# Majority HS students say newspapers should not publish w/o gov't approval **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 18, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778 "2005-02-18T19:57:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/21 "2005-02-20T16:13:52Z")
I remember that back in the 1960’s or early 1970’s one group tried getting citizens to sign copies of the _Bill of Rights_ to show their support for its principles. I don’t remember the statistics, but people just didn’t want to go along with such liberal ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/22 "2005-02-20T21:16:04Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I remember that back in the 1960’s or early 1970’s one group tried getting citizens to sign copies of the _Bill of Rights_ to show their support for its principles. I don’t remember the statistics, but people just didn’t want to go along with such liberal ideas. An incident like that was cited in Irving Wallace’s cheesy novel _The R Document_, except the study was to see if passers-by would sign a copy of the Declaration of Independence. I’m assuming Wallace was reporting a real study, since so much of the novel was exposition-heavy, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/23 "2005-02-20T21:35:35Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > And nearly 20% think Americans should be prohibited from expressing unpopular opinions. Some day we’ll pass a law to take care of people like those 20% :mad: ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/24 "2005-02-21T18:09:07Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > As a high school student who lied on surveys like this because I thought it was funny I don’t take any of these surveys at face value. What sort of criteria to you use to judge a survey’s methods when you are studying the results? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/25 "2005-02-21T18:28:36Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > What sort of criteria to you use to judge a survey’s methods when you are studying the results? For a haphazard survey probably no particular analysis is used. For good surveys there is considerable work and pre-survey testing of the questions and their possible answers. Psycholgists are used to formulate questions, often using multiple, differently worded questions about the same subject just to catch lying. The people who design surveys weren’t _all_ born yesterday as some here seem to think. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/26 "2005-02-21T18:34:01Z")
Huh. Not to mention, how many of you changed your political views drastically from age 15 to age 25 or 30? ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/27 "2005-02-21T20:25:38Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > The people who design surveys weren’t _all_ born yesterday as some here seem to think. Indeed. The claim that one could lie on surveys _and_ not take them at face value is intriguing to me. They would seem to be two practices that should prove to be difficult to reconcile. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/28 "2005-02-23T08:14:55Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > Indeed. The claim that one could lie on surveys _and_ not take them at face value is intriguing to me. They would seem to be two practices that should prove to be difficult to reconcile. I’m confused. Are you saying its hard to believe that people could lie on a survey and then think that survey isn’t trustworthy? ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/29 "2005-02-23T13:57:31Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I’m confused. Are you saying its hard to believe that people could lie on a survey and then think that survey isn’t trustworthy? No, I’m saying that disregarding survey results because one is a liar is merely one more form of taking surveys at face value. “People lie on surveys, therefore they are no good,” is a wonderful example of taking surveys at face value. Not taking surveys at face value would mean learning about the sample methods, the survey methods, and going throught the questions to search for bias and deceit detection. It would mean taking the time and making the effort to find out how the researchers dealt with the fact that there are people who give inaccurate replies, intentionally or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/30 "2005-02-23T14:41:15Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > “People lie on surveys, therefore they are no good,” is a wonderful example of taking surveys at face value. No. That would be a wonderful example of people NOT taking them at face value. I think you’re confused as to the meaning of the phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/31 "2005-02-23T14:51:05Z")
It’s interesting that 75% mistakenly think that flag burning is currently illegal. However, this seems to be the most alarming thing in this survey. It’s certainly not unusual for high school students to be mistaken about something. Aren’t there regularly studies where they can’t find Iraq/France/Canada on a map? I don’t think it’s shocking or surprising to see that 36% think that newspapers should get government approval of a story. There isn’t much context here. Certainly I don’t think that **all** newspapers should have to get approval for **all** stories. But, embedded journalists in Iraq should IMO. The first thing that comes to mind looking at this study is the recent shooting of the wounded Iraqi in a mosque by US troops. That journalist was an irresponsible jackass for releasing that tape. What he did borders on treason. It’s bad actions such as this that lead people (even high school students) to lose respect for the media and want more controls on them. Can anybody get a link to the actual study with the wording of the questions? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/32 "2005-02-23T15:24:00Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > No. That would be a wonderful example of people NOT taking them at face value. I think you’re confused as to the meaning of the phrase. Thank you, I thought I was losing my mind for a second there. ---
**Author:** ![js\_africanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/87869e/32.png) [@js\_africanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/js_africanus)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/33 "2005-02-23T15:58:16Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > No. That would be a wonderful example of people NOT taking them at face value. I think you’re confused as to the meaning of the phrase. From what I can find, it means, inter alia, the apparent worth as opposed to the real worth, which is pretty close to my understanding of the term as considering something superficially. This is distinct from other acceptable definitions, such as the value of a security written on it which is unrelated to market price. So thinking that surveys are bunk because some people lie on them certainly qualifies as judging them on characteristics one considers to be obvious, or that one considers to be true without finding out whether such is the case. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778/34 "2005-02-23T18:53:47Z")
> [@js\_africanus](#): > > So thinking that surveys are bunk because some people lie on them certainly qualifies as judging them on characteristics one considers to be obvious, or that one considers to be true without finding out whether such is the case. Sort of. But, not quite. The portion of the term that you seem to be mis-understanding is “_taking them_ at face value.” This would translate to mean “_accepting_ them at face value” or “_agreeing with_ them at face value”. You’ve inverted this. You are _disagreing_ with something based on face value. This could maybe be called “rejecting them at face value”. Although, the far more common expression is “taking them at face value” which actually means the opposite of your intended point. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-hs-students-say-newspapers-should-not-publish-w-o-govt-approval/290778.md?page=1)