# Major Frank Burns : Immigrant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 10, 2017, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107 "2017-12-10T15:08:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/41 "2017-12-21T02:21:03Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Henry couldn’t remember his wife’s first name. Henry: **All I know is what they taught me at command school**. There are certain rules about a war, and rule number one is that young men die. And rule number two is that doctors can’t change rule number one. Stop giving him crap. The instructors in command school never taught Henry his wife’s name! 🙂 And remember when Henry was in L-U-V? Obviously he wasn’t wrapped tightly enough, if you get what I mean. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/42 "2017-12-21T14:44:31Z")
OK OK, important question here: Frank Burns – does he or does he not eat worms? ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/43 "2017-12-21T16:12:29Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > OK OK, important question here: Frank Burns – does he or does he not eat worms? You tell 'em, Ferret Face! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/44 "2017-12-21T16:17:24Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Alan Alda actually did serve as an Army officer in Korea, but it was much later, after the cessation of military action. I was trying to point out (poorly) why Farr had acting credits on the same year he was in the military. He was drafted after his career started. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/45 "2017-12-21T16:29:04Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > My dad was one of those guys. There was a regulation that if you didn’t serve a full 365 days in combat in WWII and were a member of the inactive reserve, you were subject to recall to fight in Korea. Charles Schulz mentioned he almost had to go back as well under this rule. My father served something like 10 months in the Navy before the war ended, and when Korea started, he got recalled. He didn’t want to go back on a ship in the Navy (which he had hated), so he ran downtown and enlisted in the Air Force before they could stick him back in the Navy. He owned a photography studio in 1950 and thought he could get a job as a staff photographer or journalist in the Air Force, instead they made him an aerial photographer and he had to fly over enemy-held territory to take surveillance photos and the planes he was in got shot down twice. He narrowly escaped being captured and held as a POW. Interesting. I read about one American\* in the RAF, who had joined up pre-Pearl Harbor and served in Bomber Command, flying Lancasters, IIRC. When the war ended he returned home and found a draft notice awaiting him. They were extremely unsympathetic to his pleas. So before they could induct him he went and joined up the USAF. Ended up flying B-29 in Korea and B-52 early on in Vietnam. \*From memory, he was the born the son of British immigrants, his father had been at the Somme in fact. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/46 "2017-12-21T17:24:50Z")
Continuing my theory that the 4077th was a dumping ground for people with memory issues … There are cases worse than not remembering your family history. Some people couldn’t remember their own name! E.g., there was Sidney Freedman aka Milton Freedman, Col. Potter aka Gen. Steele, and many of the nurses and other background characters. Never mind the real winner here of Col. Flagg aka … too many to mention. The mental dissonance also extended to the Koreans: KPA, ROK and general civilians who kept popping up in different personas and even on different sides. Maybe it was gas fumes. Ask Abed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/47 "2017-12-21T20:43:13Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Possibly, but Hawkeye is talking about the songs of WWII (as if they were the distant past), and mentions “I remember lying on the rug, listening to them sing that on the radio.” which really sounds like he was a little kid at the time. > . Total fanwank: He was drafted or enlisted at 18 in 1944, so in 1940 he was 14? ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/48 "2017-12-21T20:45:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Total fanwank: He was drafted or enlisted at 18 in 1944, so in 1940 he was 14? Both “Der Fuehrer’s Face” and “I’ll Be Home For Christmas” are from 1943. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/49 "2017-12-21T20:47:00Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > Both “Der Fuehrer’s Face” and “I’ll Be Home For Christmas” are from 1943. Well, he’d be 17, right? Still a “kid”? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/50 "2017-12-21T20:50:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Total fanwank: He was drafted or enlisted at 18 in 1944, so in 1940 he was 14? That’d make him 19 or so in 1945, and just 5-7 years to finish college, medical school, complete a surgical residency… Was his original nickname “Doogie” ? ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/51 "2017-12-21T21:53:18Z")
Trying to construct a workable timeline for _M_A_S_H\* is a fool’s errand, as many people have figured out. Apart from the various anachronisms, and the “year-long” episode mentioned by **Skywatcher** (which took place in the 9th season, but began at the end of 1950–suggesting that the first 8 seasons had all taken place within about 6 months), they often seemed to forget that they were making a period piece. This is evident in some of the very '70s hairstyles that show up in later episodes, but also in lines of dialogue that treat the World War II era as something from an earlier generation, even though for the characters it would have ended only five years before. Thus we have references to Hawkeye listening to World War II songs “as a kid,” or Trapper seeing Ted Williams at Fenway Park during his internship. To return to the OP’s actual question, I think that the mention of Frank’s family coming to American in 1927 is similar. The joke is that Frank has the fierce patriotism of someone whose ancestors were fighting alongside General Washington at Valley Forge–when in reality his family were quite recent immigrants. I doubt that the writers gave it any more thought than that, and I _really_ doubt they expected anyone to start doing the math to work out whether Frank had been born yet when the immigration happened. They just forgot how "recent’ 1927 would have been for the characters, since for the writers it surely felt like quite a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/52 "2017-12-22T01:19:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I was trying to point out (poorly) why Farr had acting credits on the same year he was in the military. He was drafted after his career started. Again, interesting. I know about the draft, but I was wondering if maybe the military gave him leave to appear in the movie (his part in it is very small). It would have been good publicity, especially if he was in Special Services, as were many other Hollywood actors (e.g., Leonard Nimoy). Bill Mauldin of _ **Stars and Stripes** _ and _ **Up Front** _ fame wrote a book called _ **In Korea** _, in which Willie or Joe (I don’t remember which) serves as a civilian war correspondent, telling about his experiences there in letters to his old buddy back in the States. It mirrored Bill’s own experiences during the Korean War. I read the book when I was in junior high, and highly recommend it. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/53 "2017-12-22T01:34:20Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > To return to the OP’s actual question, I think that the mention of Frank’s family coming to American in 1927 is similar. The joke is that Frank has the fierce patriotism of someone whose ancestors were fighting alongside General Washington at Valley Forge–when in reality his family were quite recent immigrants. I doubt that the writers gave it any more thought than that, and I _really_ doubt they expected anyone to start doing the math to work out whether Frank had been born yet when the immigration happened. They just forgot how "recent’ 1927 would have been for the characters, since for the writers it surely felt like quite a while ago. I agree with all this (and you see it all the time - in “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” people who were supposedly born in 1981 talk about 1980s culture as if it were theirs (Buffy and Cordelia bond over the cool James Spader is, and Xander quotes Michael Jackson songs from “Thriller”)). ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/54 "2017-12-22T13:40:41Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Ever notice how the nurses loved being sexually harassed back then. Imagine dropping a shower wall exposing a nude nurse today. Very military. > That’s believable, right? [Ooooh,](http://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1168729/air-force-releases-annual-sexual-assault-report/) [I don’t know](https://www.salon.com/2014/08/05/rape_culture_at_the_air_force_academy_the_shocking_truth_no_one_wants_to_confront/) [about alla that.](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/04/opinion/sunday/what-happens-when-a-rape-goes-unreported.html) I’d say it is more than believable. It’s the truth. You think the culture of rape and sexual harassment is non-existent in the US Military across all branches? Gee. Really? :dubious: Yes. Imagine dropping a shower wall therefore exposing an unclothed female member of the U.S. military today. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/55 "2017-12-22T15:59:01Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > Or Frank simply perjured himself. It’s not perjury if it’s not material to the case. > [@MrAtoz](#): > > …The joke is that Frank has the fierce patriotism of someone whose ancestors were fighting alongside General Washington at Valley Forge… Not sure if this is a whoosh, or a comment on Frank’s likely ignorance of American history, but there was no fighting at Valley Forge. It was a winter encampment. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/56 "2017-12-22T16:19:31Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Not sure if this is a whoosh, or a comment on Frank’s likely ignorance of American history, but there was no fighting at Valley Forge. It was a winter encampment. More like a quick typing of the first Revolutionary War name that occurred to me. Substitute “Trenton” or “Yorktown” if you’d like. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/57 "2017-12-22T20:17:13Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Not sure if this is a whoosh, or a comment on Frank’s likely ignorance of American history, but there was no fighting at Valley Forge. It was a winter encampment. Take it from me: Fighting the cold is _fighting_. MASH exists in three incarnations, novel, movie, and TV series. (Yes, there were multiple novels after the first. They’re not relevant to anyone except the heirs to Hornberger’s estate.) The novel was very much set in the Korean War, by and about someone who was there, as a slice-of-life piece. The film was a Korean War film for a Vietnam War audience with an anti-war message. The TV series was primarily a sit-com, by and for people who largely expected sit-coms to be fairly escapist, and was groundbreaking to the extent it injected some notes of drama and pathos and shut off the laugh track when they were visually showing the gore. (… I’m not bashing the TV series. I love it and have for years. One of the writers, Ken Levine, [has a wonderful blog](http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/) and is very generous with stories from the old days and takes on modern TV culture and is now even doing a podcast on top of that. But compared to what a modern show could do, _M_A_S_H\* is fluff.) My point is, only two of those pieces of media could even have a consistent timeline, given the constraints each of them operated under, and it’s possible none of them could be absolutely 100% accurate in their history, given the fallibility of human memory. The TV series did a fairly good job keeping its own story straight, given the usual lack of internal consistency of sit-coms of that era. And now it seems so old-fashioned and of its era. It’s interesting how little ground the groundbreaking works of the past managed to break. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/58 "2017-12-22T20:26:39Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > One of the writers, Ken Levine, [has a wonderful blog](http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/) and is very generous with stories from the old days and takes on modern TV culture and is now even doing a podcast on top of that. [And speak of the devil, from today’s post on Ken’s blog](http://kenlevine.blogspot.com/2017/12/friday-questions_22.html): > [@](#): > > \*\*Could some of the doctor/nurse banter during MASH be considered sexual harassment today? > > Would you have to be more careful writing stuff like that now?\*\* > > I suppose it would, but remember, this show is set in the 1950’s. There was a very different sensibility back then. So it’s not fair to judge the doctors’ behavior based on today’s standards. > > If I were writing it today I might back off a little but not much. We tried to stay true to the era. It’s his Friday Questions post, where he collects questions over the week and answers a selection on Friday. Questioner in bold. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/59 "2017-12-22T20:34:14Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > … > > And now it seems so old-fashioned and of its era. It’s interesting how little ground the groundbreaking works of the past managed to break. And yet in the same time, I think All in the Family did far more groundbreaking. M_A_S_H broke ground, All in the Family changed TV for the better by a much larger extent. I mean Mary Tyler Moore show broke ground but is completely tame by today’s standards. SOAP broke ground but no more than M_A_S_H really. Then there was All in the Family. I wish the show’s humor held up more because it was probably the greatest sitcom in TV history, but I would rather watch the Dick Van Dyke Show or Barney Miller then All in the Family. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107/60 "2017-12-23T18:54:08Z")
There’s an episode on now that’s taking place as the Chinese cross the border. That happened in October 1950. But the cast for this episode includes Col Potter and BJ. So that implies all the episodes with Col Blake and Trapper John took place before then; in what would have been the first four months of the war. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/major-frank-burns-immigrant/804107.md?page=4)