Jewish text, the Testament of Abraham, only one in seven souls is granted salvation. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/13 "2011-05-10T01:01:19Z")
> [@Quia\_Sic\_Dico](#): > > Another important difference is in the envisaging of the afterlife. The Thora is not particularly explicit in its description of what happens to a human being after he dies This is an understatement. The Torah makes a few vague references to something happening to the righteous after death. Whether it’s heaven or bodily resurrection in this world is unclear. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/14 "2011-05-10T01:17:41Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Their views on women are about the same. It should probably be pointed out that Modern=Day Orthodox Judaism is not monolithic. There is a fairly wide range of attitudes toward women from progressive to “so conservative that you’d think you were still in the Stone Age.” I wouldn’t be surprised if the same thing were true of Modern-day Islam. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/15 "2011-05-10T05:00:36Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > Their views on women are about the same. There are Reconstructionist prayer books which have all the prayers reworded to be gender-neutral. Let me know when there’s a major Islamic effort to reword the hadith to be gender-neutral. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/16 "2011-05-10T06:18:37Z")
Islamic feminists do exist. It’s not a major movement, but it’s not unthinkable. The biggest difference has only been touched on with the discussion of conversion. Judaism is a tribal religion. Its set of codes, path to salvation, rituals, relationship with god, etc. are specifically for the Jewish people. The religion (and it’s version of God) is not particularly concerned with what non-Jews do, providing that they avoid the really heinous stuff. It’s totally fine not to be Jewish, and converting doesn’t really make sense. Islam is a universal, evangelical religion. It posits that it applies to everyone. Its codes, relationship with God, path to salvation and rituals are required of everyone, not just Muslims. So not being Muslim is a pretty big problem- it’s rejecting God and will leave you in bad shape in the afterlife n This creates a push for converts. And that leads to a whole different set of dynamics both internally and externally. It worth noting that Christianity and Islam are the only major religions that operate like this. For obvious reasons, a religion that motivates people to spread it will gain a lot of followers. I’d say universality and evangelism was a big step in the evolution and survival of religions as a memen ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/17 "2011-05-10T09:01:12Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > One can convert to Islam merely by saying and believing “There is no G-d but G-d. Muhammed is His prophet.” There are other steps after that, but they are mere formality. IIRC A friend tells Mohammed that he has affirmed his faith. Mohammed says ‘Good now go cut off your gentile’s hair and get yourself circumcised.’ No-one’s telling Muhammed anything. They’re telling God and the Islamic community that they’ve accepted the Islamic faith. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/18 "2011-05-10T10:27:09Z")
The first error was putting Conservative Jews and Orthodox Jews in the same boat. Hell, putting _any_ different sects in the same category is problematic. Orthodox Judaism in itself is pretty varied. I don’t even know how to do a comparison. Obviously, I think that Jewish women have it better than a lot of Muslim women do, but then again, I’m thinking about the thirteen or so million Jews compared to Islam’s billion +. ‘Modern day’ practices…I don’t even know how to define that. I do know that there are no sects of Judaism that follow the Torah to the T (regarding things like punishment and such). ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/19 "2011-05-10T13:42:40Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Islamic feminists do exist. It’s not a major movement, but it’s not unthinkable. > > The biggest difference has only been touched on with the discussion of conversion. > > Judaism is a tribal religion. Its set of codes, path to salvation, rituals, relationship with god, etc. are specifically for the Jewish people. The religion (and it’s version of God) is not particularly concerned with what non-Jews do, providing that they avoid the really heinous stuff. It’s totally fine not to be Jewish, and converting doesn’t really make sense. > > Islam is a universal, evangelical religion. It posits that it applies to everyone. Its codes, relationship with God, path to salvation and rituals are required of everyone, not just Muslims. So not being Muslim is a pretty big problem- it’s rejecting God and will leave you in bad shape in the afterlife n This creates a push for converts. And that leads to a whole different set of dynamics both internally and externally. > > It worth noting that Christianity and Islam are the only major religions that operate like this. For obvious reasons, a religion that motivates people to spread it will gain a lot of followers. I’d say universality and evangelism was a big step in the evolution and survival of religions as a memen This isn’t exactly the case for Islam - in Islam, it is theologically okay to be one of the “people of the Book”, that is, Christians or Jews. Historically, there have of course been some persecutions of Christians and Jews by Muslims, and they often had to pay a special tax when living under Muslim rule, but it is not the case that they _must_ convert. But it is certainly true that Islam readily encourages conversion (and that it is easy to convert) - and Judaism doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/20 "2011-05-10T14:52:23Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > The first error was putting Conservative Jews and Orthodox Jews in the same boat. Hell, putting _any_ different sects in the same category is problematic. Orthodox Judaism in itself is pretty varied. I’m pretty sure the comment was a joke riffing on the current flap about the ultra-Orthodox newspaper photoshopping Hillary Clinton out of the situation room photo. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330.md?page=2)