# Major Differences Between Modern-Day Judiasm and Modern-Day Islam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330 "2011-05-09T21:29:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/81 "2011-05-11T20:15:41Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > 'scuse me, but he is **the** prophet of Alllah. No. He is the **terminal** prophet of Allah ( God ), important chiefly because he was the last. Islam recognizes a whole slew of [prophets](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam). Remember to Muslims, the likes of Abraham and Moses _were Muslims themselves_. Islam is to them not a new faith revealed, but an old faith rediscovered and reformed. Christians and Jews are misguided souls that worship the same god, but have strayed from the original faith and corrupted its teachings. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/82 "2011-05-11T20:17:22Z")
Also, I don’t understand how people think Islam and Judaism are in any way close. Or any of the three, really. Islam thinks of pre-Islam as, well, corrupted. Misguided. Anything post-Judaism (Christianity and Islam) feels that way (to some extent or another before I get pounced on). I mean, Christians use the Jewish text and interpret it differently, but it’s…prevalent. Muslims read the Quran and consider Jewish text to be, er…useful but not as central. (From the anecdotal evidence in my Saudi friends.) Sorry. I just don’t see any Noah’s Ark photos in a Muslim nursery. Look at the Six Articles of Faith: > [@](#): > > ``` > One God; > The angels of God; > The books of God, especially the Qur'an; > The prophets of God, especially Muhammad; > The Day of Judgment (or the afterlife); and > The supremacy of God's will (or predestination). > > ``` Here’s a rather [brash summary](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_principles_of_faith) in Wiki on the Jewish principles of faith. The well known ones kind of ‘came about’ in writing in a post-Judean world. I’d argue it’s largely a response to Christianity. I mean, if you’re talking about origins, the three faiths are totally different. Modern day? Well, I’d say that Presbyterian Christians are probably more in step with most Jews, but _shrug_ it’s a hard question. For Jews, the focus is being godly (via mitzvot) and people (whom you are responsible for). For Christians, it’s Jesus and Heaven. For Muslims, it’s Muhammad and Allah and Heaven. This is why, as some have pointed out, Jews aren’t concerned about proselytizing, atheists, or any of the such. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/83 "2011-05-11T20:20:03Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Replace Jews with pretty much any other group in history in that sentence and it is just as true. Do you feel like you are particularly special? Oh, forget it. Jewish businessman v. non Jewish businessman. Jewish lawyer v. non Jewish lawyer. hmm…who has a bad rap already? > [@Tamerlane](#): > > No. He is the **terminal** prophet of Allah ( God ), important chiefly because he was the last. Islam recognizes a whole slew of [prophets](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophets_of_Islam). > > Remember to Muslims, the likes of Abraham and Moses _were Muslims themselves_. Islam is to them not a new faith revealed, but an old faith rediscovered and reformed. Christians and Jews are misguided souls that worship the same god, but have strayed from the original faith and corrupted its teachings. I meant **The** as in DUM DE DUM DUM, not “the only”. Does that make sense? I didn’t mean it like how it came out. As in, the guy who changed it all? Like, anyone before him (who followed God) just had it wrong (except for a few)? Do you see Muslims practicing the laws of Moses? (Does anyone get how condescending that is?) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/84 "2011-05-11T20:23:00Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Replace Jews with pretty much any other group in history in that sentence and it is just as true. Do you feel like you are particularly special? No. Unfortunately, lots of non-Jews think Jews are “special”, and have for a long time. This has led to a lot of “special” treatment over the centuries … ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/85 "2011-05-11T20:23:36Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Also, I don’t understand how people think Islam and Judaism are in any way close. Or any of the three, really. Overlapping prophets, overlapping holy scripture, common emphasis on monotheism ( explicitly the same god according to Muslims ), related history of one sect after another budding off each other. Yeah, hard to see a relationship :D. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/86 "2011-05-11T20:39:00Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > No. > > Unfortunately, lots of non-Jews think Jews are “special”, and have for a long time. This has led to a lot of “special” treatment over the centuries … ☹ Special treat when compared to who? White Christians? Certainly not compared to innumerable other peoples I could name. Even as you discount Jewish self-identification as “special” you talk about the treatment of Jews as though it has been particularly special, it hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/87 "2011-05-11T20:45:11Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Special treat when compared to who? White Christians? > > Certainly not compared to innumerable other peoples I could name. > > Even as you discount Jewish self-identification as “special” you talk about the treatment of Jews as though it has been particularly special, it hasn’t. I beg to disagree. As far as I know, few other ethnic groups have been subjected to the same level of _sustained over centuries_ “special” treatment (culminating in a modern-day massacre of something like a third of their population, worldwide) - for the simple reason that few have been held, over the centuries, to offend against the founding principles of “white Christians” by their very existence. Though no doubt I am eliding over “unnumerable” other peoples who share this distinction. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/88 "2011-05-11T20:48:13Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Overlapping prophets, overlapping holy scripture, common emphasis on monotheism ( explicitly the same god according to Muslims ), related history of one sect after another budding off each other. > > Yeah, hard to see a relationship :D. Well, if green and yellow are related because green has yellow in it, sure. But I still look terrible in yellow. Overlapping holy scripture? In Judaism and Islam? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/89 "2011-05-11T20:50:55Z")
**Martin Hyde** , could you please tell me what other ethnic group besides Jews was prohibited from owning land in Europe, through an entire millenium when the _only_ thing that truly established any kind of power and agency was the ownership of land? Who? I’m waiting… … … … . ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/90 "2011-05-11T21:16:11Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > **Martin Hyde** , could you please tell me what other ethnic group besides Jews was prohibited from owning land in Europe, through an entire millenium when the _only_ thing that truly established any kind of power and agency was the ownership of land? > > Who? > > I’m waiting… > > … > > … > .. > > . Gypsies? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/91 "2011-05-11T21:31:35Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Gypsies? Not so; while the Romani peoples were subject to much official persecution, they were not _prohibited_ from becomming settled on the land … on the contrary, they were often persecuted exactly _for_ their nomadic habits. Take for example the situation in England, where “Egyptians” were, by law, to be forcibly expelled … _unless_ they agreed to become sedentary. > **[English Gypsies and State Policies](https://books.google.com/books?id=XVh8mB-7n7wC&pg=PA21&dq=egyptians%2Bact%2B1554&cd=3&hl=en#v=onepage&q=egyptians%20act%201554&f=false)** > > After an overview of Gypsy persecution in Europe from the earliest days to the Nazi holocaust the book describes the efforts of central government in England to control Gypsies by legislation. The author describes the severe anti-Gypsy legislation of... ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/92 "2011-05-11T22:04:28Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > 'scuse me, but he is **the** prophet of Alllah No, he’s one of three. > [@](#): > > What’s the Muslim concept of God? The same as the Hebrew Bible. > [@](#): > > Help me out. Where do Muslims go when they die? Olam Ha ba. Islam has essentially the same eschatology as Judiasm - resurrection of the dead, and judgement day. That’s not really a _tjheological_ issue, though. Theology, strictly speaking, only realtes to the nature of God himself. In that, there is zero difference between Judaism and Islam. They worship the same God with the same attributes. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/93 "2011-05-11T22:04:41Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I beg to disagree. > > As far as I know, few other ethnic groups have been subjected to the same level of _sustained over centuries_ “special” treatment (culminating in a modern-day massacre of something like a third of their population, worldwide) - for the simple reason that few have been held, over the centuries, to offend against the founding principles of “white Christians” by their very existence. > > Though no doubt I am eliding over “unnumerable” other peoples who share this distinction. The only difference in the way Jews were treated versus all the other peoples white Christians essentially “erased” as cultures is that Jews still exist. So in a way they are notable in that their treatment didn’t fully destroy them as a people. I suspect that is for two reasons: 1. Both Christianity and Islam actually _historically_ tolerated Judaism better than they did other religions. Paganism was essentially wiped out because Christians just refused to accept it, period. Judaism was harshly assaulted by Christianity, but at enough points in European history enough rulers were willing to tolerate the presence of unconverted Jews that Judaism lived. Unconverted pagans were massacred over and over until the only ones left converted. 2. Most pagan tribes clung to their ancestral land/region, and thus were “one easy target” and were gradually destroyed/assimilated. By being dispersed the Jews were not so easy to snuff out permanently. So if there is anything unique in the treatment of Jews, it is that they were treated _much less harshly_ than pretty much any other minority group in the history of “Christian Europe.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/94 "2011-05-11T22:06:19Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Overlapping holy scripture? In Judaism and Islam? 😕 Yes. This is a surprise to you? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/95 "2011-05-11T22:09:39Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > **Martin Hyde** , could you please tell me what other ethnic group besides Jews was prohibited from owning land in Europe, through an entire millenium when the _only_ thing that truly established any kind of power and agency was the ownership of land? > > Who? > > I’m waiting… > > … > > … > .. > > . Can you name any other major non-Christian group aside from Jews that were allowed to exist at all in Europe? Aside from the Gypsies, who also have traditionally suffered immensely, I can’t think of many/any. You do realize all the Picts, Celts, Gaels and et cetera have essentially been exterminated? Obviously the waters are murky because they were not literally killed to the last man, but as a _culture_ they were destroyed. The physical humans that remained only remained because they adopted the culture of Christian conquerors and missionaries. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/96 "2011-05-11T22:10:25Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > I meant **The** as in DUM DE DUM DUM, not “the only”. This is still incorrect. Islam recognizes three major prophets - Mises, Jesus and Muhammed. It doesn’t ha a “THE” prophet. > [@](#): > > As in, the guy who changed it all? Like, anyone before him (who followed God) just had it wrong (except for a few)? This is not a teaching of Islam. > [@](#): > > Do you see Muslims practicing the laws of Moses? Yes. > [@](#): > > (Does anyone get how condescending that is?) How so? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/97 "2011-05-11T22:18:05Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Not so; while the Romani peoples were subject to much official persecution, they were not _prohibited_ from becomming settled on the land … on the contrary, they were often persecuted exactly _for_ their nomadic habits. > > Take for example the situation in England, where “Egyptians” were, by law, to be forcibly expelled … _unless_ they agreed to become sedentary. > > [English Gypsies and State Policies - David Mayall - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=XVh8mB-7n7wC&pg=PA21&dq=egyptians+act+1554&cd=3&hl=en#v=onepage&q=egyptians%20act%201554&f=false) What happened if I was a Muslim merchant in 1300 AD and I moved to England and wanted to buy a parcel of land and start a manor? Or if I was a practitioner of one of the pre-Christian European religions? By and large people who were not seen as adhering to Christianity were executed or slaughtered. It is actually remarkable that the insanely racist, xenophobic, and bigoted European Christians of the Dark/Middle Ages tolerated Jews at all. It isn’t like the Jewish communities in Europe could have survived if the local elites did not wish them, they were smaller in number than any number of major pagan tribes/peoples that were forcefully subdued and converted. I would instead posit the treatment of Jews in Europe is actually only notable in its leniency. And while the Holocaust was obviously not lenient, it was only remarkable because it happened in the 20th century and in a “modern” country. The sad truth is deliberate extermination of peoples has happened hundreds of times (many times more holistically than the holocaust) throughout human history. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/98 "2011-05-12T02:52:49Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The same as the Hebrew Bible. Can you explain it to me in Islamic terms? > [@](#): > > Olam Ha ba. That’s a pretty different concept than what Muslims believe. 😕 > [@](#): > > Islam has essentially the same eschatology as Judiasm - resurrection of the dead, and judgement day. That’s not really a _tjheological_ issue, though. Theology, strictly speaking, only realtes to the nature of God himself. In that, there is zero difference between Judaism and Islam. They worship the same God with the same attributes. Can you cite some sources? Because I thought that theology was the study of a religion or dogma pertaining to a religion. If you mean that both Jews and Muslims believe that God created the world, great. But if you mean to say that our concept of God in his relation to the world and to people, then…no. The same goes for Abraham. Abraham was our patriarch. The Muslims say that he was the first Muslim. :mad: But hey, whatever. They also claim Ishmael as the father of their nation and the one who was originally meant to be sacrificed (apparently Jews had their history wrong). Our views of (and historical relationship with) Abraham - and God - are quite different. Also can you please cite for me something that says Muslims read the Torah and count it as holy scripture? If you mean by scripture, words of God, sure, but they also say it’s incorrect (as how it is written) and they only follow the Koran. You also said they follow the laws of Moses. Well, Christians claim to follow some too, but they don’t _follow the laws of Moses_ the way Jews do (or try to or are supposed to). So I’m just wondering if you could explain to me how it all works. Since the laws of Moses are, well, written down wrong. And stuff. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/99 "2011-05-12T03:02:05Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > It isn’t like the Jewish communities in Europe could have survived if the local elites did not wish them, they were smaller in number than any number of major pagan tribes/peoples that were forcefully subdued and converted. Jews have been persecuted almost everywhere. It wasn’t just within Europe. It would appear that Jews are pretty fricking determined to go on. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330/100 "2011-05-12T03:22:07Z")
> [@CitizenPained](#): > > Can you explain it to me in Islamic terms? They’re the same as Hebrew terms. Pretty simple. “There is no God but God.” > [@](#): > > That’s a pretty different concept than what Muslims believe. 😕 How so? > [@](#): > > Can you cite some sources? Try a dictionary. > [@](#): > > Because I thought that theology was the study of a religion or dogma pertaining to a religion. No, in strict academic terms, “theology” is the study of God (the Greek roots literally mean “discussion of God”). When I say “there is no theological difference” between the Islam and Judaism, I am saying that they use identical definitions and understanding of what God is. > [@](#): > > If you mean that both Jews and Muslims believe that God created the world, great. But if you mean to say that our concept of God in his relation to the world and to people, then…no You are wrong. They have exactly the same concept of God. It IS the same God. Muhammed worshipped the Jewish God and said so. > [@](#): > > The same goes for Abraham. Abraham was our patriarch. He was the Muslim’s patriarch too. He built the Kaaba. > [@](#): > > The Muslims say that he was the first Muslim. :mad: Why does that make you mad. It’s true. > [@](#): > > But hey, whatever. They also claim Ishmael as the father of their nation and the one who was originally meant to be sacrificed (apparently Jews had their history wrong). Appealing to history is laughable since we’rte talking about mythology, not history. Abraham is not a historical figure, so “history” has no application. Islamic mythology about that character is just as valid as Jewish mythology. > [@](#): > > Our views of (and historical relationship with) Abraham - and God - are quite different. No, not really. Sorry. That has nothing to do with whether they worship the same God anyway. > [@](#): > > Also can you please cite for me something that says Muslims read the Torah and count it as holy scripture? If you mean by scripture, words of God, sure, but they also say it’s incorrect (as how it is written) and they only follow the Koran. No one said they count it as holy scripture, but it “overlaps” with the Koran in that it uses many of the same characters and stories. Islam began asessentially a Jewish sect. > [@](#): > > You also said they follow the laws of Moses. Well, Christians claim to follow some too, but they don’t _follow the laws of Moses_ the way Jews do (or try to or are supposed to). So I’m just wondering if you could explain to me how it all works. Muslims follow pretty much the same dietary laws, and you’re moving the goalposts, since plenty of Jews ignore Mosaic law. A Muslim who keeps Halal is following Mosaic law more than a liberal Jew. Muslims and Jews worship the same God, have many of the same imaginary heroes and follow many of the same archaic supoerstitions. Christianity struck out completely on it’s own with a totally different theology and much weirder superstitions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-differences-between-modern-day-judiasm-and-modern-day-islam/581330.md?page=6)