# Make a case \*for\* hair metal **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 28, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024 "2010-05-28T02:48:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/61 "2010-05-28T22:38:51Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > Can you provide a link? That’d be cool as fuck to listen to. I wish I still had a copy. This was recorded back in 87 or 88. I lost it in a house fire in 2000. Slee ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/62 "2010-05-28T22:56:16Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Note to self: every genre of music–or any artform–has aficionados who are unwilling to brook any discussion that’s not awed, unqualified praise. My bad, I knew that. Moving on. …aaand there’s always a dick who thinks he is better than you. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2010, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/63 "2010-05-29T02:39:56Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Note to self: every genre of music–or any artform–has aficionados who are unwilling to brook any discussion that’s not awed, unqualified praise. My bad, I knew that. Moving on. > [@Darth\_Nader](#): > > …aaand there’s always a dick who thinks he is better than you. Anyone who wishes to make it personal – please don’t. Thanks, **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator ---
**Author:** ![FallingLeaves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/54ee81/32.png) [@FallingLeaves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallingLeaves)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/64 "2010-06-01T03:02:56Z")
> [@MTCicero](#): > > Yet, to my ears, at least, there’s a hell of a lot of it that ain’t all that bad. First off, a surprising number of the players are quite accomplished on their chosen instrument; the vocals (leads and harmony) were pleasingly soaring a great deal of the time; and their ability to produce a catchy, pure pop tune is certainly nothing to be sneezed at. > > So. What say we try to turn public sentiment around on one of the most reviled of recent musical genres (because, damn it, it’s mook rock that _really_ deserves all the raspberries) by posting exemplary examples of the genre? This just screams out for a little Def Leppard, doesn’t it? [Photograph](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZ5bS3_BCDs) [Hysteria](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Scc38k0eEyU) ---
**Author:** ![BaneSidhe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c5a1d2/32.png) [@BaneSidhe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BaneSidhe)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/65 "2010-06-01T04:09:19Z")
Bless you, **FallingLeaves**! ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/66 "2010-06-01T06:10:18Z")
> [@BaneSidhe](#): > > Bless you, **FallingLeaves**! Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/67 "2010-06-01T13:00:14Z")
Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/68 "2010-06-01T13:29:14Z")
Shit, **Darth** , don’t apologize. Rules be damned, that might be my favorite post so far in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/69 "2010-06-01T15:44:21Z")
Just because it’s true, doesn’t mean it wasn’t out of line. I’m really bad at seeing when I’m a dick, and it helps when someone tells me. Back on topic-- Steve Vai worked over the phone with PiL and we got “Album” [Rise](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzNjmIWbns4) [Ease](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cf0K6tZz0Ro) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/70 "2010-06-01T16:22:40Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I’ve always wondered about two bands and whether they fit into hair metal. > > First one being GNR, mentioned earlier in the thread. If hair metal as a genre is considered to be mostly about sex and cocaine, GNR was S&M and heroin. But they sure did look the part, at least at first–once Axl straightened out his hair, they were a little less glammy. The music seemed just a little bit heavier and harder-hitting, albeit just as catchy. I have a hard time categorizing them as hair metal, but I don’t know what else they’d be. > > The other is Van Halen. Campy showmanship, great pop tunes, but they weren’t so much with the eye makeup and the Aquanet. And although I’m not a guitarist, I’ve heard good things about that Eddie Van Halen dude. Musically I think there is little difference between “Hard Rock” and “Hair Metal”. I would characterize Hair Metal as a specific subgenre of Hard Rock - flamboyant, guitar driven songs about sex, drugs and rock and rolls played/sung by tall, lanky dudes with long hair and an in your face attitude. The “case” for Hair Metal is that it was basically the ultimate evolution of guitar driven Hard Rock, tracing it’s genetic origins back to Led Zeppelin. Like the dinosaur, it ruled it’s era. Also like the dinosaur, it could no longer evolve and was out-competed by punk-decended alternative/indie rock. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/71 "2010-06-01T17:02:24Z")
I love much of the hair metal, but the one thing that gets on my nerves about it is how they have to sing the chorus, well, in chorus with each other. That’s too poppy for me. ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/72 "2010-06-01T17:40:39Z")
Let’s not forget that the 80’s hair metal scene was the first genre largely driven by visual appeal, namely MTV which launched in '81. Once it got going, appearance mattered as much as the song, if not more so. I would consider the late 90’s boy bands and even Britney Spears and such the evolutionary descendants of 80s hair metal groups. Different music styles to be sure, but still slickly polished pop where appearance and style matter more than music. I think the term “hair metal” is a dismissive term for the crappy, style over substance pop-rock of the 80s. I wouldn’t put GnR, Metallica, VH, Slayer,or anyone like that in that group at all. I wouldn’t consider any hair metal band good, since to me the term is negative. There were certainly good bands (or at least good songs) in the 80’s pop metal movement, but when you say hair metal, that means it’s crap, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![MTCicero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@MTCicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MTCicero)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/73 "2010-06-01T19:57:25Z")
> [@jk1245](#): > > I think the term “hair metal” is a dismissive term for the crappy, style over substance pop-rock of the 80s. I wouldn’t put GnR, Metallica, VH, Slayer,or anyone like that in that group at all. I wouldn’t consider any hair metal band good, since to me the term is negative. There were certainly good bands (or at least good songs) in the 80’s pop metal movement, but when you say hair metal, that means it’s crap, IMHO. Interesting point. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/74 "2010-06-01T20:12:00Z")
> [@jk1245](#): > > I think the term “hair metal” is a dismissive term for the crappy, style over substance pop-rock of the 80s. I wouldn’t put GnR, Metallica, VH, Slayer,or anyone like that in that group at all. I wouldn’t consider any hair metal band good, since to me the term is negative. There were certainly good bands (or at least good songs) in the 80’s pop metal movement, but when you say hair metal, that means it’s crap, IMHO. I don’t think anybody in their right mind would ever classify Metallica or Slayer as “hair metal.” GnR and Van Halen come a little closer, and perhaps there can be an argument made for putting them in this category, but, to me, Motley Crue, Poison, Warrant, Cinderella, Winger, etc., would be the prime examples of “hair metal.” You are correct in that the word is normally used in an unflattering manner, so if you want to use a more neutral term, “glam metal” might perhaps be the one you’re looking for to describe many of the “hair metal” bands in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/75 "2010-06-01T20:26:38Z")
\*\*jk1245 \*\*, I would agree with everything you said, as well as add that “hair metal” was also somewhat of a cultural phenomenon as much as “grunge” was in the early 90s. When I showed my girlfriend my HS yearbook (class of 91) she is somewhat shocked by the preponderance of mullets and feathered big hair and earings (on men and women). Basically, yearbook photos were taken right before the transition from everyone dressing like Jon Bon Jovi and Lita Ford to dressing like Eddie Vedder and Alanis Morissette. If I were to lay out the following 80s bands on a continuum, where would one define the boundary between “hair metal”, “kick ass hard rock” and “heavy metal”? **\** Cinderella Skid Row Warrant Whitesnake Bon Jovi Poison Dokken KISS RATT Motley Crue Def Leppard Van Halen Guns & Rose Quiet Riot AC/DC Judas Priest Iron Maiden Black Sabbath **\** > [@lissener](#): > > Note to self: every genre of music–or any artform–has aficionados who are unwilling to brook any discussion that’s not awed, unqualified praise. My bad, I knew that. Moving on. Also note that no matter how awesome your favorite band is right now, in 5-10 years it will be incredibly lame. But in another 5-10 years it will be retro awesome again. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/76 "2010-06-01T21:07:32Z")
> [@jk1245](#): > > Let’s not forget that the 80’s hair metal scene was the first genre largely driven by visual appeal, namely MTV which launched in '81. Once it got going, appearance mattered as much as the song, if not more so. What about the whole new wave thing? Duran Duran, The Human League, Eurythmics, Adam Ant, Men Without Hats, Devo… There was clearly an MTV look that folks were into before Quiet Riot and Twisted Sister showed up. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/77 "2010-06-01T21:11:27Z")
> [@Darth\_Nader](#): > > What about the whole new wave thing? Duran Duran, The Human League, Eurythmics, Adam Ant, Men Without Hats, Devo… > > There was clearly an MTV look that folks were into before Quiet Riot and Twisted Sister showed up. New Wave was more of a commercialization of 70s Punk Rock. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/78 "2010-06-01T21:20:52Z")
Sure, but they were much quicker in adapting to video than the heavy metal folks. Sorry, getting off-topic here. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/79 "2010-06-02T01:30:17Z")
Re: **msmith537** ’s list Move Cinderella down a bit, Skid Row way down, Warrant up some, Poison way up, Crue either up or down depending on which album, and finish it off by putting Pretty Boy Floyd into the upper stratosphere of “More Hairband”. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024/80 "2010-06-02T01:39:49Z")
Many New Wave bands are examples what I said when my brother said that Duran Duran were just posers: “well, you can be posers _and_ be good at the same time”. (If by poser you mean someone for whom appearance is just as or more important than the music, rather than someone for whom appearance is more important than the music and also lack musical talent.) But nearly all hair metal bands were posers _without_ talent, to an even greater degree than suggested by Sturgeon’s Law. (Some bands that happened to have long hair were not hair bands, such as GnR, and so do not belong in this genre. I’m not a big GnR fan but have to admit they have talent. And some hair bands had a couple of good songs, like Def Leppard and the Crue, even if the majority of their songs have no redeeming qualities.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/make-a-case-for-hair-metal/541024.md?page=5)