# Majority HS students say newspapers should not publish w/o gov't approval **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778 "2005-02-18T19:57:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/1 "2005-02-18T19:57:11Z")
And nearly 20% think Americans should be prohibited from expressing unpopular opinions. This from a commentary in today’s LA Times by [Bill Maher](http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-maher18feb18,0,2049194.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions). I’m sure it was in other papers too. And I’m just dumbfounded, and a little bit scared for the future. I’m hoping someone can tell me that Maher is known to be a liar and and exaggerator, and can reassure me that this is a good example of it. I’m not too optimistic about getting that reassurance; most of the times I’ve heard Bill Maher, he’s made a good deal of sense. I admit, I consider myself a liberal, and am probably more sypmpathetic to his views than most people, but still. I assume that he’s not outright lying. Or are we seeing the twilight of free speech and democracy? We’ve talked about that a good deal here, but it’s usually not the upcoming generation of new voters that scares us. I get very worried when anyone argues that, due to where we are now, we can no longer afford this or that right. While reading the recent [Prohibition](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=302834) thread, I recalled the fact that, in the 1920s, some advocates of Prohibition argued essentially that, because people now had automobiles, we could no longer afford individuals the luxury of deciding whether or not to consume alcohol–because a few people would drink and drive. Debate, discuss, frighten, reassure. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/2 "2005-02-18T20:05:19Z")
This was discussed in a previous thread and I’ve seen it mentioned in other news sources, so it’s the truth. That said, I am always leery of stuff like this; if you ask it the right way, people will tend to agree with almost any question in whatever direction you want them to. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/3 "2005-02-18T20:08:00Z")
And now you know why most high school students can’t vote. I’m sure he’s telling the truth. Finding alarming surveys is not difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/4 "2005-02-19T00:23:50Z")
And **no** HS student **ever** tried to mess with an adult’s head, by saying shocking things. Nope. No. Never. ---
**Author:** ![Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e56c9b/32.png) [@Mirror\_Image\_egamI\_rorriM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mirror_Image_egamI_rorriM)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/5 "2005-02-19T01:14:39Z")
I don’t know about that. I’m a high school student, and I happen to know that a lot of kids lie on surveys because they think it’s funny. Or they only asked a school’s worth of kids, and most of them happened to be dumb kids. (Also, I voted.) ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/6 "2005-02-19T01:21:08Z")
If ever there was a reason to not raise the admission age to the SDMB, this is it. ---
**Author:** ![ReuvenB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@ReuvenB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ReuvenB)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/7 "2005-02-19T01:30:55Z")
> [@Mirror Image egamI rorriM](#): > > I don’t know about that. I’m a high school student, and I happen to know that a lot of kids lie on surveys because they think it’s funny. Or they only asked a school’s worth of kids, and most of them happened to be dumb kids. > > (Also, I voted.) I didn’t vote, but as a high school student, I can vouch for this. My peers are stupid, but not THAT stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/8 "2005-02-19T01:33:52Z")
> [@Mirror Image egamI rorriM](#): > > I don’t know about that. I’m a high school student, and I happen to know that a lot of kids lie on surveys because they think it’s funny. Or they only asked a school’s worth of kids, and most of them happened to be dumb kids. > > (Also, I voted.) As a high school student who lied on surveys like this because I thought it was funny I don’t take any of these surveys at face value. ---
**Author:** ![Well](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df788c/32.png) [@Well](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Well)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/9 "2005-02-19T06:18:02Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Or are we seeing the twilight of free speech and democracy? Well, if you could cite a poll from the dawn of free speech and democracy that is any different than the current one shows then maybe the sky _is_ falling. From my experience, Social Studies ranks right up there with the basic 3 R’s in high school. Aparently they assume you know the basics previously and a social science class was an obscure elective class IIRC. Hell more boys my age chose home ec to be with the girls. (wich was not many) Anecdotally, to my eternal chagrin I was quite shocked when in my senior year I found out that the Soviet Union had collapsed. My high school ring says “_Class of '92_”. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/10 "2005-02-19T12:00:46Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > And now you know why most high school students can’t vote. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/11 "2005-02-19T13:02:16Z")
> [@laigle](#): > > Yet. Once in a while, people do learn things as they get older. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/12 "2005-02-19T13:44:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Once in a while, people do learn things as they get older. Once in a while, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/13 "2005-02-19T14:08:33Z")
[http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-01-30-students-press\_x.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-01-30-students-press_x.htm) I think that is the article he is referring to. 74% say people shouldn’t be able to burn or deface an American flag as a political statement; 75% mistakenly believe it is illegal. WTF. it is illegal in indiana. Mistaken my ass. IC 35-45-1-4 Flag desecration Sec. 4. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally mutilates, defaces, burns, or tramples any United States flag, standard, or ensign commits flag desecration, a Class A misdemeanor. Not that I support that kind of law. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/14 "2005-02-19T15:15:02Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > 74% say people shouldn’t be able to burn or deface an American flag as a political statement; 75% mistakenly believe it is illegal. > > WTF. it is illegal in indiana. Mistaken my ass. > > IC 35-45-1-4 > Flag desecration > Sec. 4. (a) A person who knowingly or intentionally mutilates, defaces, burns, or tramples any United States flag, standard, or ensign commits flag desecration, a Class A misdemeanor. I’m embarrassed by the state in which I currently reside (as far as this goes, anyway). The thing is, like many bad laws, it seems that it either won’t be enforced or, though I have no evidence of this, only selectively enforced. I base this observation solely on the case of [Megan Lawson](http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=11894). Has anyone, at any time, every been charged with desecration of the flag (in IN, that is)? If not, the law is literally just a stain on the law books that helped get some politician(s) elected. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/15 "2005-02-19T15:44:03Z")
Although the law remains on the books in Indiana and other states, it is not enforceable. The reason is that the Supreme Court, in _Texas v. Johnson_ and _US v. Eichman_, ruled that such laws are inconsistent with the First Amendment. So it is a mistake, although perhaps an understandable one, to believe flag burning is prohibited. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/16 "2005-02-19T16:44:53Z")
I’m not so sure this is much different from the past. I seem to recall such surveys in the 1930’s, 40’s and 50’s saying much the same thing, and not just about high school students. I think it has always been true that people often don’t agree with the principles of the Bill of Rights if they are presented with a statement of the individual rights specifically protected by the first 10 amendments and not told that they are from the Constitution. For many people the principle that the MAJORITY RULES is absolute and if the MAJORITY thinks that certain ideas should not be expressed in public, then that settles it. They are out - period. ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/17 "2005-02-19T20:59:51Z")
While sorting through some government documents in the NYS library I worked in I came across a magazine for state troopers. actually, some hundred and fifty of them from the 60’s. In their blotter they occasionally had “hippies” (ha, it was funny seeing them officially call them that) who were fined $50 for having the flag sewn upside down on their coat or other such desecration. They were also forced to remove the flag from their clothing. In one case, the flag was confiscated and taken into police custody. There was one other interesting 1st amendment related case in that magazine. While passing a police station a teen yelled “OOOOIINNNNKK!” out the window (though I think the police just described it as the sound of a pig). He was pulled over and fined, what for, I do not know. I was thinking about posting this right after I found them but forgot about it… would anyone know why the police were able to treat those citizens in that manner? What happened to make it so they are they not able to now? _are_ they able to still? ---
**Author:** ![clayton\_e](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@clayton\_e](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clayton_e)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/18 "2005-02-19T21:01:05Z")
I could probably find and scan an example at some point in time when I’m not busy. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/19 "2005-02-19T23:59:19Z")
> [@clayton\_e](#): > > would anyone know why the police were able to treat those citizens in that manner? What happened to make it so they are they not able to now? _are_ they able to still? Well, there was a war on, don’tcha know? ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/20 "2005-02-20T00:04:05Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Well, there was a war on, don’tcha know? Yes, it’s amazing how far that rationale can be taken. We’re so lucky that _that_ hasn’t changed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778.md?page=2)