# Major event upcoming on TCM **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 24, 2007, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193 "2007-01-24T02:22:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/21 "2007-01-24T07:00:41Z")
Dude, I don’t know what your goal here is, but by being able to track down every instance of the film’s showing, in the whole country, over a 10 year period–which, what, are fewer than 10 so far?–that is exactly what you’re proving. It was shown, chopped up, on The Movie Channel, _eight years ago?_ It’s been shown three times in seven years in _New York City?_ Seriously, Walloon, I cannot fathom a film being harder to see. A question: is this the first time you’ve heard of this film? Are you just “fact checking” in order to bust my balls? Because, as someone who’s obsessively been trying to see this movie since June of 1998, and has left no stone unturned in trying to find an opportunity to see it, and coming across other film buffs who’ve been on the same quest, I can tell you pretty equivocally that it’s an astonishingly rare film to see–especially considering it’s a Billy Wilder film starring Kirk Douglas. Now, there are rarer films: of the movies listed in the article linked above, I’d seen 17 when it was published. By the time I saw _Ace in the Hole_, 6 or 7 years after I begain checking films off that list, I was down to having seen all \*but _17. Since then I’ve tracked down a few more, some by means that would be frowned upon by the sponsors of this board_. The rarest, the ones I have not been able to track down even by shady means, are as follows: \* Bigger Than Life Eadweard Muybridge, Zoopraxographer 11 x 14 Laughter Lonesome Man’s Castle My Son John Scenes From Under Childhood The Steel Helmet Tom, Tom, the Piper’s Son \* The titles that are about as rare, or rarer, than _Ace in the Hole_, and seeing them took some doing: \*Confessions of an Opium Eater The Crowd Killer of Sheep Make Way for Tomorrow The Phenix City Story Reminiscences of a Journey to Lithuania The Sound of Fury/Try and Get Me! Vinyl \* Of all those movies, having spent 9 years obsessively tracking them down, I’d put _Ace in the Hole_ about midlevel in rarity–that’s among these rarities; if any of these titles showed up on TCM, they’d inspire a thread from me. The rest of the list is relatively available. If not currently in print, then used copies are floating around, or they occasionally show up on TCM. By all these standards–and by my experience on the ground in trying to find a way to see it screened–_Ace in the Hole_ is unquestionably a rarity. Sorry if that bothers you, though I cannot imagine why it would. \*aaar matey ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/22 "2007-01-24T07:11:26Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] It was shown, chopped up, on The Movie Channel, _eight years ago?_ [/quote] If you didn’t see it, then what do you mean it was shown “chopped up”? It was shown complete and uninterrupted on The Movie Channel. > [@](#): > > A question: is this the first time you’ve heard of this film? I’ve seen it several times over the years, in 35mm and on television. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/23 "2007-01-24T08:07:28Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] Seriously, Walloon, I cannot fathom a film being harder to see. [/QUOTE] I have a _lonnnnnng_ list (\>200) on my TiVo of Hollywood movies, including several Oscar nominees for Best Picture, Best Actor, and Best Actress, that haven’t been shown anywhere on cable television in the U.S. in the last _19 years_ (yes, that’s how long I’ve been looking). Makes _Ace in the Hole_ seem like a man-about-town. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/24 "2007-01-24T08:10:05Z")
P.S. **Lissener** is right: _Ace in the Hole_ is a great movie. Watch it when it’s on. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/25 "2007-01-24T08:58:00Z")
To the pit, walloon. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/26 "2007-01-24T10:47:59Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] Since then I’ve tracked down a few more, some by means that would be frowned upon by the sponsors of this board\*. [/QUOTE] Thanks to a certain obscure (heh) online auction site I was able to nail a copy of _The Woman in Black_. The BBC may or may not have seen a penny (pfennig?) from the transaction, but it was the only way to get a copy. Any time I see a thread about hard to find/view movies this one (TWIB) always comes to mind. It isn’t flashy, it isn’t loaded with visual effects (in fact, it’s starkly absent of any), but it’s a good story that still seems creepy. Probably better in book form based on the feel, but I fell in love with the film the first time I saw it all those years ago. My sisters and brother also love it, but I’ll stop short on saying how I got them a copy. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/27 "2007-01-24T11:04:14Z")
What has kept _Ace in the Hole_ off the air for the last seven years is nothing more sinister than an underlying literary rights dispute, the most common reason why good movies sometimes disappear down rabbit holes (or down a cave in this case). Hollywood writer Victor Desny dictated a synopsis to Billy Wilder’s secretary in November 1949, which Wilder then rejected. After the film’s release, credited to other writers, Desny sued Wilder and Paramount in a $150,000 breach of contract suit, that went all the way to the California Supreme Court in 1956, with the court ruling in Desny’s favor.\* As part of a private settlement with Paramount, Desny got a cash payment and the reversion rights to his story after 50 years — which explains the last commercial showing of _Ace in the Hole_ on television: in November 1999. After that, Paramount had to negotiate with Desny’s estate for a new literary rights license, which remained unsettled for years, during which _Ace in the Hole_ was seen only in non-profit and archival showings. The lack of a rights license is also what kept _Ace in the Hole_ off home video. [Desny v. Wilder (1956) 46 C2d 715](http://online.ceb.com/calcases/C2/46C2d715.htm). - Despite the defendants being represented by one of the best copyright lawyers around, Melville Nimmer, who literally wrote the book on U.S. copyright law. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/28 "2007-01-24T11:54:32Z")
How disappointing. I was hoping for a conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/29 "2007-01-24T11:58:26Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] Thanks to a certain obscure (heh) online auction site I was able to nail a copy of _The Woman in Black_. [/QUOTE] I owe my success in tracking down copies of about 80% of the second short list in my post #21 above to such an obscure site. I wish, in these days of nearly overyhead-free distribution possibilities, such things would be made more available. To keep such things in the dark over rights squabbles strikes me as criminal. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/30 "2007-01-24T16:36:25Z")
I actually have some relatives who were extras in this. The producer’s son took the younguns on the carnival rides during the filming. Another, being a part-time deputy, played a deputy. (Typecasting!) In those days, when you first got a SS card, the name of the employer was printed on the back. One relative still has her original with “Paramount Pictures” on it. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/31 "2007-01-24T16:53:43Z")
**lissener,** I saw “The Crowd” by checking it out from the King County Library. The great thing is, if you can cultivate a librarian, and it isn’t too pricey, they’ll buy videos & DVD’s for the library at your suggestion. I was trying to get them to buy a copy of “Oh What A Lovely War” before I moved down here. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/32 "2007-01-24T17:44:56Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] Thanks to a certain obscure (heh) online auction site I was able to nail a copy of _The Woman in Black_. The BBC may or may not have seen a penny (pfennig?) from the transaction, but it was the only way to get a copy. [/QUOTE] I read the book a few weeks ago. It’s excellent. I went looking for the DVD and all I could find were pricey bootlegs. Susan Hill’s website says there are no legitimate copies available. How would she know that? The movie was released on DVD. Surely people have copies and surely some of those people might be selling them. Glad to hear the movie did justice to the book. I don’t suppose your copy is available for loaning? I’d pay ya! 🙂 **lissener** , thanks again for this thread. I’ve set the DVR. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/33 "2007-01-24T19:39:43Z")
I saw the movie years ago-its a great flick! great performance by kirk Douglas-also-notice Sam Drucker (“GREEN ACRES”) in there? Question: who played the priest (summoned to give last ritesto the trapped man)? ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2007, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/34 "2007-01-24T22:21:38Z")
[Lester Dorr](http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0234032/). ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/35 "2007-01-25T01:38:42Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] [Lester Dorr](http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0234032/). [/QUOTE] Only 377 movies to his credit? What a piker. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/36 "2007-01-25T02:44:49Z")
Just a bump for anyone who missed this: it’s on in less than five hours. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/37 "2007-01-25T03:44:19Z")
My DVR is set, as are those of several friends I alerted after seeing this thread. Thanks for the heads-up, **lissener**. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/38 "2007-01-25T03:47:10Z")
I also wish to thank the OP for the heads-up. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/39 "2007-01-25T03:50:35Z")
[QUOTE=Slithy Tove] **lissener,** if you can cultivate a librarian, and it isn’t too pricey, they’ll buy videos & DVD’s for the library at your suggestion. [/QUOTE] This is true. Back in the 90s, I was instrumental in persuading the Decatur AV librarian to buy _Fitzcarraldo_ and _Aguirre: The Wrath of God_. All I hadda do was drop a slip in the Suggestion Box. I think he was grateful for suggestions that didn’t involve _Lethal Weapon_ sequels. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2007, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193/40 "2007-01-25T04:01:52Z")
I managed to snag _The Crowd_ the one time I saw it on TCM in the last 7 years (maybe Walloon can whip out his factcheck-fu to let me know if I’ve missed subsequent showings). Scarecrow Video also has a beat up VHS copy. And I recently found a Hong Kong-made DVD on eBay (arr matey). I called it rare because it’s one of the titles on that list that you can’t simply decide one day to go see; you have to make a serious effort to track it down. As far as the Library, the Seattle Public Library is horrifically underfunded for such things; all of my many requests have fallen on deaf ears. In addition, needless to say the library can only buy an official copy through a legitimate distributor: all the titles on my rarities are, since I last checked anyway, unavailable through such channels. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-event-upcoming-on-tcm/389193.md?page=3)