# Major Differences Between Modern-Day Judiasm and Modern-Day Islam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330 "2011-05-09T21:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/21 "2011-05-10T15:00:10Z")
Judaism no longer has any pilgrimage requirement that is the equivalent of Islam’s hajj. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/22 "2011-05-10T15:05:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Judaism no longer has any pilgrimage requirement that is the equivalent of Islam’s hajj. That’s strictly temporary. Note that a few standard prayers including wishing for the Temple to be rebuilt. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/23 "2011-05-10T15:06:31Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Judaism no longer has any pilgrimage requirement that is the equivalent of Islam’s hajj. Not a requirement like in Islam, but there is that whole “next year in Jerusalem” thing at the conclusion of the Yom Kippur service and the Passover Seder. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/24 "2011-05-10T16:03:36Z")
If Judaism did reinstate the mandatory pilgrimages, it would be a big deal for Jews. Unlike Islam, which only requires one appearance in a lifetime, the traditional Jewish requirement was an appearance at the Temple for three annual ceremonies. Imagine if Jews throughout the world had to travel to Jerusalem three times each year. ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/25 "2011-05-10T16:09:24Z")
Regarding the temple, forgive my ignorance, but why doesn’t the government of Israel just rebuild it? Is the land it needs to be built on disputed? Or does the Messiah need to rebuild it? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/26 "2011-05-10T16:14:40Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > Regarding the temple, forgive my ignorance, but why doesn’t the government of Israel just rebuild it? Is the land it needs to be built on disputed? Or does the Messiah need to rebuild it? Well, for one, there is an important mosque already built on the site - the Dome of the Rock. > **[Dome of the Rock](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dome_of_the_Rock)** > > The Dome of the Rock (Arabic: قبة الصخرة, romanized: Qubbat aṣ-Ṣaḵra) is an octagonal Islamic shrine at the center of the Al-Aqsa mosque compound on the Temple Mount in the Old City of Jerusalem. It is the world's oldest surviving work of Islamic architecture, the earliest archaeologically attested religious structure to be built by a Muslim ruler and its inscriptions contain the earliest epigraphic proclamations of Islam and of the Islamic prophet Muhammad. > Its initial construction was under... Building a new Temple would require demolishing this existing religious structure, which would not be a good idea. For another, the government of Israel isn’t itself any sort of religious institution. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/27 "2011-05-10T16:37:27Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > In Islam, because of the central unity and significance of the Koran, questioning is limited. The Koran was written by one man: Muhammad. The Old Testament, also called by the Jews “the Holy Scriptures” was written by many men, and perhaps a few women over a period of about a thousand years. There are contradictions in the Bible, and this makes debates interesting. For example, Deuteronomy 23:3-4 says, “An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord forever: Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth our of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia to curse thee.” Nevertheless, in the book of Ruth, Ruth a Moabite woman says, Chapter 1:16 “And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will loge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God.” Ruth 4:17 records that Ruth is the great grandmother of David. In other words, the birth of David, one of the most celebrated leader of the Israelites, violates the Law of Moses. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/28 "2011-05-10T16:44:26Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > Regarding the temple, forgive my ignorance, but why doesn’t the government of Israel just rebuild it? Is the land it needs to be built on disputed? Or does the Messiah need to rebuild it? As Malthus posted, the Dome of the Rock (and the Al-Aqsa Mosque) is built on the Temple Mount. In addition to the political implications of tearing down a major Muslim holy site, there would be a legal issue. Israeli law prohibits demolishing any historical religious sites. And even if the Muslim sites didn’t exist, there would be serious theological implications from within Judaism. Judaism has changed a lot since the Temple period. Rebuilding the Temple would imply changing the religion back to what it once was. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/29 "2011-05-10T16:53:07Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > As Malthus posted, the Dome of the Rock (and the Al-Aqsa Mosque) is built on the Temple Mount. > > In addition to the political implications of tearing down a major Muslim holy site, there would be a legal issue. Israeli law prohibits demolishing any historical religious sites. > > And even if the Muslim sites didn’t exist, there would be serious theological implications from within Judaism. Judaism has changed a lot since the Temple period. Rebuilding the Temple would imply changing the religion back to what it once was. Rebuilding the Temple would make Judiasm a sacrificial religion again. St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome is far more splendid than a humble Roman Catholic chapel that can only contain a congregation of twenty worshipers, but it is the same kind of religious building. It is a place where priests give mass. The Temple of Jerusalem was fundamentally different from Jewish synagogues. The synagogues are places of prayer, Bible reading, and religious instruction. The Temple was a place where animal sacrifices were given. The animals were not burned in their entirety. Only the inedible parts were burned. The flesh was consumed. Jewish laws pertaining to kosher meat come from how the Torah says the sacrificial animals are to be treated and sacrificed. The Hebrew word for “sacrifice” is the same as the Hebrew word for “slaughter.” ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/30 "2011-05-10T17:04:10Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > Regarding the temple, forgive my ignorance, but why doesn’t the government of Israel just rebuild it? Is the land it needs to be built on disputed? Or does the Messiah need to rebuild it? I think that tradition holds he ushers in the building of the Temple, but Jews who believe in a Messiah are usually Orthodox. The reason why we (er, they) don’t rebuild is because it would start a third intifada 2000x greater than before. The land is occupied and the building is restricted to Muslims atm. The Temple is supposed to meet all these requirements that we aren’t even sure of. There’s no Sanhedrin to rule on these things. Plus we don’t know where the exact spot…is. Anyway, I’d rather\*\* excavate\*\* the Temple Mount than worry about a new one. A new Temple would just serve as a tourist destination (not a bad thing) and a business for Orthodox Jews (a bad thing for the rest of us) who want to make that pilgrimage. Women would probably be restricted as well as anyone not pure according to the laws of the Torah. Mikvehs would be mandated. I’m sure you’d need a signed stamp of approval from the Israeli Rabbinate. :rolleyes: Oh, and the complications of “Who is a Kohen?” I can see it now. When did it get designated as the ‘third holiest site’ in Islam? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/31 "2011-05-10T17:19:58Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > When did it get designated as the ‘third holiest site’ in Islam? When Mohammed supposedly ascended to heaven from there. ETA: Medina is second because it’s where Mohammed and the faithful went after they were tossed out out Mecca. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/32 "2011-05-10T17:36:15Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The Koran was written by one man: Muhammad. > > The Old Testament, also called by the Jews “the Holy Scriptures” was written by many men, and perhaps a few women over a period of about a thousand years. There are contradictions in the Bible, and this makes debates interesting. > > For example, Deuteronomy 23:3-4 says, “An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord forever: Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth our of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia to curse thee.” > > Nevertheless, in the book of Ruth, Ruth a Moabite woman says, Chapter 1:16 “And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will loge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God.” > > Ruth 4:17 records that Ruth is the great grandmother of David. In other words, the birth of David, one of the most celebrated leader of the Israelites, violates the Law of Moses. She gave up allegiance to one nation and religion and joined another - that’s the significance. That’s why she’s so righteous in Judaism. So…David didn’t break any law. Ruth was as Jewish as Golda Meir. meh. they are fighting over judaism’s [third holiest site](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel%27s_Tomb), too. and [this one](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph%27s_Tomb). christians in [nazareth](http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/politics/articles/pol_0116.htm) and [bethlehem](http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=14189) have also clashed with local muslims. i guess one difference is that jews today have a much better relationship with christians than muslims do…a very strange alliance, since they want as many jews in Israel as possible so the Rapture happens and then the jews…die. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/33 "2011-05-10T17:38:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > When Mohammed supposedly ascended to heaven from there. > > ETA: Medina is second because it’s where Mohammed and the faithful went after they were tossed out out Mecca. I know the history. I mean _when_ did that become a worldwide quoted thing? I don’t think the Shiia Muslims say that. Could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/34 "2011-05-10T17:44:21Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The Koran was written by one man: Muhammad. > > The Old Testament, also called by the Jews “the Holy Scriptures” was written by many men, and perhaps a few women over a period of about a thousand years. There are contradictions in the Bible, and this makes debates interesting. Yup, the unity of the Koran makes it fundamentally different from the OT. Islam is, in basis, the creation of a single man. Even their version of the oral law is supposed to be his “sayings”, handed down. Judaism lacks that unity. > [@](#): > > For example, Deuteronomy 23:3-4 says, “An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord forever: Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth our of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia to curse thee.” > > Nevertheless, in the book of Ruth, Ruth a Moabite woman says, Chapter 1:16 “And Ruth said, Intreat me not to leave thee, or to return from following after thee: for whither thou goest, I will go; and where thou lodgest, I will loge: thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God.” > > Ruth 4:17 records that Ruth is the great grandmother of David. In other words, the birth of David, one of the most celebrated leader of the Israelites, violates the Law of Moses. It isn’t as if David himself didn’t do stuff against the laws of Moses - he did, in spades. 😃 For a famous hero, he surely did a lot of nasty stuff in his day. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/35 "2011-05-10T17:47:25Z")
I KNOW! Damn, that Bethsheba must have been hooottt. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/36 "2011-05-10T17:48:50Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > She gave up allegiance to one nation and religion and joined another - that’s the significance. That’s why she’s so righteous in Judaism. So…David didn’t break any law. Well, not in his birth … but he sure broke some during his lifetime. Think of poor Uriah the Hittite. 😉 Edit: Ninja’d. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/37 "2011-05-10T17:54:08Z")
> [@Gestalt](#): > > **Major Differences Between Modern-Day Judiasm and Modern-Day Islam?** Easy. Jews are no longer scary. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/38 "2011-05-10T17:56:53Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I know the history. I mean _when_ did that become a worldwide quoted thing? I don’t think the Shiia Muslims say that. Could be wrong. Oh, I see… not sure, really, although I’m pretty sure the Shi’a also believe Mohammed ascended to heaven from there. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/39 "2011-05-10T18:28:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Oh, I see… not sure, really, although I’m pretty sure the Shi’a also believe Mohammed ascended to heaven from there. Yeah, the differences between Shia and Sunni are all from AFTER Mohammed’s death/ascension/whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/40 "2011-05-10T18:41:34Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > i guess one difference is that jews today have a much better relationship with christians than muslims do…a very strange alliance, since they want as many jews in Israel as possible so the Rapture happens and then the jews…die. Your anti-Christian bias is so ridiculously transparent, you know? After putting so much effort into describing the differences between the different sects of Judaism and making it clear that there are significant divisions between Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, etc - you just thoughtlessly lump all Christians into one group? You think _all_ Christians are the kind who want all the Jews back in Israel just so the Rapture can happen? That’s such a tiny percentage of Christians. The majority of them think no such thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330.md?page=3)