# Majority Opposed To Teaching Arabic Numerals **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 14, 2019, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975 "2019-05-14T22:38:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mandala](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mandala/32/95_2.png) [@mandala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mandala)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/21 "2019-05-15T01:23:14Z")
In the spirit of fighting ignorance (and bigotry): the numbers you use everyday are [Hindu numerals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu%E2%80%93Arabic_numeral_system), not Arabic, though the sheikhs get all the credit. Not that it matters to those who oppose it, but at least give blame where it is due. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/22 "2019-05-15T01:28:12Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > I, myself, am a bit slow reading them… II, complex calculations (such as multiplication and division) can be extremely cumbersome. III, they don’t handle fractions or decimal numbers well. IV, the numeral one can be easily mistaken for the English-language first person singular personal pronoun. V… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/23 "2019-05-15T03:26:04Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > This was just some bull shit tactic to get people to imply: “Muslims are bad. Mmmkay?” Exposing bigots is never bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/24 "2019-05-15T04:10:27Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Exposing bigots is never bullshit. Its just a bullshit gotcha poll that exposes ignorance more than anything else. Here’s a classic clip from the man show where multiple women sign a petition to end women suffrage, same sort of thing. [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y0TgCgdvJ2c](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y0TgCgdvJ2c) ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/25 "2019-05-15T04:21:20Z")
This poll doesn’t expose bigotry in any meaningful way- suppose,as many respondents believed, “Arabic numerals” really did refer to an existing alternate Arabic number system- I would answer no to that question as well without any anti Muslim bias, simply on the basis that it wouldn’t be a useful enough discipline to devote time towards in an already crowded curriculum Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/26 "2019-05-15T04:48:15Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Obviously people prefer Roman numerals. I, myself, am a bit slow reading them… I couldn’t remember the Roman numerals for 51, 6, and 500. I’m LIVID. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/27 "2019-05-15T07:28:37Z")
> [@Bootis](#): > > This poll doesn’t expose bigotry in any meaningful way- suppose,as many respondents believed, “Arabic numerals” really did refer to an existing alternate Arabic number system- I would answer no to that question as well without any anti Muslim bias, simply on the basis that it wouldn’t be a useful enough discipline to devote time towards in an already crowded curriculum That’s what I’m leaning towards. While I’m sure a good number of folks said “no” just because of the word “Arabic” in there, what would a poll about learning “Hindu numerals” or “Japanese numerals” or “Thai numerals” look like? I think with a “control” group like that, it’d be more instructive to be able to tease out simple ignorance of the term “Arabic numerals” to bias (which I do believe exists in this poll–it’s just that without any point of reference, I can’t tell from this poll how extreme it is). On its own, this poll doesn’t tell me much other than the average person didn’t pay attention in school. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/28 "2019-05-15T08:46:48Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I couldn’t remember the Roman numerals for 51, 6, and 500. I’m LIVID. Easy: LI VI D Oh, OK, now I get your point, **Johnny**. Let’s face it, the only place I get to use this knowledge is in the Game Room, in the “Count to a Million” thread. Slurking away into the shadows… ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/29 "2019-05-15T10:11:24Z")
[Drilling a bit deeper](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D6VWB34W4AAjYhe.png:large) into that poll: Question: Should schools in America teach Arabic Numerals as part of the curriculum? Politically, do you consider yourself more of a: _Republican:_ 17% Yes, 72% No, 11% No Opinion _Democrat:_ 40% Yes, 34% No, 26% _Independent:_ 31% Yes, 57% No, 12% No Opinion ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/30 "2019-05-15T12:29:32Z")
Just curious, how many of you are aware that in some Arabic countries, they do use a different set of Arabic numerals. > **[Eastern Arabic numerals](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Arabic_numerals)** > > The Eastern Arabic numerals, also called Arabic-Hindu numerals or Indo–Arabic numerals, are the symbols used to represent numerical digits in conjunction with the Arabic alphabet in the countries of the Mashriq (the east of the Arab world), the Arabian Peninsula, and its variant in other countries that use the Persian numerals on the Iranian plateau and in Asia. > The numeral system originates from an ancient Indian numeral system, which was re-introduced during the Islamic Golden Age in the book ... A while back, I saw an Egyptian market trader using Eastern Arabic numerals on a scratchpad, so I can confirm (well, one data point) that they’re actually in use. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/31 "2019-05-15T12:44:11Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Maybe I articulated it poorly. It’s just a shady way to get people to admit to their own prejudices. I see nothing “shady” about it. It’s a straightforward question that anyone with a modicum of education should be able to understand and, if they don’t, they should have the sense to ask for clarification of the term “Arabic numerals”. The fact that the 56% didn’t indicates that they jumped to a conclusion based on prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/32 "2019-05-15T13:17:55Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I see nothing “shady” about it. It’s a straightforward question that anyone with a modicum of education should be able to understand and, if they don’t, they should have the sense to ask for clarification of the term “Arabic numerals”. The fact that the 56% didn’t indicates that they jumped to a conclusion based on prejudice. It doesn’t indicate anything about prejudice. Is prejudice one of the reasons people would jump to that conclusion? Of course- but another reason is simply that people assumed Arabic numerals referred to a different number system than what we use, because if you’re not familiar with the term, it would sound like it’s a different number system than what we use. It’s a worthless poll because there’s no way to determine the breakdown of the respondents’ reasoning. There are much more accurate ways to gauge the extent of prejudice that don’t require reaching conclusions based on multiple assumptions, and polls like this do more damage than good in the fight against bigotry ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/33 "2019-05-15T13:56:27Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I see nothing “shady” about it. It’s a straightforward question that anyone with a modicum of education should be able to understand and, if they don’t, they should have the sense to ask for clarification of the term “Arabic numerals”. The fact that the 56% didn’t indicates that they jumped to a conclusion based on prejudice. Now your assumptions/prejudices are showing. Do you really think that everyone with a “modicum of education” would answer the context-free question: “tell me about Arabic numerals” would say “oh, those are just the numbers we use every day!” ? My guess would be that most Americans, have no idea what Arabic numerals are. Do you really think that every person who doesn’t know off-hand what Arabic numerals are is an idiot? Do you really think, as **pulykamell** asked, that if the question had asked about “Norse numerals” or “Mongolian numerals” that “56% No” number would have changed meaningfully towards “Yes”? I don’t argue that there are prejudices that likely affect the numbers in this poll, but it’s ridiculous to draw the conclusion “most Americans are prejudiced!!!” from this data. Let me be clear, it may be that most Americans are prejudiced, but this poll is not evidence of that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/34 "2019-05-15T14:04:34Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Do you really think that everyone with a “modicum of education” would answer the context-free question: “tell me about Arabic numerals” would say “oh, those are just the numbers we use every day!” ? My guess would be that most Americans, have no idea what Arabic numerals are. What Arabic numerals and Roman numerals are, is taught in elementary school. If you went to elementary school, you will know what Arabic numerals and Roman numerals are. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/35 "2019-05-15T14:11:58Z")
I don’t remember I ever being taught in school that our numbers are specifically called Arabic numbers, certainly not in a way that stressed that terminology in the way “Roman numerals” were Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/36 "2019-05-15T14:14:50Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > What Arabic numerals and Roman numerals are, is taught in elementary school. If you went to elementary school, you will know what Arabic numerals and Roman numerals are. I think you have way too much faith in the ability of the average person to remember the name of our number system. Roman numerals we remember because they’re different. The one we use day-to-day, I bet the average person on the street would not know they are called Arabic numerals. ---
**Author:** ![Bootis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Bootis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootis)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/37 "2019-05-15T14:20:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I think you have way too much faith in the ability of the average person to remember the name of our number system. Roman numerals we remember because they’re different. The one we use day-to-day, I bet the average person on the street would not know they are called Arabic numerals. Agreed, which may be the only thing this poll does confirm, though it could also just be another flaw in the poll, in that an unknown % of the respondents may have known full well what Arabic numbers are and just don’t think math should be part of the curriculum ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/38 "2019-05-15T14:31:53Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > What Arabic numerals and Roman numerals are, is taught in elementary school. If you went to elementary school, you will know what Arabic numerals and Roman numerals are. If I had a list of all the stuff I was supposed to have learned 30 years ago, plus all the stuff I did learn and forgot, I’d have a pretty long list. I don’t remember what games we played with the parachute in gym class either. Considering that at best the “history of numerals and our counting system” is likely to have been a brief comment/footnote in a history/social studies curriculum in grade school, and possibly a similarly brief call-out box or paragraph in a world history class in high school, and considering that this bit of historical trivia has likely no reason to be recalled after that one Wednesday afternoon freshman year, of course lots of people don’t know what they are. If it was ever learned, it was quickly forgotten. 99.9% of the English-speaking world just calls them “numbers” on a regular basis. “Arabic numerals” is a term people pull out at pub trivia. In fact, the answer to this poll shows 100% that you are wrong. I’m sure all the respondents to this poll went through elementary school, and 56% percent of them (at least) clearly did not know that Arabic numerals means “normal numbers”. So your statement: “If you went to elementary school, you will know what Arabic numerals and Roman numerals are.” is clearly untrue. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/39 "2019-05-15T14:38:29Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > I don’t remember what games we played with the parachute in gym class either. The students would hold the perimeter of the parachute, and wave it up and down in unison. One student would try to run under it before it came down. Also, a red rubber ball (the ones you bounced and caught in rhythm with the ‘Bounce, and bounce, and bounce, and catch!’ music) would be put on the parachute, and kids would move it around. > [@Eonwe](#): > > So your statement: “If you went to elementary school, you will know what Arabic numerals and Roman numerals are.” is clearly untrue. I should have said ‘should know’. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2019, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975/40 "2019-05-15T14:43:26Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > II, complex calculations (such as multiplication and division) can be extremely cumbersome. > III, they don’t handle fractions or decimal numbers well. > IV, the numeral one can be easily mistaken for the English-language first person singular personal pronoun. > V… V, Hi Opal! VI, Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/majority-opposed-to-teaching-arabic-numerals/833975.md?page=3)